Please rate these cushions

[CJ2008]

Please help me figure out if either of these sound good...and if one sounds better than the other! Thanks in advance.

Stone #1:

GIA cert:
1.14 carat, E, VS1
Excellent Polish/Excellent Symmetry
no F
6.39 x 6.01 x 3.91 mm,
Table 56%
Depth 65.1%
m-vthk girdle

Sarin: 1.146 carat
6.04 L x 6.38 W x 3.92 mm
Table 56.3%, Depth 64.9%
Girdle 4.9%
Crown angle 39.7
Crown height 17.6
Pavilion angle 38.8
Pavilion depth 42.3

Stone #2:

GIA cert: 1.04 carat, D, VS1
VG Polish/VG Symmetry
no F
6.39 x 6.13 x 3.71 mm
Table 60.5
Depth 60%
m-thk girdle

Sarin:
1.04 carat
6.12 W x 6.38 L x 3.72 mm
Girdle: 3.5 %
Table: 60.5%
Crown Angle: 37.6
Crown Height: 15%
Pavilion Angle: 36.8%
Pavilion Depth: 40.8%

 

[belle]

just like any other fancy shape where the facet pattern can vary greatly between stones, cushions really need to be seen for better evaluation.
that said, i would probably take my chances on #1

 

[CJ2008]

Belle, thanks...can you tell me a little bit more about why #1 draws your eye more? Also, I am attaching the facet pattern on #1...does that tell you anything further in your opinion?

 

[neatfreak]

Belle is right, numbers don't tell you hardly anything about how a cushion will look in person.

#1 looks a bit nicer because usually you want the depth about mid 60's and the table mid 50's. That gives it the nice pillowy looking cushion top. But really, I highly recommend that you AT LEAST get pictures of these stones before you go any further.

ETA: The plot really tells you nothing other than that it is not a modified. Could look like an antique stone, could look modern like mine, you really have no idea what the facets will look like at all.

 

[CJ2008]

Thanks Neatfreak...I''m a little hesitant to admit I actually saw both of these in person, but at different places...and I still find it very difficult to gage whether one was nicer than the other...so I''m trying to go back to the #s to get some objectivity...especially because it was also difficult to see any nuances/differences between them.

As a side note, what exactly would I looking for in the pictures? To get an idea of how the pattern makes the stone look, or other more specific things?

I know from reading on this forum that #s tell you nothing...so in a way I''m using them as an anchor...

 

[belle]

as neatfreak said, the numbers are a little more ''by the book'' and that''s all we have to go by now.

also, even though the differences between ''excellent'' and ''very good'' in polish/symmetry may be negligable, i give extra weight to the fact that the cutter took time with the stone and did the best he could with the product. you don''t put some great angles on a stone and then leave p/s with only ''very good'' and vice versa.

 

[CJ2008]

Belle, the point you made about polish/symmetry makes perfect sense...I had never thought about it from that perspective before.

 

[belle]

Date: 5/15/2007 12:35:00 PM
Author: claudinam
Belle, the point you made about polish/symmetry makes perfect sense...I had never thought about it from that perspective before.

it''s another one of those little things that can at least help break a tie.

 

[elmo]

Date: 5/15/2007 12:00:04 PM
Author: neatfreak
ETA: The plot really tells you nothing other than that it is not a modified. Could look like an antique stone, could look modern like mine, you really have no idea what the facets will look like at all.

I may disagree, I thought that most of the ex/ex stones with this faceting are "DanielK"-style/DDM like your stone and have a fairly consistent look, excellent performance, and do not resemble an antique.

 

[boston_jeff]

Date: 5/15/2007 12:43:33 PM
Author: elmo

Date: 5/15/2007 12:00:04 PM

Author: neatfreak

ETA: The plot really tells you nothing other than that it is not a modified. Could look like an antique stone, could look modern like mine, you really have no idea what the facets will look like at all.

I may disagree, I thought that most of the ex/ex stones with this faceting are ''DanielK''-style/DDM like your stone and have a fairly consistent look, excellent performance, and do not resemble an antique.

I concur

. Stone #1, as an Ex/Ex with that facet plot, will be a modern looking stone similar to Neatfreak''s. I also like the numbers of #1 better (spread between table and depth, higher crown angle/crown height).

 

[neatfreak]

It may be a modern looking stone, but even the modern ones can have vastly different face up plots depending on the facet arrangements. For example, MMM's or MoreMoreMore's cushions don't really look anything like mine, and neither does bargaincrazys. I might be wrong, but I think all of them are the same plot as mine.

My point is that they might look different and that she should get pictures. I don't think anyone would disagree there!

 

[boston_jeff]

Date: 5/15/2007 2:52:10 PM
Author: neatfreak
It may be a modern looking stone, but even the modern ones can have vastly different face up plots depending on the facet arrangements. For example, MMM''s or MoreMoreMore''s cushions don''t really look anything like mine, and neither does bargaincrazys. I might be wrong, but I think all of them are the same plot as mine.


My point is that they might look different and that she should get pictures. I don''t think anyone would disagree there!

Of course not, pictures would be very helpful... I think the thing that changes modern cushions'' appearance more than anything else is the L/W ratio...

I think you should try to see both of them in person with as little time in between as possible. Are these both traditional B&M''s?

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/15/2007 12:43:33 PM
Author: elmo

Date: 5/15/2007 12:00:04 PM
Author: neatfreak
ETA: The plot really tells you nothing other than that it is not a modified. Could look like an antique stone, could look modern like mine, you really have no idea what the facets will look like at all.

I may disagree, I thought that most of the ex/ex stones with this faceting are ''DanielK''-style/DDM like your stone and have a fairly consistent look, excellent performance, and do not resemble an antique.

As of now... The plots/sketches used by laboratories to ID Cushion Shape faceting arrangement and types are not doing a good.

Not to mention the appearance!!!!

When it commes to Cushions.... its all a guessing game!

You NEED to see the stone.

 

[elmo]

Date: 5/15/2007 3:44:29 PM
Author: DiaGem
The plots/sketches used by laboratories to ID Cushion Shape faceting arrangement and types are not doing a good.

Not to mention the appearance!!!!

When it commes to Cushions.... its all a guessing game!

You NEED to see the stone.

No disagreement with any of those statements!

Take a look at the inside back cover of the Rapaport magazine that just arrived. I think that's what a lot of these ex/ex stones look like.

 

[CJ2008]

Elmo, how do I get my hands on that magazine?

 

[neatfreak]

I don't know how to get your hands on the magazine, but run a search for Daniel K cushions on here and that's what they look like.

Mine is one:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/more-pics-w-fire-of-my-cushion-for-cehra-the-investigator.60856/


ETA: Here is a thread about Daniek K cushions. Scroll down a bit and you will see pictures:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/daniel-k-cushion.19309/

 

[elmo]

Funny looking back at that old DanielK link NeatFreak where Todd at niceice talks about BN and restricted online listings, saying that anyone could source the stones. Three years later, it sortof looks like BN addressed this "problem" because I've recently asked my favorite dealer (Gary Dutton) about sourcing something there, and he's been unable to see it even on the trade lists.

p.s. claudinam, it was a pointer for DG - a (mostly) trade publication.

 

[EAT]

I don''t know if mine is a DanielK cushion, but mine has the same facet pattern that you posted above and is a modern cushion brilliant, also ex/ex. I prefer #1 over #2.

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/16/2007 4:45:02 PM
Author: elmo
Funny looking back at that old DanielK link NeatFreak where Todd at niceice talks about BN and restricted online listings, saying that anyone could source the stones. Three years later, it sortof looks like BN addressed this ''problem'' because I''ve recently asked my favorite dealer (Gary Dutton) about sourcing something there, and he''s been unable to see it even on the trade lists.

p.s. claudinam, it was a pointer for DG - a (mostly) trade publication.

Thanks elmo,

Not only DDM cuts and polishes ex/ex cushions....
would you believe i have seen a (rare) few Antique cut Gems that were rated Ex/Ex by major Labs...

 

[yellowsparkles]

Date: 5/15/2007 12:12:46 PM
Author: claudinam
Thanks Neatfreak...I''m a little hesitant to admit I actually saw both of these in person, but at different places...and I still find it very difficult to gage whether one was nicer than the other...so I''m trying to go back to the #s to get some objectivity...especially because it was also difficult to see any nuances/differences between them.

As a side note, what exactly would I looking for in the pictures? To get an idea of how the pattern makes the stone look, or other more specific things?

I know from reading on this forum that #s tell you nothing...so in a way I''m using them as an anchor...

You really cant go by the facet plot to determine the look of the stone. You really have to use your eyes. Have you looked up "cushions'' in the search thread? There are a few very good discussions about facet patterns vs. actual look. Do you want a pillowy cushion or a modern? More square or rectangular? Culet and how big? Boston Jeff, Cehra, Neatfreak, Scott00 and many many more..... There are a lot of beautiful cushions on this site

I guess my advice is to determine what "kind" of cushion you want and then it may be easier to decide on a stone.

 

[CJ2008]

Thanks for all your pointers everyone. I can''t wait until the day I actually have MY own stone and ring to photograph and post here.

Neatfreak, you got your cushion from ERD, right?

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 5/16/2007 5:47:35 PM
Author: claudinam
Thanks for all your pointers everyone. I can''t wait until the day I actually have MY own stone and ring to photograph and post here.


Neatfreak, you got your cushion from ERD, right?

Yes, and Mark was wonderful. MoreMoreMore also did ultimately, and hers is absolutely incredible. Honestly, your best bet is to call Mark, tell him what you want (i.e., budget, modified or not, color, clarity, etc.) and have him do a search for you. He has built his reputation on cushions. He won''t steer you wrong. PLUS it will be a whole lot easier for you because he will do most of the work for you!

 

[CJ2008]

Neatfreak, thanks, I will...