Please help...

[LikaRok]

Let me start by saying I am aware that in most cases EGL-Israel certs are not always correct in terms of grading. I plan on having the dealer send this particular stone to AGS and my purchasing of the stone is contingent on the results. My question to everyone here is in terms of cut and such does the price agree with the specs assuming the EGL cert is correct in Clarity and Color. Please provide a price you feel the stone should cost and why if your opinion differs. Thank you very much in advance.

OK so heres the stone specs.


EGL2829268441
Sept 14, 2008
Princess Cut
.81 ct
clarity: vs1
color: E
5.04 x 4.98 x 3.89 mm
Total Depth: 78.1%
Table Width: 71.0%
Crown Height: 12.0%
Pavilion Depth: 64.0%
Girdle: MED POL
Polish: very good
Symm: very good
cutlet: none
Grain: very slight
Fluor: none

Two other stones i have been looking at are as follows

GIA2101933453
GIA2111883853

Thanks again.

 

[LikaRok]

Also wanted to add that this stone will be going into a Verragio setting ENG-0832p

 

[Todd Gray]

It is practically impossible for anybody, including myself as an experienced dealer, to tell you anything accurate about the cut quality (potential) of a princess cut diamond "by the numbers" because the data provided about the diamond on the lab report(s) is insufficient to that regard. There are two journal articles to this regard which I feel will be of interest to you:

Numbers and perception, the case of square cut diamonds from Price Scope journal.

The matter of depth in a princess cut diamond from Price Scope journal.

Without getting into great detail, there are two Crown angle measurements and two Pavilion angle measurements within the design of a princess cut diamond and the labs indicate only one. And then there is the matter of pavilion bulge which is another adventure all together.

I''m glad that you are sending the diamond to the AGS Laboratory for grading, I assume that you are sending it under the Platinum grading platform so that you obtain insight into the Diamond Cut Quality as well as the Light Performance?

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 4/19/2010 11:15:30 AM
Author:LikaRok
Let me start by saying I am aware that in most cases EGL-Israel certs are not always correct in terms of grading. I plan on having the dealer send this particular stone to AGS and my purchasing of the stone is contingent on the results. My question to everyone here is in terms of cut and such does the price agree with the specs assuming the EGL cert is correct in Clarity and Color. Please provide a price you feel the stone should cost and why if your opinion differs. Thank you very much in advance.

OK so heres the stone specs.


EGL2829268441
Sept 14, 2008
Princess Cut
.81 ct
clarity: vs1
color: E
5.04 x 4.98 x 3.89 mm
Total Depth: 78.1%
Table Width: 71.0%
Crown Height: 12.0%
Pavilion Depth: 64.0%
Girdle: MED POL
Polish: very good
Symm: very good
cutlet: none
Grain: very slight
Fluor: none

Two other stones i have been looking at are as follows

GIA2101933453
GIA2111883853

Thanks again.

Way too many unknowns.

First EGL E could most likely be GIA/AGS G or H.
Clarity who knows could be VS2 or SI1 even no idea.
Then price really changes with cut.

Some likely comparables:

A well cut comparable http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2300568.htm (99.9% likely to be a better cut and higher clarity)
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2273548.htm (H color which could be the same as the one considered and higher clarity as well)
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1276250.asp (G VS1 for $2500)

See even with GIA/AGS grading the price ranges 2500 to 4K+ based on cut and clarity.

 

[LikaRok]

I do plan on using the plat AGS cert to get information on the cut and light return of the stone. I know the diamond in person looks amazing however I am very aware of the grading issues associated with EGL international. I dont think im being unfair to ask the jeweler to send the diamond to AGS and my purchase of the stone being contingent on results do you guys? Thanks for the information. I would rather pay for a diamond i know is accurately graded and worth what im spending then a "deal" as i have already learned in the diamond world very rarely is there such a thing.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 4/19/2010 2:45:49 PM
Author: LikaRok
I do plan on using the plat AGS cert to get information on the cut and light return of the stone. I know the diamond in person looks amazing however I am very aware of the grading issues associated with EGL international. I dont think im being unfair to ask the jeweler to send the diamond to AGS and my purchase of the stone being contingent on results do you guys? Thanks for the information. I would rather pay for a diamond i know is accurately graded and worth what im spending then a ''deal'' as i have already learned in the diamond world very rarely is there such a thing.

I absolutely think it is fair, provided that you offer to pay for the report if the color and clarity are the same or better than the EGL report. That gives him an opportunity to tell you what he really thinks the diamond is for color and clarity before spending the money on the paper. If the price is good enough and the cut is to your liking, then the color and clarity are secondary. (As my friend Iro taught me years ago, quality is a cutting issue. Color and clarity are rarity issues and have great influence on the price, but beauty is determined primarily by cut.)

Wink

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/19/2010 2:45:49 PM
Author: LikaRok
I do plan on using the plat AGS cert to get information on the cut and light return of the stone. I know the diamond in person looks amazing however I am very aware of the grading issues associated with EGL international. I dont think im being unfair to ask the jeweler to send the diamond to AGS and my purchase of the stone being contingent on results do you guys? Thanks for the information. I would rather pay for a diamond i know is accurately graded and worth what im spending then a ''deal'' as i have already learned in the diamond world very rarely is there such a thing.

I think that is completely reasonable or just keep looking for a diamond which is already AGS0 graded.

 

[blingfling]

Incidentally, how does one send a stone to AGS for grading? I am looking to purchase a GIA triple EX stone, but have read that AGS currently has the strictest standards especially when it comes to cuts. Also, the stone is supposedly an H&A, but doesn''t not have reports that supports this claim. Would it be overstepping to ask the jeweller to send this stone to AGS for grading?

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 4/21/2010 2:42:14 AM
Author: blingfling
Incidentally, how does one send a stone to AGS for grading? I am looking to purchase a GIA triple EX stone, but have read that AGS currently has the strictest standards especially when it comes to cuts. Also, the stone is supposedly an H&A, but doesn''t not have reports that supports this claim. Would it be overstepping to ask the jeweller to send this stone to AGS for grading?

If I recall correctly, the AGS Laboratory will not accept gems direct from consumers for grading, so you will probably need to coordinate this with a member of the trade who is also a member of the AGS Laboratory. The primary difference between the GIA and AGS gemological laboratories is that the AGS has stricter criteria for their proportions rating and also offers an additional Light Performance grade via their Platinum grading platform.

Most gemological laboratories do not offer grading for the presence of Hearts & Arrows patterns, although recently the HRD Laboratory out of Belgium has begun to do so and the EGL has indicated whether diamonds are H&A or not based on their opinion - but I have often disagreed with their evaluation of such stones and therefore consider that rating to be a mute point. Of course, you can tell a lot about a diamond by looking at the diamond through a Hearts & Arrows viewing device yourself and comparing what you see to the photographs provided within the tutorials here on PS and on the web sites of various vendors.

 

[blingfling]

Thanks, Todd Gray, for the informative feedback. I am very much interested in the light performance included in the AGS grading system. But if you what you tell me is correct, and the vendor needs to be a member of AGS, then I guess the chances of having my stone-of-interest being graded by AGS is rather slim since the vendor is a small local vendor.

I am rather intrigued by your comment of gauging the quality of the h&a pattern myself. I was able to see if through the viewer and did observe a rather regular h&a. But the question is, can I trust myself since I don''t really look at diamonds on a daily basis? From what I''ve gathered in my readings, there are good and bad h&a cuts. Do you think that learning from the tutorials on this site will be sufficient?

 

[researcher]

I''m confused. Princesses do not have H&A, or I''ve really been gone a long time!