Please help with 2 emerald-cut ASET images...

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 3/18/2010 4:14:54 PM
Author: Karl_K
While I feel there are some problems with the ASET images the current setup is producing it is making the diamonds look worse than they really are so I'm not that worried about consumers being harmed.

These are both classic style EC's, large tables and most likely flat crowns(get the CH), fairly bright but not a lot of life due to the lack of med and small virtual facets.
It is the classic look and some people do love it.
Many prefer the more modern look with smaller tables and higher crowns.
For the classic type they both look pretty good with my preference being the first one as it has slightly better brightness potential if someone loves that type.

Okay then Karl,
You are the resident expert on step cuts on these forums so I respect your opinion far more than Lorelei.

So then lets say theoretically we run the sarin and its comes back these have a 9-10% crown height then what will you say?
Lets say it comes back 12% then what? Or lets say it comes back within the "ideal range" of 12 - 15% what then what should Lorelei tell the consumer who already looked at the stones and isnt' sure these are the best they can find?

Is the only purpose for running this sarin if it comes back below 10% you will say its a flat top and reject them?

I just don't get it.

The bigger problem on these forums is that you as a tradesmember can't comment on another vendor's stones so please do assume we are not talking about these particular stones just in general. The subjective judgement and person using this information will be Lorelei not from you.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/18/2010 4:52:17 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 4:14:54 PM
Author: Karl_K
While I feel there are some problems with the ASET images the current setup is producing it is making the diamonds look worse than they really are so I''m not that worried about consumers being harmed.

These are both classic style EC''s, large tables and most likely flat crowns(get the CH), fairly bright but not a lot of life due to the lack of med and small virtual facets.
It is the classic look and some people do love it.
Many prefer the more modern look with smaller tables and higher crowns.
For the classic type they both look pretty good with my preference being the first one as it has slightly better brightness potential if someone loves that type.

Okay then Karl,
You are the resident expert on step cuts on these forums so I respect your opinion far more than Lorelei.

So then lets say theoretically we run the sarin and its comes back these have a 9-10% crown height then what will you say?
Lets say it comes back 12% then what? Or lets say it comes back within the ''ideal range'' of 12 - 15% what then what should Lorelei tell the consumer who already looked at the stones and isnt'' sure these are the best they can find?

Is the only purpose for running this sarin if it comes back below 10% you will say its a flat top and reject them?

I just don''t get it.

The bigger problem on these forums is that you as a tradesmember can''t comment on another vendor''s stones so please do assume we are not talking about these particular stones just in general. The subjective judgement and person using this information will be Lorelei not from you.

CCL I know you are blunt and all, but this was very rude

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 4:52:17 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 4:14:54 PM
Author: Karl_K
While I feel there are some problems with the ASET images the current setup is producing it is making the diamonds look worse than they really are so I''m not that worried about consumers being harmed.

These are both classic style EC''s, large tables and most likely flat crowns(get the CH), fairly bright but not a lot of life due to the lack of med and small virtual facets.
It is the classic look and some people do love it.
Many prefer the more modern look with smaller tables and higher crowns.
For the classic type they both look pretty good with my preference being the first one as it has slightly better brightness potential if someone loves that type.

Okay then Karl,
You are the resident expert on step cuts on these forums so I respect your opinion far more than Lorelei.

That is absolutely as it SHOULD be CCL. Karl has worked for years on EC''s and other diamonds, you would do well to learn from him and listen to what he has to say.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/18/2010 4:56:26 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 4:52:17 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 4:14:54 PM
Author: Karl_K
While I feel there are some problems with the ASET images the current setup is producing it is making the diamonds look worse than they really are so I'm not that worried about consumers being harmed.

These are both classic style EC's, large tables and most likely flat crowns(get the CH), fairly bright but not a lot of life due to the lack of med and small virtual facets.
It is the classic look and some people do love it.
Many prefer the more modern look with smaller tables and higher crowns.
For the classic type they both look pretty good with my preference being the first one as it has slightly better brightness potential if someone loves that type.

Okay then Karl,
You are the resident expert on step cuts on these forums so I respect your opinion far more than Lorelei.

That is absolutely as it SHOULD be CCL. Karl has worked for years on EC's and other diamonds, you would do well to learn from him and listen to what he has to say.

I agree with you Lor, but CCL, I still think it was rude to be so flagrantly dismissing of Lorelei's opinion. It is disrespectful to the utmost. You can praise Karl without taking someone else down.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 4:52:17 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 4:14:54 PM
Author: Karl_K
While I feel there are some problems with the ASET images the current setup is producing it is making the diamonds look worse than they really are so I''m not that worried about consumers being harmed.

These are both classic style EC''s, large tables and most likely flat crowns(get the CH), fairly bright but not a lot of life due to the lack of med and small virtual facets.
It is the classic look and some people do love it.
Many prefer the more modern look with smaller tables and higher crowns.
For the classic type they both look pretty good with my preference being the first one as it has slightly better brightness potential if someone loves that type.

Okay then Karl,
You are the resident expert on step cuts on these forums so I respect your opinion far more than Lorelei.

So then lets say theoretically we run the sarin and its comes back these have a 9-10% crown height then what will you say?
Lets say it comes back 12% then what? Or lets say it comes back within the ''ideal range'' of 12 - 15% what then what should Lorelei tell the consumer who already looked at the stones and isnt'' sure these are the best they can find?

Is the only purpose for running this sarin if it comes back below 10% you will say its a flat top and reject them?

I just don''t get it.

The bigger problem on these forums is that you as a tradesmember can''t comment on another vendor''s stones so please do assume we are not talking about these particular stones just in general. The subjective judgement and person using this information will be Lorelei not from you.

And your point is?

 

[kenny]

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 4:58:08 PM
Author: dreamer_d

Date: 3/18/2010 4:56:26 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 4:52:17 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 4:14:54 PM
Author: Karl_K
While I feel there are some problems with the ASET images the current setup is producing it is making the diamonds look worse than they really are so I'm not that worried about consumers being harmed.

These are both classic style EC's, large tables and most likely flat crowns(get the CH), fairly bright but not a lot of life due to the lack of med and small virtual facets.
It is the classic look and some people do love it.
Many prefer the more modern look with smaller tables and higher crowns.
For the classic type they both look pretty good with my preference being the first one as it has slightly better brightness potential if someone loves that type.

Okay then Karl,
You are the resident expert on step cuts on these forums so I respect your opinion far more than Lorelei.

That is absolutely as it SHOULD be CCL. Karl has worked for years on EC's and other diamonds, you would do well to learn from him and listen to what he has to say.

I agree with you Lor, but CCL, I still think it was rude to be so flagrantly dismissing of Lorelei's opinion. It is disrespectful to the utmost. You can praise Karl without taking someone else down.

Thank you Dreamer. I believe it is very rude and disrespectful the way it was phrased and maybe intended to be, but as CCL says and I am well aware of his feelings, he doesn't respect my opinion - oh well! That aside, if CCL is willing to listen to Karl and learn from him, then he is doing something right!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 5:01:26 PM
Author: kenny

 

[kenny]

Sorry, couldn''t resist.
I''m so bad.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 5:04:22 PM
Author: kenny

Sorry, couldn''t resist.
I''m so bad.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 3/18/2010 4:46:21 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 4:41:13 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 3:59:25 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 3:41:22 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

CCL,

Sounds like you have been fortunate enough to have physical access to actual professional ASET recently, are you now working within the diamond profession and are no longer a consumer? Just curious.

Lorelei,

If I decide to join the trade I''ll follow the appropriate channels and identify myself as such on this board. I don''t really think your curiosity is meant as a compliment nor appropriate.

Any consumer can have access to AGS equipment through an appraisor or through a gemology school, the one I have access to was available through the Montreal School of Gemology and my appraisor. I doubt most trademembers have even seen a presentation ASET, unfortunately it is not the newest model (the ASET camera is) and in my opinion AGS has taken a step forward in functionality and direct port to a computer, but also taken a step back by only offering black background ASET on this latest model. A closed chamber backlit setup would eliminate the problems with calibration and varying office light conditions which I have seen at least two PS vendors suffer with lately.

Actually I believe it is appropriate CCL and there is absolutely no slight intended in my asking.

You have recently been showing a level of knowledge concerning ASET equipment that the average consumer is not privy to. You have also been advising vendors on setting up their new ASET equipment in a couple of threads recently and showing a considerable understanding of the workings of such.

Therefore, I am sure you can forgive my curiosity especially in view of you mentioning recently that you had received two job offers in the diamond industry in https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-cushion-opinions-please.136606/ thread, that you might have hopped over the fence into the trade and had acquired your new ASET knowledge as a result.

Lorelei,

I may have future aspirations to join the trade it is certainly an obsessive and time consuming hobby of mine. At the present my time is far more profitable spent in my current business rather than starting up in a field where I have limited contacts and experience. You are right my knowledge has far exceeded that of a normal consumer but its nowhere close to the level I feel appropriate to join the trade.

The information I have about the AGS equipment came mostly from conversations with Patrick Stout who is as enthusiastic about light performance and reflector technologies as I am.

Regards,
CCL

 

[lily000]

Well, it''s pretty evident that this thread became a lot bigger than me and my diamond.

But many, many thanks to all of you that have offered your opinion or suggestion. I really value your thoughts. This board has been so helpful to me throughout my diamond search and I''m always so pleased to see how generous people are with their advice and time. (And that''s really all that matters. Everyone''s opinions and advice are valid and valuable and should be regarded that way.)

By the way, Jim Schultz, if you''re still reading, I want to tell you how great my experience has been with your company. Wonderful customer service from the very start without exception. (And congratulations to you and your wife! 5...wow!)

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 5:25:57 PM
Author: lily000
Well, it''s pretty evident that this thread became a lot bigger than me and my diamond.

But many, many thanks to all of you that have offered your opinion or suggestion. I really value your thoughts. This board has been so helpful to me throughout my diamond search and I''m always so pleased to see how generous people are with their advice and time. (And that''s really all that matters. Everyone''s opinions and advice are valid and valuable and should be regarded that way.)

By the way, Jim Schultz, if you''re still reading, I want to tell you how great my experience has been with your company. Wonderful customer service from the very start without exception. (And congratulations to you and your wife! 5...wow!)

Yes, I apologize Lily but it seems we have a few issues here that need addressing, hope you didn''t mind!

 

[lily000]

Date: 3/18/2010 5:28:11 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 5:25:57 PM
Author: lily000
Well, it''s pretty evident that this thread became a lot bigger than me and my diamond.

But many, many thanks to all of you that have offered your opinion or suggestion. I really value your thoughts. This board has been so helpful to me throughout my diamond search and I''m always so pleased to see how generous people are with their advice and time. (And that''s really all that matters. Everyone''s opinions and advice are valid and valuable and should be regarded that way.)

By the way, Jim Schultz, if you''re still reading, I want to tell you how great my experience has been with your company. Wonderful customer service from the very start without exception. (And congratulations to you and your wife! 5...wow!)

Yes, I apologize Lily but it seems we have a few issues here that need addressing, hope you didn''t mind!

Nope. No need to apoligize. I have read many of your old posts for reference...I''m very grateful that you replied.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 5:33:06 PM
Author: lily000

Date: 3/18/2010 5:28:11 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 5:25:57 PM
Author: lily000
Well, it''s pretty evident that this thread became a lot bigger than me and my diamond.

But many, many thanks to all of you that have offered your opinion or suggestion. I really value your thoughts. This board has been so helpful to me throughout my diamond search and I''m always so pleased to see how generous people are with their advice and time. (And that''s really all that matters. Everyone''s opinions and advice are valid and valuable and should be regarded that way.)

By the way, Jim Schultz, if you''re still reading, I want to tell you how great my experience has been with your company. Wonderful customer service from the very start without exception. (And congratulations to you and your wife! 5...wow!)

Yes, I apologize Lily but it seems we have a few issues here that need addressing, hope you didn''t mind!

Nope. No need to apoligize. I have read many of your old posts for reference...I''m very grateful that you replied.

Thank you Lily! Glad I could be of help to you!

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 3/18/2010 4:59:05 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 4:52:17 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 4:14:54 PM
Author: Karl_K
While I feel there are some problems with the ASET images the current setup is producing it is making the diamonds look worse than they really are so I'm not that worried about consumers being harmed.

These are both classic style EC's, large tables and most likely flat crowns(get the CH), fairly bright but not a lot of life due to the lack of med and small virtual facets.
It is the classic look and some people do love it.
Many prefer the more modern look with smaller tables and higher crowns.
For the classic type they both look pretty good with my preference being the first one as it has slightly better brightness potential if someone loves that type.

Okay then Karl,
You are the resident expert on step cuts on these forums so I respect your opinion far more than Lorelei.

So then lets say theoretically we run the sarin and its comes back these have a 9-10% crown height then what will you say?
Lets say it comes back 12% then what? Or lets say it comes back within the 'ideal range' of 12 - 15% what then what should Lorelei tell the consumer who already looked at the stones and isnt' sure these are the best they can find?

Is the only purpose for running this sarin if it comes back below 10% you will say its a flat top and reject them?

I just don't get it.

The bigger problem on these forums is that you as a tradesmember can't comment on another vendor's stones so please do assume we are not talking about these particular stones just in general. The subjective judgement and person using this information will be Lorelei not from you.

And your point is?

Lorelei,

I spent considerable time here asking you to think about why you are asking for the information you are. You haven't once explained what Crown Height % range you are looking for or what you will be doing with it. The fact that you can't explain what numbers you are looking for speaks volumes.

Then 4 days after that thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/opinions-on-cushion-please.136272/ you ask for a crown height on a stone that had just about the worst ASET I've seen for a 4 main cushion. The comments in the thread were not positive on that stone yet still your request for Sarin to get crown height remained.

Given that PS is a close knit group and publicly tradesmembers don't and are often restricted from saying what they really think I decided to ask a few PS vendors privately about whether your request in the above thread had any merit or whether you were wasting James Allen's time. The responses were unanimous I should have questioned you on it as you were wasting the vendor's time.

Please feel free to answer the same questions I posed to Karl, your opinion will be respected as much as his if you can support your opinion with proof to explain the merits and interpretation of such information.

As a scientist I have been trained to judge information on its own merits and not be clouded by the person who is providing the information. The simple fact that you have an excellent general knowledge of diamonds, have helped thousands of consumers and have 36,000 posts is not enough, you have not demonstrated the expertise to evaluate crown height percentages and I've looked at your complete posting history using the Author and keywords search.

If you take that as a slight than so be it, I made a personal resolution to be less confrontational on these boards as you can certainly catch more flies with honey than with vinegar but on this point I think you should improve your level of knowledge or respect the limiitations and costs of requesting this information.

 

[lily000]

Date: 3/18/2010 5:49:26 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 4:59:05 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 4:52:17 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 4:14:54 PM
Author: Karl_K
While I feel there are some problems with the ASET images the current setup is producing it is making the diamonds look worse than they really are so I''m not that worried about consumers being harmed.

These are both classic style EC''s, large tables and most likely flat crowns(get the CH), fairly bright but not a lot of life due to the lack of med and small virtual facets.
It is the classic look and some people do love it.
Many prefer the more modern look with smaller tables and higher crowns.
For the classic type they both look pretty good with my preference being the first one as it has slightly better brightness potential if someone loves that type.

Okay then Karl,
You are the resident expert on step cuts on these forums so I respect your opinion far more than Lorelei.

So then lets say theoretically we run the sarin and its comes back these have a 9-10% crown height then what will you say?
Lets say it comes back 12% then what? Or lets say it comes back within the ''ideal range'' of 12 - 15% what then what should Lorelei tell the consumer who already looked at the stones and isnt'' sure these are the best they can find?

Is the only purpose for running this sarin if it comes back below 10% you will say its a flat top and reject them?

I just don''t get it.

The bigger problem on these forums is that you as a tradesmember can''t comment on another vendor''s stones so please do assume we are not talking about these particular stones just in general. The subjective judgement and person using this information will be Lorelei not from you.

And your point is?

Lorelei,

I spent considerable time here asking you to think about why you are asking for the information you are. You haven''t once explained what Crown Height % range you are looking for or what you will be doing with it. The fact that you can''t explain what numbers you are looking for speaks volumes.

Then 4 days after that thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/opinions-on-cushion-please.136272/ you ask for a crown height on a stone that had just about the worst ASET I''ve seen for a 4 main cushion. The comments in the thread were not positive on that stone yet still your request for Sarin to get crown height remained.

Given that PS is a club and publicly tradesmembers don''t and cannot say what they really think I decided to ask a few PS vendors about whether your request had any merit or whether you were wasting James Allen''s time. The responses were unanimous I should have questioned you on it as you were wasting the vendor''s time.

Please feel free to answer the same questions I posed to Karl, your opinion will be respected as much as his if you can support your opinion with proof to explain the merits and interpretation of such information.

As a scientist I have been trained to judge information on its own merits and not be clouded by the person who is providing the information. The simple fact that you have an excellent general knowledge of diamonds, have helped thousands of consumers and have 36,000 posts is not enough, you have not demonstrated the expertise to evaluate crown height percentages.

It is to me. And I did start the thread - asking a question, which Lorelei kindly answered.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 3/18/2010 6:04:38 PM
Author: lily000

Date: 3/18/2010 5:49:26 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 4:59:05 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 4:52:17 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 4:14:54 PM
Author: Karl_K
While I feel there are some problems with the ASET images the current setup is producing it is making the diamonds look worse than they really are so I'm not that worried about consumers being harmed.

These are both classic style EC's, large tables and most likely flat crowns(get the CH), fairly bright but not a lot of life due to the lack of med and small virtual facets.
It is the classic look and some people do love it.
Many prefer the more modern look with smaller tables and higher crowns.
For the classic type they both look pretty good with my preference being the first one as it has slightly better brightness potential if someone loves that type.

Okay then Karl,
You are the resident expert on step cuts on these forums so I respect your opinion far more than Lorelei.

So then lets say theoretically we run the sarin and its comes back these have a 9-10% crown height then what will you say?
Lets say it comes back 12% then what? Or lets say it comes back within the 'ideal range' of 12 - 15% what then what should Lorelei tell the consumer who already looked at the stones and isnt' sure these are the best they can find?

Is the only purpose for running this sarin if it comes back below 10% you will say its a flat top and reject them?

I just don't get it.

The bigger problem on these forums is that you as a tradesmember can't comment on another vendor's stones so please do assume we are not talking about these particular stones just in general. The subjective judgement and person using this information will be Lorelei not from you.

And your point is?

Lorelei,

I spent considerable time here asking you to think about why you are asking for the information you are. You haven't once explained what Crown Height % range you are looking for or what you will be doing with it. The fact that you can't explain what numbers you are looking for speaks volumes.

Then 4 days after that thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/opinions-on-cushion-please.136272/ you ask for a crown height on a stone that had just about the worst ASET I've seen for a 4 main cushion. The comments in the thread were not positive on that stone yet still your request for Sarin to get crown height remained.

Given that PS is a club and publicly tradesmembers don't and cannot say what they really think I decided to ask a few PS vendors about whether your request had any merit or whether you were wasting James Allen's time. The responses were unanimous I should have questioned you on it as you were wasting the vendor's time.

Please feel free to answer the same questions I posed to Karl, your opinion will be respected as much as his if you can support your opinion with proof to explain the merits and interpretation of such information.

As a scientist I have been trained to judge information on its own merits and not be clouded by the person who is providing the information. The simple fact that you have an excellent general knowledge of diamonds, have helped thousands of consumers and have 36,000 posts is not enough, you have not demonstrated the expertise to evaluate crown height percentages.

It is to me. And I did start the thread - asking a question, which Lorelei kindly answered.

Lily,

I also want to help you. I feel you are wasting your time and the vendors by asking JA for a sarin. You either accept these diamonds as they are,or you continue your selection process, the crown height even if it falls within the ideal range will not change the appearance of the diamonds you have already seen.

I agree with Paul-Antwerp about his advice that if you are looking for the top light performance from an emerald cut that you seek out a vendor with a particular expertise in the selection of fancy diamonds for light performance.
You will likely pay more to find a top performing emerald cut and given your preferences it may be difficult to satisfy all of your criteria.

As an alternative you may consider contacting Jon at Goodoldgold as he is just about the most selective vendor particularly when it comes to fancy shape diamonds. I don't see anything that would meet your criteria on the GOG website so you would have to ask him by phone or e-mail.






I would also point out that James Allen is an excellent vendor but their model is different from GOGs they have excellent pricing and provide a lot of information to consumers but they are nearly as fanactical about light performance as you will see on the GOG website.

 

[lily000]

Yes, I plan to. I really liked these two diamonds in person, and honestly, that is what is carrying the most weight with me. I wanted to know which stone others would recommend, to help me choose between the two, and make sure that there was no glaring red flag that I missed.

 

[lily000]

Sorry, CCL, I think I may have replied to quickly and you changed your post. I appreciate your reply. As you said, I''m choosing to accept these diamonds as they are - which happens to be beautiful, btw! Just need to choose which one. Thanks!

 

[Karl_K]

CCL: if you read the links you posted I already answered your question.
Reread the part about what ASET and regular pictures do not tell you.

I have a ton of respect for Lorelei and she does a great job.

That I usually want the CH is enough reason for her to ask for it.

In the thread you linked 3 experts all agreed it was needed information.
One of whom is a top cutter of step cuts and cushions.

 

[Karl_K]

Date: 3/18/2010 6:12:33 PM
Author: lily000
Yes, I plan to. I really liked these two diamonds in person, and honestly, that is what is carrying the most weight with me. I wanted to know which stone others would recommend, to help me choose between the two, and make sure that there was no glaring red flag that I missed.

crown height can be one of those red flags.
There was one a while back with a crown height of less than 5%.
The girdle was almost as high as the crown.
Not a good combo, the ASET looked fine.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 5:49:26 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 4:59:05 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 4:52:17 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 4:14:54 PM
Author: Karl_K
While I feel there are some problems with the ASET images the current setup is producing it is making the diamonds look worse than they really are so I'm not that worried about consumers being harmed.

These are both classic style EC's, large tables and most likely flat crowns(get the CH), fairly bright but not a lot of life due to the lack of med and small virtual facets.
It is the classic look and some people do love it.
Many prefer the more modern look with smaller tables and higher crowns.
For the classic type they both look pretty good with my preference being the first one as it has slightly better brightness potential if someone loves that type.

Okay then Karl,
You are the resident expert on step cuts on these forums so I respect your opinion far more than Lorelei.

So then lets say theoretically we run the sarin and its comes back these have a 9-10% crown height then what will you say?
Lets say it comes back 12% then what? Or lets say it comes back within the 'ideal range' of 12 - 15% what then what should Lorelei tell the consumer who already looked at the stones and isnt' sure these are the best they can find?

Is the only purpose for running this sarin if it comes back below 10% you will say its a flat top and reject them?

I just don't get it.

The bigger problem on these forums is that you as a tradesmember can't comment on another vendor's stones so please do assume we are not talking about these particular stones just in general. The subjective judgement and person using this information will be Lorelei not from you.

And your point is?

Lorelei,

I spent considerable time here asking you to think about why you are asking for the information you are. You haven't once explained what Crown Height % range you are looking for or what you will be doing with it. The fact that you can't explain what numbers you are looking for speaks volumes.

Then 4 days after that thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/opinions-on-cushion-please.136272/ you ask for a crown height on a stone that had just about the worst ASET I've seen for a 4 main cushion. The comments in the thread were not positive on that stone yet still your request for Sarin to get crown height remained.

Given that PS is a close knit group and publicly tradesmembers don't and are often restricted from saying what they really think I decided to ask a few PS vendors privately about whether your request in the above thread had any merit or whether you were wasting James Allen's time. The responses were unanimous I should have questioned you on it as you were wasting the vendor's time.

Please feel free to answer the same questions I posed to Karl, your opinion will be respected as much as his if you can support your opinion with proof to explain the merits and interpretation of such information.

As a scientist I have been trained to judge information on its own merits and not be clouded by the person who is providing the information. The simple fact that you have an excellent general knowledge of diamonds, have helped thousands of consumers and have 36,000 posts is not enough, you have not demonstrated the expertise to evaluate crown height percentages and I've looked at your complete posting history using the Author and keywords search.

If you take that as a slight than so be it, I made a personal resolution to be less confrontational on these boards as you can certainly catch more flies with honey than with vinegar but on this point I think you should improve your level of knowledge or respect the limiitations and costs of requesting this information.

CCL, I am going to be frank with you which I should have done a long time before this.

The reason I avoid engaging with you here is because of your argumentative and hostile attitude. I learned a long time ago that trying to hold a civil discussion with you concerning any aspect of diamonds is an exercise in futility. It pains me to have to say this as I had hoped we could finally begin to get along here on the boards but obviously this is not the case.

Firstly, I never said I was or posed as an expert. This is a consumer forum. I repeat - a consumer forum. And for the record, you are not an expert either for the benefit of those reading.

For the record, I believe have explained to you my reasoning for wanting crown height values. As to ' wasting vendor time', running a Sarin scan takes around a few minutes and costs a small amount of electricity. Hardly in the leagues of taking much time out of a vendor's day or eating into their profit margins when a few thousand dollar purchase is at stake.

Also you overlook a very important fact when attempting to offer advice here. Not everyone is looking for a cushion with the best possible optics, emerald cut or even round diamond come to that. Pricescope does not only revolve around the diamond buying elite. Buyers have different priorities and we need to help them according to their needs and expectations. Educate them yes as to what their options are but be respectful of what they ultimately choose to buy. How do you propose to help those that don't want a perfectly cut stone but might want to ask for help on a particular stone that does not meet your particular standards? Rather leaves that group of buyers out in the cold doesn't it...? Then we get the reputation of " don't bother with Pricescope, they will only help with superideal h&a, they won't want to help with common cut diamonds..."

As the Pricescope Prosumer, I have to be aware of and try to help ALL diamond buyers, not just those wanting superideal rounds, Princess or high quality fancy shapes.

Also as for my level of knowledge, I spend much time always striving to improve my knowledge in order to help others, along with having a very busy life outside of Pricescope. As for your speaking to vendors concerning my posts thats absolutely fine. I also behind the scenes check what I am doing and how I am doing with various known experts and professionals so I am quite satisfied that my work here is helpful and of a good standard. If any of the vendors you spoke to want to speak to me to re- educate me on asking for crown height percentages they more than likely know how to contact me through Pricescope, or have already been in contact with me off the boards as I have in fact been corrected by various well known vendors/ experts in the past on info I have given, and I very much doubt they would hesitate to do so now concerning crown heights as they have certainly been fast enough in the past if I were giving bad information!

I have listened to your arguments in the past, thought about what you had to say and discussed these matters with those of greater knowledge and experience than either of us. I draw my own conclusions as is my right and as always I keep an open mind on all diamond issues and I am always willing to adjust my approach and thinking if needed. I am well aware you would prefer I not participate in cushion threads and those with other fancy shapes, however that isn't going to happen. I am free to post as and when I wish and you have no influence on what I do or how I do it.

It seems to me if you are going to continue to post here that it would benefit us both if we can find a way we can work together. I am very well aware you don't respect my opinion and knowledge and thats fine, its not something that worries me at all. I do however feel that you have acquired some useful knowledge and I am certainly open to learning from you even though you are not open to learning from me. Lastly, I do not agree with your opinion on requesting crown height percentages and I would appreciate it if you would understand this and not derail threads for OP's when I request this information in the future.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/18/2010 6:39:39 PM
Author: Lorelei

It seems to me if you are going to continue to post here that it would benefit us both if we can find a way we can work together. I am very well aware you don''t respect my opinion and knowledge and thats fine, its not something that worries me at all. I do however feel that you have acquired some useful knowledge and I am certainly open to learning from you even though you are not open to learning from me. Lastly, I do not agree with your opinion on requesting crown height percentages and I would appreciate it if you would understand this and not derail threads for OP''s when I request this information in the future.

And here is the crux of the issue and a very reasonable solution.

CCL I hope you can take the high road. From my POV your approach to this issue is starting to sound a little like another poster''s repeated assertions that cut quality is a personal preference, and we all know you don''t want to come accross that way

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 6:28:24 PM
Author: Karl_K
CCL: if you read the links you posted I already answered your question.
Reread the part about what ASET and regular pictures do not tell you.

I have a ton of respect for Lorelei and she does a great job.

That I usually want the CH is enough reason for her to ask for it.

In the thread you linked 3 experts all agreed it was needed information.
One of whom is a top cutter of step cuts and cushions.

With EC threads I don't think I have ever seen you not ask for it unless it was an obvious dud! Which these diamonds aren't! You were the one that taught me all about EC's in the first place Karl and you spent much of your valuable time doing so, thanks for that!

 

[bgray]

Lily:

I would like to give James Allen some props and say I purchased an EC from him several years ago and was delighted with the experience. I had no aset, no nothing at that point. I went on his rec and had it sent to an appraiser where I could view it. I think these stones look like extremely nice and large stones for the money. Nearly all fancies have some compromises. There is nothing glaring about either one. I do believe the crown hieght is important and a valid question simply because if the stone is too shallow they look dull and dirty far more quickly. However the picture gives me reason to believe the crown isnt ominously low. I would still like to know however-- if possible.

*and I really like the second one. The first one has corners that are a little overly clipped IMO

I think #2 may look better once set.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 3/18/2010 6:39:39 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 5:49:26 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 4:59:05 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 4:52:17 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 4:14:54 PM
Author: Karl_K
While I feel there are some problems with the ASET images the current setup is producing it is making the diamonds look worse than they really are so I'm not that worried about consumers being harmed.

These are both classic style EC's, large tables and most likely flat crowns(get the CH), fairly bright but not a lot of life due to the lack of med and small virtual facets.
It is the classic look and some people do love it.
Many prefer the more modern look with smaller tables and higher crowns.
For the classic type they both look pretty good with my preference being the first one as it has slightly better brightness potential if someone loves that type.

Okay then Karl,
You are the resident expert on step cuts on these forums so I respect your opinion far more than Lorelei.

So then lets say theoretically we run the sarin and its comes back these have a 9-10% crown height then what will you say?
Lets say it comes back 12% then what? Or lets say it comes back within the 'ideal range' of 12 - 15% what then what should Lorelei tell the consumer who already looked at the stones and isnt' sure these are the best they can find?

Is the only purpose for running this sarin if it comes back below 10% you will say its a flat top and reject them?

I just don't get it.

The bigger problem on these forums is that you as a tradesmember can't comment on another vendor's stones so please do assume we are not talking about these particular stones just in general. The subjective judgement and person using this information will be Lorelei not from you.

And your point is?

Lorelei,

I spent considerable time here asking you to think about why you are asking for the information you are. You haven't once explained what Crown Height % range you are looking for or what you will be doing with it. The fact that you can't explain what numbers you are looking for speaks volumes.

Then 4 days after that thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/opinions-on-cushion-please.136272/ you ask for a crown height on a stone that had just about the worst ASET I've seen for a 4 main cushion. The comments in the thread were not positive on that stone yet still your request for Sarin to get crown height remained.

Given that PS is a close knit group and publicly tradesmembers don't and are often restricted from saying what they really think I decided to ask a few PS vendors privately about whether your request in the above thread had any merit or whether you were wasting James Allen's time. The responses were unanimous I should have questioned you on it as you were wasting the vendor's time.

Please feel free to answer the same questions I posed to Karl, your opinion will be respected as much as his if you can support your opinion with proof to explain the merits and interpretation of such information.

As a scientist I have been trained to judge information on its own merits and not be clouded by the person who is providing the information. The simple fact that you have an excellent general knowledge of diamonds, have helped thousands of consumers and have 36,000 posts is not enough, you have not demonstrated the expertise to evaluate crown height percentages and I've looked at your complete posting history using the Author and keywords search.

If you take that as a slight than so be it, I made a personal resolution to be less confrontational on these boards as you can certainly catch more flies with honey than with vinegar but on this point I think you should improve your level of knowledge or respect the limiitations and costs of requesting this information.

CCL, I am going to be frank with you which I should have done a long time before this.


The reason I avoid engaging with you here is because of your argumentative and hostile attitude. I learned a long time ago that trying to hold a civil discussion with you concerning any aspect of diamonds is an exercise in futility. It pains me to have to say this as I had hoped we could finally begin to get along here on the boards but obviously this is not the case.

Firstly, I never said I was or posed as an expert. This is a consumer forum. I repeat - a consumer forum. And for the record, you are not an expert either for the benefit of those reading.

For the record, I have explained to you my reasoning for wanting crown height values. As to ' wasting vendor time', running a Sarin scan takes around a few minutes and costs a small amount of electricity. Hardly in the leagues of taking much time out of a vendor's day or eating into their profit margins when a few thousand dollar purchase is at stake.

Also you overlook a very important fact when attempting to offer advice here. Not everyone is looking for a cushion with the best possible optics, emerald cut or even round diamond come to that. Pricescope does not only revolve around the diamond buying elite. Buyers have different priorities and we need to help them according to their needs and expectations. Educate them yes as to what their options are but be respectful of what they ultimately choose to buy. How do you propose to help those that don't want a perfectly cut stone but might want to ask for help on a particular stone that does not meet your particular standards? Rather leaves that group of buyers out in the cold doesn't it...? Then we get the reputation of ' don't bother with Pricescope, they will only help with superideal h&a, they won't want to help with common cut diamonds...'

As the Pricescope Prosumer, I have to be aware of and try to help ALL diamond buyers, not just those wanting superideal rounds, Princess or high quality fancy shapes.

Also as for my level of knowledge, I spend much time always striving to improve my knowledge in order to help others, along with having a very busy life outside of Pricescope. As for your speaking to vendors concerning my posts thats absolutely fine. I also behind the scenes check what I am doing and how I am doing with various known experts and professionals so I am quite satisfied that my work here is helpful and of a good standard. If any of the vendors you spoke to want to speak to me to re- educate me on asking for crown height percentages they more than likely know how to contact me through Pricescope, or have already been in contact with me off the boards as I have in fact been corrected by various well known vendors/ experts in the past on info I have given, and I very much doubt they would hesitate to do so now concerning crown heights as they have certainly been fast enough in the past if I were giving bad information!

I have listened to your arguments in the past, thought about what you had to say and discussed these matters with those of greater knowledge and experience than either of us. I draw my own conclusions as is my right and as always I keep an open mind on all diamond issues and I am always willing to adjust my approach and thinking if needed. I am well aware you would prefer I not participate in cushion threads and those with other fancy shapes, however that isn't going to happen. I am free to post as and when I wish and you have no influence on what I do or how I do it.

It seems to me if you are going to continue to post here that it would benefit us both if we can find a way we can work together. I am very well aware you don't respect my opinion and knowledge and thats fine, its not something that worries me at all. I do however feel that you have acquired some useful knowledge and I am certainly open to learning from you even though you are not open to learning from me. Lastly, I do not agree with your opinion on requesting crown height percentages and I would appreciate it if you would understand this and not derail threads for OP's when I request this information in the future.

Lorelei,

I am pleased that you might want to resolve this disagreement concerning crown height.

------------------------------------------------------
Your position (correct me if I'm wrong):

You ask for a crown height in EC and other Fancies and if its over 10% you don't reject the diamond. You use it as a rejection tool similar to ASET and Idealscope.
------------------------------------------------------

I would prefer you to qualify the reason you ask for this information each time you request it, if you do I won't feel the need need to comment on it in further threads.

CCL

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 7:26:24 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Lorelei,

Let me see if I get your position:

You ask for a crown height in EC and other Fancies and if its over 10% you don't reject the diamond.
For any other information or specifics I better ask an expert as you aren't going to go into details.

If not please clarify I will try to be as kind and non confrontational as possible.

No, that isn't what I am saying. Having a tall crown height will not save a diamond which is otherwise poorly cut. It can in some cases with a borderline stone make the difference between deciding whether a particular stone might be worth spending time in evaluating it further or not, in the case of an EC for example with a larger table, a taller crown height might make a positive difference and knowing this value can be of benefit in the overall decision, taking all the information on the stone into account, whether to continue with it or not.

Second sentence I don't quite understand what you are saying.

Third - thank you, I appreciate that.

 

[Dreamer_D]

CCL you should read your posts before you hit "subit" or else people will keep quoting before you edit

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 7:26:24 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Lorelei,

I am pleased that you might want to resolve this disagreement concerning crown height.

------------------------------------------------------
Your position (correct me if I'm wrong):

You ask for a crown height in EC and other Fancies You use it as a rejection tool similar to ASET and Idealscope.
------------------------------------------------------

I would prefer you to qualify the reason you ask for this information each time you request it, if you do I won't feel the need need to comment on it in further threads.

CCL

CCL, your turn to edit on me when I had already answered! See above.

As to your last sentence, I will end now rather than continuing to derail this thread by telling you if you have an issue with anything I post including requesting crown heights, that you now bring it up with admin.