Please help with 2 emerald-cut ASET images...

[lily000]

Hello everyone!

After months of looking (and indecision), I''ve finally found two emerald cuts that are within my budget, that I really like. I love both of their shapes and patterns, and they both seem bright in person. They are really quite similar stones in stats and price.

I''ve requested ASET images to help me make a decision between them. Also, their tables are on the larger size, and I like look - I''m just worried about how it is affecting the light return. I''ve tried to read all the posts I could find about emerald-cut ASET image interpretations, but I could still really use some help or even just an opinion. Would you please take a look and let me know what you think?

From the little I do know, it looks like they both have too much green and not enough red. And one of them looks a little dark in the middle. Is this really bad?? I''m honestly scared to ask because I really do like them (and would love to get this ring thing moving

), but I figure I should at least know the truth. (fingers crossed...but don''t worry it''s ok to tell me the truth)

I really appreciate the help I''ve recieved from this board. Thank you all so much!

Diamond 1= 1.53 F SI1 Depth 63.5%/ Table 67%
Diamond 2 = 1.51 F VS1 Depth 61% /Table 70%

 

[lily000]

Diamond 2

 

[bgray]

I think they are both fine. I prefer number 2. The tables are a little large but I have seen bigger and the stones can still be nice. I would prefer the vs2 and I like the shape and faceting in number two as well. could you provide the dimensions and crown height? If you like them in person dont question that too much.

 

[Lorelei]

Hi Lily

Can you post the actual photos of the stones please and also get the crown heights?

If you give us your budget and other requirements maybe we can find some more EC's to suit you?

 

[lily000]

Wow...thank you both so much for the quick replies! xoxo

bgray - Funny my first choice was #2 and it is beautiful in person - but the seller thought it was a drop inferior than the other. Which only helped fueled my indecision (but I of course appreciated the honesty.)

Dimensions:
Diamond 1= 1.53 F SI1 Depth 63.5%/ Table 67% 8.01 x 5.77 x 3.67
Diamond 2 = 1.51 F VS1 Depth 61% /Table 70% 8.05 x 5.86 x 3.54


Lorelei - I''ll post the photos below. (I have to say that the photo for diamond #1 really doesn''t do it justice.) I do not know the crown height. These diamonds are from James Allen (who have been great by the way). Do you think I can ask them for that? My budget is $10,000 with tax (I''m in NY) and I''d like an F color or above.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 10:38:43 AM
Author: lily000
Wow...thank you both so much for the quick replies! xoxo

bgray - Funny my first choice was #2 and it is beautiful in person - but the seller thought it was a drop inferior than the other. Which only helped fueled my indecision (but I of course appreciated the honesty.)

Dimensions:
Diamond 1= 1.53 F SI1 Depth 63.5%/ Table 67% 8.01 x 5.77 x 3.67
Diamond 2 = 1.51 F VS1 Depth 61% /Table 70% 8.05 x 5.86 x 3.54


Lorelei - I''ll post the photos below. (I have to say that the photo for diamond #1 really doesn''t do it justice.) I do not know the crown height. These diamonds are from James Allen (who have been great by the way). Do you think I can ask them for that? My budget is $10,000 with tax (I''m in NY) and I''d like an F color or above.

You can ask them to run a Sarin scan on the diamonds to get the crown height values, I believe they have a Sarin scanner.

 

[lily000]

Diamond 1

 

[lily000]

Diamond 2

 

[Lorelei]

I think I prefer the first but as you can see them in person if neither stone really appeals, keep looking. JA have access to lots of EC''s so don''t settle but keep looking until you find the right one.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 3/18/2010 10:16:15 AM
Author:lily000
Hello everyone!

After months of looking (and indecision), I've finally found two emerald cuts that are within my budget, that I really like. I love both of their shapes and patterns, and they both seem bright in person. They are really quite similar stones in stats and price.

I've requested ASET images to help me make a decision between them. Also, their tables are on the larger size, and I like look - I'm just worried about how it is affecting the light return. I've tried to read all the posts I could find about emerald-cut ASET image interpretations, but I could still really use some help or even just an opinion. Would you please take a look and let me know what you think?

From the little I do know, it looks like they both have too much green and not enough red. And one of them looks a little dark in the middle. Is this really bad?? I'm honestly scared to ask because I really do like them (and would love to get this ring thing moving

), but I figure I should at least know the truth. (fingers crossed...but don't worry it's ok to tell me the truth)

I really appreciate the help I've recieved from this board. Thank you all so much!

Diamond 1= 1.53 F SI1 Depth 63.5%/ Table 67%
Diamond 2 = 1.51 F VS1 Depth 61% /Table 70%

Please tell James Allen to spend a little bit more time calibrating their ASET camera! Those images are not well taken, we want to see crisp contrast between facets. When you see blue bleeding into red I don't blame anyone for not knowing what is going on.

They need to go back to AGS and their rep who sold the camera and get assistance on the settings to improve these images.
JA has been providing poor images for months now and noone has said anything

.

One only has to look at the black background ASET images of Whiteflash to see what crisp images should looks like.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 3/18/2010 10:40:19 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 10:38:43 AM
Author: lily000
Wow...thank you both so much for the quick replies! xoxo

bgray - Funny my first choice was #2 and it is beautiful in person - but the seller thought it was a drop inferior than the other. Which only helped fueled my indecision (but I of course appreciated the honesty.)

Dimensions:
Diamond 1= 1.53 F SI1 Depth 63.5%/ Table 67% 8.01 x 5.77 x 3.67
Diamond 2 = 1.51 F VS1 Depth 61% /Table 70% 8.05 x 5.86 x 3.54


Lorelei - I''ll post the photos below. (I have to say that the photo for diamond #1 really doesn''t do it justice.) I do not know the crown height. These diamonds are from James Allen (who have been great by the way). Do you think I can ask them for that? My budget is $10,000 with tax (I''m in NY) and I''d like an F color or above.

You can ask them to run a Sarin scan on the diamonds to get the crown height values, I believe they have a Sarin scanner.

Lorelei,

What is a Sarin scan is going to do when the customer has already seen the diamond? We''ve seen the ASET images and a photograph and the customer the diamond what are you going to do with the crown height %?

CCL

 

[YoungPapa]

Date: 3/18/2010 12:52:33 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover
Please tell James Allen to spend a little bit more time calibrating their ASET camera! Those images are not well taken, we want to see crisp contrast between facets. When you see blue bleeding into red I don''t blame anyone for not knowing what is going on.

CCL -

Your criticisms have not gone unheard. Our goal is to overhaul many of our imaging technologies, including the ASET camera. I cannot tell you when it will be done, only that it cannot happen soon enough.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think that since you can see them in person, you might just have to go with your eyes on this one. Have you seen many ECs in person? If not, spend some time, go to Tiffany and other high end stores in NY, perhaps ask JA to call in some extremely well cut stones as well that are not totally in your specs so that you can *see* what optimal performing WCs look like. If you give your eyes a little training then you can rely on them to help you pick!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Or have the best one sent to a trusted PS independent appraiser who knows ECs and has a good ASET machine!

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Lily,

I too have a lot of difficulties assessing an ASET of an emerald, and the problem of not knowing the exact photo-setup being used, just makes it impossible.

From your side, the task is even more difficult trying to make a first selection out of a huge virtual list, without any meaningful specs about cut-quality. Seeing that it took you months to find two that match your desired size, colour, clarity and your budget, it gives to think that you have found two very cheap stones for that size, colour and clarity.

My suggested strategy in fancy shapes is to work with a vendor who really knows his stuff. Very often, such vendors also have a direct relationship with some cutters, who do not offer their stones on a virtual list. Considering that you seem to want a relatively good cut-quality, a vendor should be able to provide you with a selection, geared towards that end.

However, you might have to conclude that a high cut-quality generally does not go together with the cheapest price.

Live long,

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 3/18/2010 3:05:43 PM
Author: James Allen Schultz

Date: 3/18/2010 12:52:33 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover
Please tell James Allen to spend a little bit more time calibrating their ASET camera! Those images are not well taken, we want to see crisp contrast between facets. When you see blue bleeding into red I don''t blame anyone for not knowing what is going on.

CCL -

Your criticisms have not gone unheard. Our goal is to overhaul many of our imaging technologies, including the ASET camera. I cannot tell you when it will be done, only that it cannot happen soon enough.

Patrick Stout at AGS offered to help with the calibration of your camera, and exchange images and settings, I hope that is helpful.

If you are overhauling as in purchasing different equipment them please please consider getting a backlit white background ASET and save yourself all the trouble.
There is a lot more information to be gained from a white background ASET over a black and its a lot easier to focus as well if you even have to. The difference between areas of leakage in the diamond and those that gather light from 75 - 90(obstruction) is much easier to discern. Contrast is enhanced and you see much less color bleeding overall.

The AGS Presentation white background ASET is really easy to use as its a controlled closed system and the lighting outside the chamber doesn''t matter. I guess the only issue is taking a photograph and sending it straight to a computer as one would have to take a photograph through the eyepiece. Not a difficult task but still more cumbersome than one integrated unit.

Good-luck I appreciate your efforts to provide your customers with the best selection and rejection tools available. It is much easier for me to reccomend your site over others due to all the photographs and other images, so I applaud you in this effort even if the system needs to be tweaked a little bit in future.

Regards,
CCL

 

[kenny]

JA, if you know your ASET set up is producing pics that are unacceptable may I respectfully suggest you stop using it till it is corrected and take down all ASET pics that are unacceptable?

Data is data, and if a weight scale was flakey I'm sure it would no longer be used.
People are making very expensive decisions based partially on these pics.

 

[JulieN]

I like the first.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 1:04:15 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 10:40:19 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 10:38:43 AM
Author: lily000
Wow...thank you both so much for the quick replies! xoxo

bgray - Funny my first choice was #2 and it is beautiful in person - but the seller thought it was a drop inferior than the other. Which only helped fueled my indecision (but I of course appreciated the honesty.)

Dimensions:
Diamond 1= 1.53 F SI1 Depth 63.5%/ Table 67% 8.01 x 5.77 x 3.67
Diamond 2 = 1.51 F VS1 Depth 61% /Table 70% 8.05 x 5.86 x 3.54


Lorelei - I'll post the photos below. (I have to say that the photo for diamond #1 really doesn't do it justice.) I do not know the crown height. These diamonds are from James Allen (who have been great by the way). Do you think I can ask them for that? My budget is $10,000 with tax (I'm in NY) and I'd like an F color or above.

You can ask them to run a Sarin scan on the diamonds to get the crown height values, I believe they have a Sarin scanner.

Lorelei,

What is a Sarin scan is going to do when the customer has already seen the diamond? We've seen the ASET images and a photograph and the customer the diamond what are you going to do with the crown height %?

CCL

Again crown height is a valid piece of info for emerald cuts and as such would be useful as PART of the overall picture. I am also curious as to what you propose to do with Karl when he asks for the crown height for EC's in future as he almost always does, are you going to question his right to ask for that info also?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 3:41:22 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 3:05:43 PM
Author: James Allen Schultz

Date: 3/18/2010 12:52:33 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover
Please tell James Allen to spend a little bit more time calibrating their ASET camera! Those images are not well taken, we want to see crisp contrast between facets. When you see blue bleeding into red I don't blame anyone for not knowing what is going on.

CCL -

Your criticisms have not gone unheard. Our goal is to overhaul many of our imaging technologies, including the ASET camera. I cannot tell you when it will be done, only that it cannot happen soon enough.

Patrick Stout at AGS offered to help with the calibration of your camera, and exchange images and settings, I hope that is helpful.

If you are overhauling as in purchasing different equipment them please please consider getting a backlit white background ASET and save yourself all the trouble.
There is a lot more information to be gained from a white background ASET over a black and its a lot easier to focus as well if you even have to. The difference between areas of leakage in the diamond and those that gather light from 75 - 90(obstruction) is much easier to discern. Contrast is enhanced and you see much less color bleeding overall.

The AGS Presentation white background ASET is really easy to use as its a controlled closed system and the lighting outside the chamber doesn't matter. I guess the only issue is taking a photograph and sending it straight to a computer as one would have to take a photograph through the eyepiece. Not a difficult task but still more cumbersome than one integrated unit.

Good-luck I appreciate your efforts to provide your customers with the best selection and rejection tools available. It is much easier for me to reccomend your site over others due to all the photographs and other images, so I applaud you in this effort even if the system needs to be tweaked a little bit in future.

Regards,
CCL

CCL,

Sounds like you have been fortunate enough to have physical access to actual professional ASET recently, are you now working within the diamond profession and are no longer a consumer? Just curious.

 

[YoungPapa]

Date: 3/18/2010 3:44:17 PM
Author: kenny
JA, if you know your ASET set up is producing pics that are unacceptable may I respectfully suggest you stop using it till it is corrected and take down all ASET pics that are unacceptable?

Kenny,

I don't know that the images are unacceptable. Our current calibration was the result of working directly with both Jason and Patrick at AGS back in November of last year. We also involved Garry Holloway in the discussion and concluded in the end the machine was working properly. If in fact that isn't the case, our next step may be a second effort at calibration, exchange of the unit, or purchase of an entirely different setup altogether. Ultimately that decision rests on my shoulders and I just haven't had the time to properly evaluate how to proceed.

Add to the mix that we're just off the heels of the Christmas/Valentine holidays, I'm in Maryland, the machine in New York, and my wife due with baby #5 shortly and you might better understand why we haven't made any forward motion on this issue. Not an excuse - just the reality.

In short, it's on my "to do" list - I promise!

 

[kenny]

Thanks Jim.

 

[bgray]

I have to say that in my opinion the images arent amazing but they certainly do reveal enough to make a good judgment. Photographical perfection is not the goal --visual delineation of facets, evidence of crisp and aligned facets and the absence of blacked out or massed areas are the main issue we want to avoid. If those issues are avoided then light return is optimized.

 

[Karl_K]

While I feel there are some problems with the ASET images the current setup is producing it is making the diamonds look worse than they really are so I''m not that worried about consumers being harmed.

These are both classic style EC''s, large tables and most likely flat crowns(get the CH), fairly bright but not a lot of life due to the lack of med and small virtual facets.
It is the classic look and some people do love it.
Many prefer the more modern look with smaller tables and higher crowns.
For the classic type they both look pretty good with my preference being the first one as it has slightly better brightness potential if someone loves that type.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 4:14:54 PM
Author: Karl_K
While I feel there are some problems with the ASET images the current setup is producing it is making the diamonds look worse than they really are so I'm not that worried about consumers being harmed.

These are both classic style EC's, large tables and most likely flat crowns(get the CH), fairly bright but not a lot of life due to the lack of med and small virtual facets.
It is the classic look and some people do love it.
Many prefer the more modern look with smaller tables and higher crowns.
For the classic type they both look pretty good with my preference being the first one as it has slightly better brightness potential if someone loves that type.

Exactly.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/18/2010 4:14:54 PM
Author: Karl_K
While I feel there are some problems with the ASET images the current setup is producing it is making the diamonds look worse than they really are so I''m not that worried about consumers being harmed.

I think this is a good way to look at it. If the images are causing people to reject good stones it hurts JA and not the consumer, except for the added PITA of looking more.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 3/18/2010 3:56:31 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 1:04:15 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 10:40:19 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 10:38:43 AM
Author: lily000
Wow...thank you both so much for the quick replies! xoxo

bgray - Funny my first choice was #2 and it is beautiful in person - but the seller thought it was a drop inferior than the other. Which only helped fueled my indecision (but I of course appreciated the honesty.)

Dimensions:
Diamond 1= 1.53 F SI1 Depth 63.5%/ Table 67% 8.01 x 5.77 x 3.67
Diamond 2 = 1.51 F VS1 Depth 61% /Table 70% 8.05 x 5.86 x 3.54


Lorelei - I''ll post the photos below. (I have to say that the photo for diamond #1 really doesn''t do it justice.) I do not know the crown height. These diamonds are from James Allen (who have been great by the way). Do you think I can ask them for that? My budget is $10,000 with tax (I''m in NY) and I''d like an F color or above.

You can ask them to run a Sarin scan on the diamonds to get the crown height values, I believe they have a Sarin scanner.

Lorelei,

What is a Sarin scan is going to do when the customer has already seen the diamond? We''ve seen the ASET images and a photograph and the customer the diamond what are you going to do with the crown height %?

CCL

Again crown height is a useful piece of info in emerald cuts and as such would be useful as PART of the overall picture.

It can be reasonably inferred from the ASET, Picture , table and depth% that the crown is not as high as one would like to see, however this guess or the actual number for crown height matter very little when the visual evidence (in person and with an ASET) has already been evaluated..

I do see value in requesting a sarin when presented with a good to great ASET image and respectable numbers (especially for step cuts) especially if the diamond has not already been questioned based on one of the other rejection tools. However this is not one of those cases and this request is just wasting the vendor''s time.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 4:27:41 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 3:56:31 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 1:04:15 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 10:40:19 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 10:38:43 AM
Author: lily000
Wow...thank you both so much for the quick replies! xoxo

bgray - Funny my first choice was #2 and it is beautiful in person - but the seller thought it was a drop inferior than the other. Which only helped fueled my indecision (but I of course appreciated the honesty.)

Dimensions:
Diamond 1= 1.53 F SI1 Depth 63.5%/ Table 67% 8.01 x 5.77 x 3.67
Diamond 2 = 1.51 F VS1 Depth 61% /Table 70% 8.05 x 5.86 x 3.54


Lorelei - I'll post the photos below. (I have to say that the photo for diamond #1 really doesn't do it justice.) I do not know the crown height. These diamonds are from James Allen (who have been great by the way). Do you think I can ask them for that? My budget is $10,000 with tax (I'm in NY) and I'd like an F color or above.

You can ask them to run a Sarin scan on the diamonds to get the crown height values, I believe they have a Sarin scanner.

Lorelei,

What is a Sarin scan is going to do when the customer has already seen the diamond? We've seen the ASET images and a photograph and the customer the diamond what are you going to do with the crown height %?

CCL

Again crown height is a useful piece of info in emerald cuts and as such would be useful as PART of the overall picture.

It can be reasonably inferred from the ASET, Picture , table and depth% that the crown is not as high as one would like to see, however this guess or the actual number for crown height matter very little when the visual evidence (in person and with an ASET) has already been evaluated..

I do see value in requesting a sarin when presented with a good to great ASET image and respectable numbers (especially for step cuts) especially if the diamond has not already been questioned based on one of the other rejection tools. However this is not one of those cases and this request is just wasting the vendor's time.

Actually it isn't. Karl also doesn't think that asking for the CH is a waste of time either in this case as he also requested that info above.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 3/18/2010 3:59:25 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 3:41:22 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 3:05:43 PM
Author: James Allen Schultz

Date: 3/18/2010 12:52:33 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover
Please tell James Allen to spend a little bit more time calibrating their ASET camera! Those images are not well taken, we want to see crisp contrast between facets. When you see blue bleeding into red I don''t blame anyone for not knowing what is going on.

CCL -

Your criticisms have not gone unheard. Our goal is to overhaul many of our imaging technologies, including the ASET camera. I cannot tell you when it will be done, only that it cannot happen soon enough.

Patrick Stout at AGS offered to help with the calibration of your camera, and exchange images and settings, I hope that is helpful.

If you are overhauling as in purchasing different equipment them please please consider getting a backlit white background ASET and save yourself all the trouble.
There is a lot more information to be gained from a white background ASET over a black and its a lot easier to focus as well if you even have to. The difference between areas of leakage in the diamond and those that gather light from 75 - 90(obstruction) is much easier to discern. Contrast is enhanced and you see much less color bleeding overall.

The AGS Presentation white background ASET is really easy to use as its a controlled closed system and the lighting outside the chamber doesn''t matter. I guess the only issue is taking a photograph and sending it straight to a computer as one would have to take a photograph through the eyepiece. Not a difficult task but still more cumbersome than one integrated unit.

Good-luck I appreciate your efforts to provide your customers with the best selection and rejection tools available. It is much easier for me to reccomend your site over others due to all the photographs and other images, so I applaud you in this effort even if the system needs to be tweaked a little bit in future.

Regards,
CCL

CCL,

Sounds like you have been fortunate enough to have physical access to actual professional ASET recently, are you now working within the diamond profession and are no longer a consumer? Just curious.

Lorelei,

If I decide to join the trade I''ll follow the appropriate channels and identify myself as such on this board. I don''t really think your curiosity is meant as a compliment nor appropriate.

Any consumer can have access to AGS equipment through an appraisor or through a gemology school, the one I have access to was available through the Montreal School of Gemology and my appraisor. I doubt most trademembers have even seen a presentation ASET, unfortunately it is not the newest model (the ASET camera is) and in my opinion AGS has taken a step forward in functionality and direct port to a computer, but also taken a step back by only offering black background ASET on this latest model. A closed chamber backlit setup would eliminate the problems with calibration and varying office light conditions which I have seen at least two PS vendors suffer with lately.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 3/18/2010 4:41:13 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 3/18/2010 3:59:25 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/18/2010 3:41:22 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

CCL,

Sounds like you have been fortunate enough to have physical access to actual professional ASET recently, are you now working within the diamond profession and are no longer a consumer? Just curious.

Lorelei,

If I decide to join the trade I'll follow the appropriate channels and identify myself as such on this board. I don't really think your curiosity is meant as a compliment nor appropriate.

Any consumer can have access to AGS equipment through an appraisor or through a gemology school, the one I have access to was available through the Montreal School of Gemology and my appraisor. I doubt most trademembers have even seen a presentation ASET, unfortunately it is not the newest model (the ASET camera is) and in my opinion AGS has taken a step forward in functionality and direct port to a computer, but also taken a step back by only offering black background ASET on this latest model. A closed chamber backlit setup would eliminate the problems with calibration and varying office light conditions which I have seen at least two PS vendors suffer with lately.

Actually I believe it is appropriate CCL and there is absolutely no slight intended in my asking.

You have recently been showing a level of knowledge concerning ASET equipment that the average consumer is not privy to. You have also been advising vendors on setting up their new ASET equipment in a couple of threads recently and showing a considerable understanding of the workings of such.

Therefore, I am sure you can forgive my curiosity especially in view of you mentioning recently that you had received two job offers in the diamond industry in https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-cushion-opinions-please.136606/ thread, that you might have hopped over the fence into the trade and had acquired your new ASET knowledge as a result.