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Please help on OEC

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simplysplendid

Brilliant_Rock
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Hi,

I am looking at this purchasing this OEC over the internet. From where I live, there is no OEC
.

EGL Los Angeles Cert
Depth 65.1%
Table: 48%
Crown: 19.6%
Pav: 41.4%
Girdle: Very Thin to Slightly Thick
Culet: Medium
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Fair to Good

I have included some pictures which aren''t very clear. I am told that this OEC is fiery except that it is not perfectly round (which I am also told that is very normal for this type of cut). Would you please let me know if it is indeed so that it is most OECs are not perfectly round? I saw Facetfire''s beautiful OEC (which got me tempted) and it is very round.

Please let me know what you think.

soec_3.jpg
 

FacetFire

Brilliant_Rock
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Hi SimplySplendid! I got lucky on finding one that was very round...you are right, a lot of them are off-round for this time period. From the pic, I''d say this one has potential. Can I ask what the carat weight is? Price? Measurements? We might be able to give more feedback with that info...

Glad your looking for an OEC! I just can''t say enough about them!
 

simplysplendid

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Date: 1/23/2007 10:48:29 PM
Author: FacetFire
Hi SimplySplendid! I got lucky on finding one that was very round...you are right, a lot of them are off-round for this time period. From the pic, I''d say this one has potential. Can I ask what the carat weight is? Price? Measurements? We might be able to give more feedback with that info...

Glad your looking for an OEC! I just can''t say enough about them!
Hi FacetFire! So glad to hear from you!

It is 0.64 I VS2. The measurement is 5.51 X 5.30 X 3.52. I believe the 0.21mm difference in the diameter reflects the fact that it is not perfectly round. I cannot remember the exact price but I know it is between USD1200-USD1300. What do you think?
 

FacetFire

Brilliant_Rock
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For my tastes, this stone seems right on. I like the chunky, kite-shaped facets, and the specs look pretty good to me. Yes, it's not perfectly round, but at this size, I think you'll barely notice. It doesn't look too off-round from the pics, except that one side, which honestly doesn't bother me. You should get a lot of fire off this one. Do they have a return policy in case you don't love it? BTW, I have been looking at similarly sized OECs lately, and the price seems fair.

ETA, my one concern is the symmetry listed as fair to good. Maybe someone else can chime in on this one...but I didn't think EGL certs listed a range. My stone has an EGL USA cert and the symmerty is just listed as good. And though you would look for VG or EX in a modern stone, I think OECs can look great as long as they have at least good symmetry (I've never seen one with more than VG symmetry)...fair starts to not look as nice...
 

simplysplendid

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Hi FacetFire, Thank you very much for helping me out..

The symmetry is from the copy of the cert the vendor forwarded. I double checked and the cert did say "Fair to Good". Any concerns I should have?
 

diagem

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Date: 1/23/2007 11:05:50 PM
Author: FacetFire
For my tastes, this stone seems right on. I like the chunky, kite-shaped facets, and the specs look pretty good to me. Yes, it''s not perfectly round, but at this size, I think you''ll barely notice. It doesn''t look too off-round from the pics, except that one side, which honestly doesn''t bother me. You should get a lot of fire off this one. Do they have a return policy in case you don''t love it? BTW, I have been looking at similarly sized OECs lately, and the price seems fair.

ETA, my one concern is the symmetry listed as fair to good. Maybe someone else can chime in on this one...but I didn''t think EGL certs listed a range. My stone has an EGL USA cert and the symmerty is just listed as good. And though you would look for VG or EX in a modern stone, I think OECs can look great as long as they have at least good symmetry (I''ve never seen one with more than VG symmetry)...fair starts to not look as nice...
Fair to good is normal for EGL..., maybe not "EGL-USA" they are trying really hard to differntiate themselves from EGL!!!

Fair is very normal for stones that were cut that long ago, especialy smaller carat weight stones...
Plus, just like the unique character this stone has when it is not perfectly round, these type of OEC are full of character when they are graded fair in symmetry.
I usually like the fact that the facets on these stones are not "perfectly" alligned!!! It gives them more orginality!!!
 

simplysplendid

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Date: 1/24/2007 3:22:23 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 1/23/2007 11:05:50 PM
Author: FacetFire
For my tastes, this stone seems right on. I like the chunky, kite-shaped facets, and the specs look pretty good to me. Yes, it''s not perfectly round, but at this size, I think you''ll barely notice. It doesn''t look too off-round from the pics, except that one side, which honestly doesn''t bother me. You should get a lot of fire off this one. Do they have a return policy in case you don''t love it? BTW, I have been looking at similarly sized OECs lately, and the price seems fair.

ETA, my one concern is the symmetry listed as fair to good. Maybe someone else can chime in on this one...but I didn''t think EGL certs listed a range. My stone has an EGL USA cert and the symmerty is just listed as good. And though you would look for VG or EX in a modern stone, I think OECs can look great as long as they have at least good symmetry (I''ve never seen one with more than VG symmetry)...fair starts to not look as nice...
Fair to good is normal for EGL..., maybe not ''EGL-USA'' they are trying really hard to differntiate themselves from EGL!!!

Fair is very normal for stones that were cut that long ago, especialy smaller carat weight stones...
Plus, just like the unique character this stone has when it is not perfectly round, these type of OEC are full of character when they are graded fair in symmetry.
I usually like the fact that the facets on these stones are not ''perfectly'' alligned!!! It gives them more orginality!!!
Hi Diagem, but the cert for this stone is from EGL USA, more precisely EGL LA.. I hope that means no worries..
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 1/24/2007 3:58:01 AM
Author: simplysplendid

Date: 1/24/2007 3:22:23 AM
Author: DiaGem


Date: 1/23/2007 11:05:50 PM
Author: FacetFire
For my tastes, this stone seems right on. I like the chunky, kite-shaped facets, and the specs look pretty good to me. Yes, it''s not perfectly round, but at this size, I think you''ll barely notice. It doesn''t look too off-round from the pics, except that one side, which honestly doesn''t bother me. You should get a lot of fire off this one. Do they have a return policy in case you don''t love it? BTW, I have been looking at similarly sized OECs lately, and the price seems fair.

ETA, my one concern is the symmetry listed as fair to good. Maybe someone else can chime in on this one...but I didn''t think EGL certs listed a range. My stone has an EGL USA cert and the symmerty is just listed as good. And though you would look for VG or EX in a modern stone, I think OECs can look great as long as they have at least good symmetry (I''ve never seen one with more than VG symmetry)...fair starts to not look as nice...
Fair to good is normal for EGL..., maybe not ''EGL-USA'' they are trying really hard to differntiate themselves from EGL!!!

Fair is very normal for stones that were cut that long ago, especialy smaller carat weight stones...
Plus, just like the unique character this stone has when it is not perfectly round, these type of OEC are full of character when they are graded fair in symmetry.
I usually like the fact that the facets on these stones are not ''perfectly'' alligned!!! It gives them more orginality!!!
Hi Diagem, but the cert for this stone is from EGL USA, more precisely EGL LA.. I hope that means no worries..
Then i guess all EGL''s list their symmetry and polish in the same matter..., no worries on this subject.
I am just not so familiariszed with EGL-USA,,,,
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
37,367
OECs are usually not perfectly round; that is the nature of the cut back then. What is the vendor''s return policy? If it turns out that it bothers you, then at least you have the option of returning it. Seriously, I think off-roundness in a stone in that size would not be noticeable. The off-roundness is only in that one corner of the stone. My own OEC isn''t perfectly round but it also isn''t that obvious to the naked eye. Even in its bezel setting, it isn''t noticeable unless you really stare at it in that OCD way that we PSers usually do.

It looks like a very pretty OEC with those huge kite-shaped facet. My only concern is the Fair to Good symmetry. I don''t know crucial that is. Perhaps that EGL lab grading reflects the off-roundness? I don''t know. Nonetheless, I would try to shoot for Good polish and Good symmetry. Anything better than that would take forever to find!
 

simplysplendid

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Hi Chrono,

Thanks for your input. There is a 15 day return period that I can make use of in case I don''t like it. I think I am going to give this a shot. I''ve tried scores of vendors including some of our usual favourites plus some antique jewelry vendors and none could even come close to in terms of meeting my requirements or in some cases, finding me a stone. In many cases, the lack of data/proper pictures from the vendors makes buying an OEC without sighting it first very difficult. In some cases, I don''t even get a response!

Actually, I am not too caught up with the fact that it is slightly off round. I just wanted to know that this characteristic is indeed the norm for OECs. I do love the look of it and this vendor has been extremely helpful and patient so I think this is it.
Thanks to everyone for your help!
 

elmo

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
1,160
I just saw a very beautiful antique cushion with EGL-LA symmetry fair-good. Wouldn''t let that discourage looking at something. However I don''t think you have to take a stone that''s this out of round if it bothers you. It would bother me. To give you a specific idea, I calculate the diameter difference of this on as max-min/min * 100, about 4%. I then looked at a database of several hundred OECs and calculated the same...mean difference was 1.5%, average was 1.8%. A 4% difference puts this one in the bottom 9% there. Depending on your budget, I don''t think it should be hard to find what you''re looking for, harder though to find a vendor who cares about old stones
.
 

FacetFire

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
1,879
So, you''re thinking of going for it? The off-round really doesn''t bother me on this stone...and the symmetry looks good despite the off-round part. I like it!
 

Vix

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
134
SS --

I saw Stci''s thread before yours...sounds like your quest may be nearing its end! Based on what those with more knowledge say and what those pics show, it sounds as if you should definitely bring this baby in for an inspection period!

Will cross my fingers that it''s love at first sight for you two.
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
ATTN:
I just want to point out that the top two pics in this thread are the EXACT SAME PICTURE flipped upside down.... look for identifying marks, they''re the same photo! I haven''t looked to see if the bottom two are the same, but they very well could be.

I don''t know where you got these photos from, but you''re not seeing as much of the stone as you might have been led to believe.
 

Bunnifer

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
227
Hmmm, Cehra''s right...the top two ARE exactly the same photo.

But, the bottom two are different. The lint in those photos are different.
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
11,071
Date: 1/25/2007 10:32:45 AM
Author: Bunnifer
Hmmm, Cehra''s right...the top two ARE exactly the same photo.

But, the bottom two are different. The lint in those photos are different.
lol - let us consult the lint-cam! ;-)
 

mela lu

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2006
Messages
2,481
LOL!

So the one Q that wasn''t answered was, is there an on-line vendor that has some experience with OEC''s?

I too am looking online; as living in Canadia, there are not that many vendors here.

Anyone have suggestions/recos?

thx!
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,367
These vendors listed below specialize in old cut diamonds but it is best to call on the telephone. Also, many have OECs that are not listed on their website but will pull out stones from their vault to see if it matches your requirements.

1. Fay Cullen (I am not hot on their return policy though)
2. Ari at Singlestone (great guy!)
3. Leigh at Antique Engagement Rings (very nice to deal with too)

I also used the PS search function and called WF to call in the diamond if it looked like it had potential.
 

mela lu

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
2,481
Okay, so maybe this is a good thread to ask. I love OEC''s. In fact 2 yrs before I was even engaged, me and the FI were in NY, I was drooling through the diamond district (he was patiently obliging) and that was when I fell.in.love. with the high crowns, chunky facets of the OEC and Old Mine''s.

He ended up proposing with a 1ct modern cushion, which is nice, but didn''t satisfy that love for the high crown "poofy" golfball look that I love.

see this diamond for example: http://antiqueengagementrings.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=1181

So, the Q: In order to satisfy that high crown that I love, but not sacrifice any fire and light reflection, what should be a "red flag" as I look at specs (on paper) with high crowns? What are some tell-tale pitfalls that a high-crown can produce?

thx!

PS. FF I love love love yours. (you must hear that a lot!!!)
 

simplysplendid

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
1,772
Hi there ladies!

I am bringing the stone in to have a look and see. I''d also thought I''d share my internet OEC hunt experience (remember I am buying without sighting it). I don''t mean to be bashing vendors but just want to share that searching over the internet for a little OEC beauty can be very tough:

Whiteflash: Had a great experience over a round ideal - fast response, great pictures, speedy transaction and delivery. So they were the first vendor that I contacted. Unfortunately for OECs, they just could not find one for me. After several emails, several reminders to respond (which they did when I send the reminders to respond, but to tell me that they are searching and I realised that they were searching for cushions on their own database.) Just yesterday (after more than 3 weeks) they responded to tell me that they are unable to help me with my request.

Antique Engagement Rings: Responds to the first email enquiry about a ring but not to subsequent enquiries. I called them about ring sizing for another ring (I was looking to purchase 2 rings, a larger one between 0.60-0.80 and a smaller antique ring). I also went on live chat plus and emailed - No response.

Faycullen - Emailed them on what I am looking for and they came back with an email that asked me to look at their website (which I have done and drooled at least five times over).

Wanna Buy A Watch - No response

Sylvia Antiques - No response

Antique and Estate - You''ve guessed it: No response

A couple of others that I cannot remember (I checked the emails I sent but the email address does not show the company name) - No response

This stone that I am looking at is from Abazias. I used the PS search function, went for small table and reasonable depth and asked about several stones. As Abazias does not carry the stones, he contacted the cutter on my enquiries and sent me the certificates in the meantime. In this case, it is the same cutter that carried all the stones that I was inquiring about. They answered my questions regarding the quality of the stone and ranked them for me. In the end, they came back with two recommendations and I am surprised that they did not recommend the larger and more expensive ones.

I mentioned that I am interested in the stone above so Abazias brought the diamond in house (a little surprised here because I thought they are one of those vendors that do lift and drop without seeing the stone). David, the gentlemen at Abazias, very kindly took the pictures and inspected the stones over the microscope. He also mentioned that the colour and clarity rating from the cert seems accurate. From the day I made the inquiry, David corresponded with me daily, keeping me posted of the status. I asked for an extension to the inspection period to 15 days and he agreed. Excellent service I must say.

As for the stone above, I plugged the specs into the HCA (yes, even though the HCA is not really meant for OECs), it came back with very good scores for an OEC. If I were to assume a small culet, the HCA came back with very good light return, excellent scintillation, excellent fire. If I were to assume a 2% medium culet (the stone above has medium culet), the HCA came back with very good for light return, scintillation and fire. The only thing that does not score well is spread, which is totally acceptable for an OEC. I must say the score worsens with an increasing culet but many other OECS out there does not have a score - HCA just says Fish Eye.

I also compared the specs with the cut chart on gemappraisers.com and most of the specs come up as modern stone Class 2. Crown and Pav came up Class 3 but borderline to Class 2. Culet is Class 3. I agree that the offrounded in terms of percentages may put this stone at the bottom of the list but not in terms of the table and depth.

Anyway, after this searching and internet shopping experience, will I still do business with the no response vendors? Here''s what I think:

Whiteflash - yes, for rounds only. I am thinking of purchasing a round pendant for my mother in law.
AER - they''ve got lovely pieces so I guess I will try again. But I guess I will only be able to purchase something from them if the price happens to the right, the picture happens to be clear and the ring does not need resizing i.e. I will be able to buy something only if I see a ring that I don''t need to ask a question on.
For those above that did not respond - Probably not

Anyway, I am still open to suggestions (hey, there''s no rule that a girl can buy one OEC only right?). As I mentioned above, I would like a ring like Vix''s, small fiery stone in an antique filigree ring under $1200. (In case you wonder why I don''t put my budget together for a bigger stone, well, I find it a little difficult to commit on one large OEC online since, unlike an ideal, there is less information and it is harder to buy one without sighting it.)

Thanks for reading this long post and for your help Ladies!
 

elmo

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
1,160
Date: 1/25/2007 5:17:10 PM
Author: simplysplendid
I would like a ring like Vix''s, small fiery stone in an antique filigree ring under $1200.
Stone and filigree setting for $1200? That''s going to be tough!

I agree with Chrono''s recommendation for Singlestone. I also had a very good experience having Abazias send an old cut to look at, since they''re the only vendor here to list antique stones.

I''m still scratching my head over Fay Cullen. Nice photos, but $200 to return something and a 24 hour inspection period? Right. It''s a joke?

Give me a week or two and I may have a recommendation for another specialist, old stones only though not settings.
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 1/25/2007 3:00:47 PM
Author: mela lu
Okay, so maybe this is a good thread to ask. I love OEC''s. In fact 2 yrs before I was even engaged, me and the FI were in NY, I was drooling through the diamond district (he was patiently obliging) and that was when I fell.in.love. with the high crowns, chunky facets of the OEC and Old Mine''s.

He ended up proposing with a 1ct modern cushion, which is nice, but didn''t satisfy that love for the high crown ''poofy'' golfball look that I love.

see this diamond for example: http://antiqueengagementrings.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=1181

So, the Q: In order to satisfy that high crown that I love, but not sacrifice any fire and light reflection, what should be a ''red flag'' as I look at specs (on paper) with high crowns? What are some tell-tale pitfalls that a high-crown can produce?

thx!

PS. FF I love love love yours. (you must hear that a lot!!!)
you might lose some brilliance with a high crown because the light isn''t going straight back to your eyes as white light but being refracted out at angles as colored light.... my stone has a really big crown and it is really difficult to get shots of just white light return because it''s always either pulling reflected light or dispensing refracted light every which way. But it has the most amazing scint that is mostly color.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,367
Date: 1/25/2007 5:17:10 PM
Author: simplysplendid
Hi there ladies!

Whiteflash: Had a great experience over a round ideal - fast response, great pictures, speedy transaction and delivery. So they were the first vendor that I contacted. Unfortunately for OECs, they just could not find one for me. After several emails, several reminders to respond (which they did when I send the reminders to respond, but to tell me that they are searching and I realised that they were searching for cushions on their own database.) Just yesterday (after more than 3 weeks) they responded to tell me that they are unable to help me with my request.

Here's what I think:

Whiteflash - yes, for rounds only. I am thinking of purchasing a round pendant for my mother in law.
Simplysplendid,
I purchased my OEC through WF. I did a database search through PS looking for an OEC then asked WF to call in the stone. It was not an in-house diamond. The reason I called WF and not another company is because I knew they could run a Sarin report, take Idealscope pictures and magnified pictures. Without all 3, I would not buy an OEC online sight unseen. I dealt with Bob Hoskins, I believe.

A $1200 budget for the complete ring is quite tough. To cut down costs on settings, I purchased mine from Pearlmans from his Estate/pre-owned section. There are lots of excellent deals there. I've read that sometimes, pawn shops might carry old stones. Perhaps you might get lucky there?
 

mela lu

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2006
Messages
2,481
Date: 1/25/2007 11:22:39 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 1/25/2007 3:00:47 PM
Author: mela lu
Okay, so maybe this is a good thread to ask. I love OEC''s. In fact 2 yrs before I was even engaged, me and the FI were in NY, I was drooling through the diamond district (he was patiently obliging) and that was when I fell.in.love. with the high crowns, chunky facets of the OEC and Old Mine''s.

He ended up proposing with a 1ct modern cushion, which is nice, but didn''t satisfy that love for the high crown ''poofy'' golfball look that I love.

see this diamond for example: http://antiqueengagementrings.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=1181

So, the Q: In order to satisfy that high crown that I love, but not sacrifice any fire and light reflection, what should be a ''red flag'' as I look at specs (on paper) with high crowns? What are some tell-tale pitfalls that a high-crown can produce?

thx!

PS. FF I love love love yours. (you must hear that a lot!!!)
you might lose some brilliance with a high crown because the light isn''t going straight back to your eyes as white light but being refracted out at angles as colored light.... my stone has a really big crown and it is really difficult to get shots of just white light return because it''s always either pulling reflected light or dispensing refracted light every which way. But it has the most amazing scint that is mostly color.
Oh, and I lust after your stone toooooooo...it is so unique, beatuiful, and commands attention. Dah-ROOL!!!!!
 

dtnyc

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
1,088
Date: 1/25/2007 5:17:10 PM
Author: simplysplendid
Hi there ladies!
Whiteflash: Had a great experience over a round ideal - fast response, great pictures, speedy transaction and delivery. So they were the first vendor that I contacted. Unfortunately for OECs, they just could not find one for me. After several emails, several reminders to respond (which they did when I send the reminders to respond, but to tell me that they are searching and I realised that they were searching for cushions on their own database.) Just yesterday (after more than 3 weeks) they responded to tell me that they are unable to help me with my request.

Antique Engagement Rings: Responds to the first email enquiry about a ring but not to subsequent enquiries. I called them about ring sizing for another ring (I was looking to purchase 2 rings, a larger one between 0.60-0.80 and a smaller antique ring). I also went on live chat plus and emailed - No response.

Faycullen - Emailed them on what I am looking for and they came back with an email that asked me to look at their website (which I have done and drooled at least five times over).

Wanna Buy A Watch - No response

Sylvia Antiques - No response

Antique and Estate - You''ve guessed it: No response

A couple of others that I cannot remember (I checked the emails I sent but the email address does not show the company name) - No response

This stone that I am looking at is from Abazias. I used the PS search function, went for small table and reasonable depth and asked about several stones. As Abazias does not carry the stones, he contacted the cutter on my enquiries and sent me the certificates in the meantime. In this case, it is the same cutter that carried all the stones that I was inquiring about. They answered my questions regarding the quality of the stone and ranked them for me. In the end, they came back with two recommendations and I am surprised that they did not recommend the larger and more expensive ones.
Did you try calling any of these vendors?

I was looking for an OEC to match the 1 carat that I have because I was thinking about earrings but gave up because of cost and it''s tough to find a twin. WF was not able to help me source one.

I know that Leigh at AER is better on the phone- at a certain point you have to pick up the phone, I think that shows a greater level of serious interest than e-mails (which can just be copied and sent to multiple vendors) and internet requests. I would call Leigh.
 
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