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PLEASE HELP! NEW... COMPARING 2 Diamonds ! ? !

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erik11

Rough_Rock
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May 12, 2009
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Hey everyone...

Yep a newbie, but have been self educating for a couple of months and have seen a handful of diamonds... here is the scenerio...

Local(respected) Jewler #1 ->

showed 3 diamonds .69-.71 ct range... I could see the inclusions under scope... could see 2 were nice color (G) third I tossed out of the mix as i could tell the off minor tint of yellow...noticable anyway... so between the two, I had him save them for me to come on back in to discuss after shopping around... (have not gone back as i was not happy with just "imagining" what the designed ring would look like.. read below)


Local (respected) Jewler #2 ->

showed 2 diamonds .69 - .71 ct range... one had some cloudy swirls (micro bubbles?) inside and the other was again noticeably less color grade than I wanted. I had her find some other diamonds in my parameters that i gave and less than a week later she called for me to come on in and look....

ok... so still with Jewler #2....I decided to begin working with them as I wanted to design the ring around the stone (Jeweler #1 did not have an in house designer and told me that I could take the micro-pave top to one of the rings we liked in the store and have the jeweler out in california place it on top of the style band we liked?) thus why i also stayed with Jeweler #2 Good Choice? I am not too sure... but the lure of already sitting down with their designer helped make that desicion...advice????

so staying with Jewler #2 these are the stones that have been narrowed down to choose from...Both Rounds....


Stone # 1 5.51 x 5.48 x 3.5 Stone # 2 5.58 x 5.56 x 3.5

$3700.00 $3,450.00

Depth % 64.6 Depth % 63
Table % 55 Table % 58
Crown Angle 36 Crown Angle 34.5
Pav. Angle 41 Pav. Angle 42.2
Pav. % 42.5 Pav. % 44
Girdle Sl. Thick Girdle V. Thick

Ct. Wt. .71 Ct. Wt. .70
Color F Color E
Clarity VS2 Clarity VVS2
Cut GIA - Good GIA - Very Good

Floures None Floures None
Polish V Good Polish Excellent
Symmetry V Good Symmetry Excellent


OK... geeesh... there are all the stats the sales lady gave for me to go and research, she said the paper report (not GIA or other grading cert.... but their own) could not leave the store as per policy... so she wrote the above down for me...

Another thing to mention is that she told me that the stones they generally sell are not GIA or otherwise certified... she said that the 4 stores owned by the same fellow use the same equipment as GIA and other certification places and do their own grading that matches with those certification places? ( I WAS AND STILL AM CONFUSED ABOUT THIS> SHOULD I QUESTION MORE? )

So if it comes down to these two... 1 also has a lazer etched serial number on it (as per the jewler on their graded stones) and the other has not... she said that the girdle was too thin to have the lazer etch a serial # on it?????

HELP ME OUT EVERYONE...

Let me know which of the 2 stones is better/ hold value/ and what am i forgetting or missing here with this sales lady....?

Also, If I am getting a custom setting in platnium (estimated from designer/micro pave design $1950-$2250) and then one of these 2 stones, I am wondering if there is some sort of negotigation on either the metal / design / stone that can or usually takes place?

Sorry everyone for the long post... but if i am going to do this the right way... one time... i want the best for my lady!

thanks for any speedy replies or questions for me for further clarification...

Regards..
 
Well, I think you might could get a better quality stone if you were to choose an online vendor. These two stones are hearts and arrows, with the WF being an ACA (i have 2 from this company and they are stunning). Have a look at some of the search tools on here as well as they local diamond experts.

Whiteflash

0.745 H VS2 1.4-EX
ex-ex-ex-vg 0
H&A
ACA 61% 57% 34.6° 40.8° thn-med f id id no 5.84-5.87x3.57 AGS $2675*S

James Allen

0.82 H VS2 1.8-EX
ex-ex-vg-vg 0
H&A 62.2% 55.2% 35.1° 40.8° thn-sl thi no id id neg 5.98*6.04*3.74 AGS $3080
 
The one you posted look a little deep to me.

First one- 4.1 on the cut advisor

Second- 5.2

Folks around here like numbers below 2 for the most part.
 
Date: 5/12/2009 8:10:42 AM
Author:erik11
Hey everyone...

Yep a newbie, but have been self educating for a couple of months and have seen a handful of diamonds... here is the scenerio...

Local(respected) Jewler #1 ->

showed 3 diamonds .69-.71 ct range... I could see the inclusions under scope... could see 2 were nice color (G) third I tossed out of the mix as i could tell the off minor tint of yellow...noticable anyway... so between the two, I had him save them for me to come on back in to discuss after shopping around... (have not gone back as i was not happy with just 'imagining' what the designed ring would look like.. read below)


Local (respected) Jewler #2 ->

showed 2 diamonds .69 - .71 ct range... one had some cloudy swirls (micro bubbles?) inside and the other was again noticeably less color grade than I wanted. I had her find some other diamonds in my parameters that i gave and less than a week later she called for me to come on in and look....

ok... so still with Jewler #2....I decided to begin working with them as I wanted to design the ring around the stone (Jeweler #1 did not have an in house designer and told me that I could take the micro-pave top to one of the rings we liked in the store and have the jeweler out in california place it on top of the style band we liked?) thus why i also stayed with Jeweler #2 Good Choice? I am not too sure... but the lure of already sitting down with their designer helped make that desicion...advice????

so staying with Jewler #2 these are the stones that have been narrowed down to choose from...Both Rounds....


Stone # 1 5.51 x 5.48 x 3.5 Stone # 2 5.58 x 5.56 x 3.5

$3700.00 $3,450.00

Depth % 64.6 Depth % 63
Table % 55 Table % 58
Crown Angle 36 Crown Angle 34.5
Pav. Angle 41 Pav. Angle 42.2
Pav. % 42.5 Pav. % 44
Girdle Sl. Thick Girdle V. Thick

Ct. Wt. .71 Ct. Wt. .70
Color F Color E
Clarity VS2 Clarity VVS2
Cut GIA - Good GIA - Very Good

Floures None Floures None
Polish V Good Polish Excellent
Symmetry V Good Symmetry Excellent


OK... geeesh... there are all the stats the sales lady gave for me to go and research, she said the paper report (not GIA or other grading cert.... but their own) could not leave the store as per policy... so she wrote the above down for me...

Another thing to mention is that she told me that the stones they generally sell are not GIA or otherwise certified... she said that the 4 stores owned by the same fellow use the same equipment as GIA and other certification places and do their own grading that matches with those certification places? ( I WAS AND STILL AM CONFUSED ABOUT THIS> SHOULD I QUESTION MORE? )

So if it comes down to these two... 1 also has a lazer etched serial number on it (as per the jewler on their graded stones) and the other has not... she said that the girdle was too thin to have the lazer etch a serial # on it?????

HELP ME OUT EVERYONE...

Let me know which of the 2 stones is better/ hold value/ and what am i forgetting or missing here with this sales lady....?

Also, If I am getting a custom setting in platnium (estimated from designer/micro pave design $1950-$2250) and then one of these 2 stones, I am wondering if there is some sort of negotigation on either the metal / design / stone that can or usually takes place?

Sorry everyone for the long post... but if i am going to do this the right way... one time... i want the best for my lady!

thanks for any speedy replies or questions for me for further clarification...

Regards..
Click to expand...
Erik, assuming the numbers above run from left to right for each diamond, I would pass on both - they are both too deep and if I am reading the angle range rightly for the first, it is not a good combo and the pavilion angle for the second is much too steep.
 
Pass on both stones.
 
Agree with Lorelei and Iwanna. Too deep and you can do better for the same money online. As far as the store telling you that their in-house grading matches with GIA, it is a sales pitch. If they were that confident in the stones, why not just get GIA certification? They might use the same equipment and criteria, but that doesn't mean they have the experience and same level of skill. I'd suggest sticking with diamonds that are certified by either GIA or AGS. And the line about the girdle being too thin to etch the number is either a poor sales line or a bald faced lie. One stone has a Sl Thick girdle and the other stone has a Very Thick girdle (which is not desirable anyways) so it should be easier to etch a number than on a Thin or Medium girdle, which GIA and AGS do all the time on their graded stones.

OK, they have a designer, but nothing you have reported about that jeweler would give me any confidence in their ability to provide "the best for your lady". They showed you poorly cut stones, tried to convince you that they had the same level of skill and knowledge as the most respected grading lab in the world and then lied about why a diamond was not laser etched. You'd get a much better finished product with a PS vendor and at a lower cost.
 
what is a PS store?


and should i ask the place I have been going to, that has the designer, to either provide me with stones that come with AIG certs...?
or it will be a no go with their store?
 
ALso everyone... thank you again for all your answers.... i am worried though about a online vendor? how can i be sure of where the feathers are in the stone or carbon inclusions ect????
 
Erik - at the top of this page, you can do loose diamond searches. The results you get will be "PS Vendors". Pricescope has inhouse diamonds as well as these vendors and you can select and sort any way you wish with the results. I''ve been working with Whiteflash in the last couple days and they have been exceptional. Whiteflash and Good ol Gold have various pictures in their results that will allow you to make decisions that are leagues more informed than through a local jewler. You''ll also get a much better price and I think most have decent return policies. When you look at the results, you can see a picture of the actual diamond, any inclusions it may have, and Whiteflash, at least, will look at the diamond for you and ''be your eyes''. They will let you know what they see. Your online selection is far more diverse than any local jewler.
 
Just as an example, here are a couple of stones from PriceScope vendors in the same size range as the ones at the jewelry store, but much better cut. Quality of cut is what makes a diamond sparkle and shine.

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1445176.htm#

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4779/

This will give you a good idea of what kind of information these vendors provide for your purchase.

You can certainly work with a local store if it makes you more comfortable, but I would insist on GIA Excellent cut or AGS0 certifed diamonds. Where are you located, maybe we can suggest a couple of vendors for you? Many of the PriceScope vendors have storefronts and you could go visit.
 
Date: 5/12/2009 10:38:06 AM
Author: erik11
ALso everyone... thank you again for all your answers.... i am worried though about a online vendor? how can i be sure of where the feathers are in the stone or carbon inclusions ect????
Click to expand...
A trusted vendor such as some of the trusted PS vendors will guide you through that - indeed all aspects of diamond purchasing.
 
I''ll leave the comments on stone quality to the experts, but I''ll gladly share my experience.

I found an experienced and reputable local jeweler who glad to work with me on designing the ring, regardless of where I got the stone.
I bought the stone online, and saved 20-40% compared to what I''ve been shown at B&M stores. I''m very happy with the stone, and the jeweler said that there no way for him to sell me one at close to that price.

The jeweler also works with Jewelers Mutual, so he helped me with the insurance, and if it ever needs to be replaced, it can be done through him as well.


Disclaimer: I have not seen the final polished ring yet, thats tomorrow, just drawings and casting models until now.
 
I'm not sure how your local jewelers earned the 'respected' honorary... I'm sure they must be doing a pretty good sales job, selling less than perfect diamonds to all and sundry. But you want the 'best' for the lady and this is the place you could leverage on the knowledge and experience of diamond enthusiasts. The last thing they wd do is to recommend you 'dodgy' online vendors.

But since you've had no prior experience with online vendors, spend some time here in PS getting to know what to look out for in online vendors. E.g. level of details in product/diamond info, return policy, customer service, online reputation, testimonials, samples of their work etc.

I bought my first diamond online. Thanks to an online community who walked me through like an army of personal advisors, I didn't have to deal with pushy sales people, I avoided looking at diamonds under deceptive store lightings, got to compare my diamond & setting options at my fingertips at anytime I want, and finally settled for a stunner I kept going back to, all for an amazing price!

Btw it's best if you could get her input as well.
 
Thanks Again,,,

Are the stones found online also certified GIA... what is the other industry standard for certification?

Everyone has been great in replying to my questions.

I am disappointed with the sales folks at the jewler I was speaking of...I am totally glad i made her jot down those #''s and ask others about them!

Basically they gave me 2 diamonds that are great color, no real inclusions that I saw (and I looked!) and tried to scam me with choosing a stone that had a crappy cut .... bummer
 
AGS and GIA are the top two labs. AGS cut grade standards are considered preferable by many here, GIA's cut grade can allow for some less desirable proportion configurations so each diamond needs to be evaluated carefully. Both labs are reliable for colour and clarity grading.

You can read more below on how the grading labs rank

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/grading.asp
 
Date: 5/12/2009 8:10:42 AM
Author:erik11

OK... geeesh... there are all the stats the sales lady gave for me to go and research, she said the paper report (not GIA or other grading cert.... but their own) could not leave the store as per policy... so she wrote the above down for me...

Another thing to mention is that she told me that the stones they generally sell are not GIA or otherwise certified... she said that the 4 stores owned by the same fellow use the same equipment as GIA and other certification places and do their own grading that matches with those certification places? ( I WAS AND STILL AM CONFUSED ABOUT THIS> SHOULD I QUESTION MORE? )
Click to expand...
tell her she can use the store certificates for toilet papers.
 
When I click link for Whiteflash, it gives me a strong warning of entering the site as an "information stealer" and am using a Mac with Firefox...

anyone else come across the same prob?
 
thanks stone cold... Can you tell me how diamonds are shipped to your door? UPS FED EX.... you have to sign etc?
 
Depends on the vendor which shipping company they use. They will require your signature for the goods and will not leave it at your door.
 
Date: 5/13/2009 11:20:58 AM
Author: erik11
thanks stone cold... Can you tell me how diamonds are shipped to your door? UPS FED EX.... you have to sign etc?
Click to expand...
Ask the vendor in your particular case, often diamonds are shipped to the courier''s holding station where you can pick the package up - you will need ID.
 
OK EVERYONE... I E-MAILED THE SALESPERSON MY CONCERNS AND SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT YOU ALL GRACIOUSLY BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION TO INQUIRE ABOUT... I AGAIN THANK EVERY ONE OF YOU....I WOULD LIKE TO POST MY EMAIL TO SAID SALSPERSON AND THE REPLY I GOT TO SEE WHAT ALL OF YOU THINK... AGAIN ANY ADVICE YOU CAN GIVE WOULD BE GREAT... ALL REFERENCES ARE TO THE 2 STONES THAT WE SPOKE ABOUT EARLIER...AND ARE AT THE TOP OF THIS THREAD....(i am sorry this is long... but it means alot to me that you are all chiming in to help!)

MY EMAIL TO SALESPERSON...

I wanted to touch base with you on a couple of things as I have been busier than expected this past week and a half. End of school wrapping up....planning, etc...

In regards to the stones we have been looking at. There are a couple areas of concern for me as a potential buyer of a $3,400-$3,700+ diamond from one of your stores. I took a look at the #'s, angles, depth, etc of the 2 stones we were sure to set aside with the $200 refundable deposit.

The Depth of the two stones are Fair to Good.

The Girdle of the two stones are Slightly Thick to Very Thick

Only 1 is laser etched, not sure why the other one is not?

Neither are GIA certified with certificates to go with them (i understand your store's stance on grading their own but not too sure why not just sell the industry standard GIA or AGS certified stones)

Cut makes the sparkle and I am looking for a stone that has just that... color could waiver from where we are at now... Inclusions, well again I would have to view, but trust you in knowing where they would be ok with me...

As of right now, I am not set to choose between those 2 until we take a look at possibly others that also fit the concerns above?



E-MAIL FROM SALESPERSON BACK TO ME...

Nice hearing from you. Sounds like you're doing some more great research in the midst of your busy school schedule.

As far as the laser inscription goes, if you'd rather go with one with an inscription then we can choose a different one or have that one done for you. There was a period when we were having maintenance on the machine and we may have received this one during that period.

I know you mentioned that you're familiar with why we do our own grading on site. We do provide a guarantee ($1000) any diamond were to be graded elsewhere and come back lower than we say it is. Our own grading is the most time and price friendly, and these are also benefits that we pass along to you, the customer. We are happy to have any stone graded with GIA, but it costs us $125 each time and doesn't even include some of the other characteristics that we like to disclose. That is why we do have some stones sent to GIA, to show that we are in-line with the GIA grading standards.

I don't want to pass over what is important to you, but you have already done amazing research and compared many stones that are far beyond the quality of most stones. I'm not sure where you found the information about the depth resulting in fair-good cut grades, but I know that given our grading guarantee we wouldn't document false information, and I'm sure there's a reason why what you've found doesn't match with our results. I'm not in the certification department to know first hand, but will certainly do anything to get us some answers. I can continue to compare and look with you, but I have to let you know that what we've already found has both amazing beauty and tremendous value. It's also hard to not get caught up with diamond grades on paper. You mentioned in you're e-mail that cut and sparkle are what you are looking for, and these two stones have just that and are gorgeous! The grades are one thing, but seeing the diamond to make sure it sparkles in person is the true test. I mentioned my pick for you, but I know that you were still going between the two.

I'm happy to help and do whatever you'd like to move forward.
 
Erik, neither of the diamonds in question are well cut and they are also too deep which can make the stones look small for thw weight. If you aren''t sure try this exercise. If there is a Jareds closeby go and check out their Peerless AGS0 cut grade diamonds, also Hearts on Fire if there is a dealer near you. That way you will be looking at diamonds of known cut quality in order to make a good comparison.
 
Bumpity Bump for anyone else to chime in on the e-mail exchange I had with the salesperson pertaining to these two diamonds... Thank you Lorelei for helping out!

Sounds like all a sales pitch with no real substantial backing up ? Are they trying to question my research and knowledge?

Why would a local jewler try to pull such a thing and sell these stones with no cert. and tell me they dont know how i came across a good to fair at best rating for the cut on the 2 diamonds they are showing me to purchase (with the dimensions that they provided!)?

thanks again for all the information and help... anyone ?
 
Date: 5/14/2009 7:02:47 AM
Author: erik11
Bumpity Bump for anyone else to chime in on the e-mail exchange I had with the salesperson pertaining to these two diamonds... Thank you Lorelei for helping out!

Sounds like all a sales pitch with no real substantial backing up ? Are they trying to question my research and knowledge?

Why would a local jewler try to pull such a thing and sell these stones with no cert. and tell me they dont know how i came across a good to fair at best rating for the cut on the 2 diamonds they are showing me to purchase (with the dimensions that they provided!)?

thanks again for all the information and help... anyone ?
Click to expand...
Pretty much, maybe they don't even have the knowledge you now have, this isn't uncommon. They just want to do whatever it takes to make you commit to a sale.
 
Lorelei,

Do you suggest just getting back the deposit i gave to "hold" those 2 diamonds (as they stipulated I should do, again to get their sale!)?

If so, revert to other places in my area?

Also ... I am wondering about Whiteflash etc that i have been poking around on their sites.... alot of the stones that Would fit my bill seem not to have any pics...

with the knowledge i do now have, and after looking at numerous stones and seeing the types of imperfections etc... how could i then go a head and make that decision to buy from online.?

tahnks again
 
Date: 5/14/2009 7:28:26 AM
Author: erik11
Lorelei,

Do you suggest just getting back the deposit i gave to 'hold' those 2 diamonds (as they stipulated I should do, again to get their sale!)?

If so, revert to other places in my area?

Also ... I am wondering about Whiteflash etc that i have been poking around on their sites.... alot of the stones that Would fit my bill seem not to have any pics...

with the knowledge i do now have, and after looking at numerous stones and seeing the types of imperfections etc... how could i then go a head and make that decision to buy from online.?

tahnks again
Click to expand...
Erik, those diamonds are not well cut and you can do better for sure. Only you can decide what is best to do, but I would certainly consider getting the deposit back and starting again.

What exactly are you looking for concerning colour, carat, clarity etc and budget? Maybe we could suggest some diamonds online which might be suitable for you?

If you are worried about visible inclusions, a trusted vendor can advise you with in house diamonds.
 
well... I was thinking

.68 - .75 ct

E - G Color

VVs2 - vs1 Clarity (no inclusions in table... could be towards edge to be coverd by a prong?)

Cut would love to be ideal...
 
Date: 5/14/2009 7:35:12 AM
Author: erik11
well... I was thinking

.68 - .75 ct

E - G Color

VVs2 - vs1 Clarity (no inclusions in table... could be towards edge to be coverd by a prong?)

Cut would love to be ideal...
Click to expand...
What is the budget for the diamond Erik?
 
I really don''t have one... in those perameters I know what i have seen online (without pics) and what i have seen in the stores...I can say that the stones I have seen online are at least $700-1000 cheaper...only prob is that I cant view pics of them to see inclusions etc....

The two stones listed in the post, are somewhat of a guide for pricing of in store prices....
 
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