Please help me choose a blue sapphire!

[orchidmantis]

Hello all!
I'm a new member here, been a HUGE fan of colored stones (mainly sapphires) and found the PS community! Really happy to be here seeing all your gorgeous candies
This is the first discussion I'm posting, and I'm looking to buy a 1ct sized blue sapphire. I love cornflower to vivid blue sapphires, and found two viable options that fit my budget and suit my taste.
The two stones I found are:
1. Low-temperature heated 1.14ct vivid royal blue sapphire
2. Unheated 1.07ct vivid blue (but seems more cornflowerish? to me) sapphire + comes with local cert (EGLab)

Prices are almost identical and the vendor of #1 says that it has a slight silky, cloudy effect to the stone. The vendor of #2 has mentioned that the sapphire isn't sleepy and has a small inclusion on the bottom of the pavilion (see 5th video).

Here are the videos:

https://imgur.com/a/OchZmL0

https://imgur.com/a/av53hri

I have heard that unheated stones do fetch a premium in the industry, but since heated sapphires are quite the norm, I was wondering which one seems better given that the prices are the same. What do you think? Honestly I love both of them but that might be just because I like blue
Any thoughts are welcome!

 

[Rfisher]

It’s hard to compare multiple vendors sapphires and their picture setups!

On top of monitor replication variances -
Do you live in area with similar lighting environments/ latitude to the vendor to expect similar experience?

If I were interested in the oval - and was setting it north/south instead of e/w, I’d sure want to see it setting that way and on back of hand in both indirect natural and artificial lightings.

I’d be curious how violet the 1.07 goes, and if it desaturates greatly in different lightings.

No one like hearing it - I know I don’t - can you get both and return the one you don’t like as much?

 

[orchidmantis]

It’s hard to compare multiple vendors sapphires and their picture setups!

On top of monitor replication variances -
Do you live in area with similar lighting environments/ latitude to the vendor to expect similar experience?

If I were interested in the oval - and was setting it north/south instead of e/w, I’d sure want to see it setting that way and on back of hand in both indirect natural and artificial lightings.

I’d be curious how violet the 1.07 goes, and if it desaturates greatly in different lightings.

No one like hearing it - I know I don’t - can you get both and return the one you don’t like as much?

Thanks @Rfisher for sharing your thoughts!
Good point, I was a bit concerned about that part too, so I've currently requested for additional pics faced north-south. I have a oval teal sapphire of a similar cut, so I am aware of how there may be some blacked-out areas when flipped

Sri Lanka definitely has waayy more sun than where I live in, so I am expecting some darker tones than seen in the videos for both sapphires. TBH I don't think #2 would be that dark IRL but #1 probably would be, right?

I've asked the vendor and he told me that it isn't that violet/purplish IRL, which I am okay with as long as it isn't the 2nd dominant color. I personally do think a slight violet is pretty in blue sapphires!

The returning policy does seem important, I should discuss that further!
Thank you so much!

 

[Avondale]

I actually have a sapphire that's comparable to the second one. It behaves in a very similar manner. Outdoors and in sunlight it's a just like a cornflower, indoor in warm light it shifts towards violet. I wonder if the 1.07 fluoresces under UV, seems to be common with shifters from Sri Lanka. Anyway, it's a beautiful stone, and it's glowy, and if it is, in fact, that similar to mine in real life, chances are you're gonna love it.

Regardless, the 1.14 has the superior colour. Even if you account for differences in cameras and screens, this is the colour that's universally more desirable and thus more expensive, and this is why this stone is priced the same as the unheated stone. Love the small table and the puffy crown, too.

If I was choosing, I'd probably go with it. But here's the thing: 1. I don't care about heating, while some people do, and 2. I don't mind a sapphire that gets dark in low light. And this one will. Images on a bright day in the tropics with tweezers will show the colour at its brightest, most vibrant. If you shape your expectations around that video, it's likely that you'll be disappointed when you first see the stone with your own eyes, as it will seem darker and less saturated. That's also the nature of phone cameras, they exaggerate the blues because, you know, people like blue skies in their photos.

Acquiring more videos first is a good step. In the meantime, check this post that shows another PSer's sapphire and how it looks in vendor photos versus her photos.

Another thing I believe will be useful to you is this thread about the intricacies of buying from Sri Lanka vendors. It's a bit old now but a lot of things still apply.

 

[LilAlex]

I agree with everything said above already. Good points there.

If funds are limiting, finding a fine heated blue is way easier than unheated and it looks like you found a nice one up top. What are the dimensions?

Cell phone photos and video love blue so it will look less saturated in your hands but I agree that color seems pretty close to ideal. I would want a report on that, too, to confirm it is genuine and heat-only, etc.

I would spend more for unheated but I would not choose the less beautiful of two stones in front of me (I don't think?) based upon absence of heat treatment. For corundum, any treatment beyond heat is an absolute deal-breaker for me.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I agree with everyone else... it depends on how important untreated material is in your opinion (and it sounds like it's really not a significant factor for you). So that being said, and taking into account we can only tell so much from pix/vids, if that top vid is anywhere near accurate, that stone is pretty close to perfection color-wise. A little silk is no biggie (IMO), as long as we don't cross into cloudy territory. I'm not seeing that. I feel like the second stone in person is going to be desaturated and gray-violet leaning under certain lighting (as avondale said). I don't love the pavilion feather either. So that's why you're seeing comparable pricing. The first stone looks far superior, but it's heated. The second stone looks inferior, but it's untreated. Taking your budget into consideration, I'd rather have the better looking stone regardless of the heating.

 

[orchidmantis]

I actually have a sapphire that's comparable to the second one. It behaves in a very similar manner. Outdoors and in sunlight it's a just like a cornflower, indoor in warm light it shifts towards violet. I wonder if the 1.07 fluoresces under UV, seems to be common with shifters from Sri Lanka. Anyway, it's a beautiful stone, and it's glowy, and if it is, in fact, that similar to mine in real life, chances are you're gonna love it.

Regardless, the 1.14 has the superior colour. Even if you account for differences in cameras and screens, this is the colour that's universally more desirable and thus more expensive, and this is why this stone is priced the same as the unheated stone. Love the small table and the puffy crown, too.

If I was choosing, I'd probably go with it. But here's the thing: 1. I don't care about heating, while some people do, and 2. I don't mind a sapphire that gets dark in low light. And this one will. Images on a bright day in the tropics with tweezers will show the colour at its brightest, most vibrant. If you shape your expectations around that video, it's likely that you'll be disappointed when you first see the stone with your own eyes, as it will seem darker and less saturated. That's also the nature of phone cameras, they exaggerate the blues because, you know, people like blue skies in their photos.

Acquiring more videos first is a good step. In the meantime, check this post that shows another PSer's sapphire and how it looks in vendor photos versus her photos.

Another thing I believe will be useful to you is this thread about the intricacies of buying from Sri Lanka vendors. It's a bit old now but a lot of things still apply.

Thanks for sharing!
Ooh would it be possible to see your sapphire? Sounds like a lovely gem!
I do love the velvety-blue of #1, only concern is that it might look too dark under normal light. I'll wait a bit more to decide after acquiring more videos, following your advice!

 

[orchidmantis]

I agree with everything said above already. Good points there.

If funds are limiting, finding a fine heated blue is way easier than unheated and it looks like you found a nice one up top. What are the dimensions?

Cell phone photos and video love blue so it will look less saturated in your hands but I agree that color seems pretty close to ideal. I would want a report on that, too, to confirm it is genuine and heat-only, etc.

I would spend more for unheated but I would not choose the less beautiful of two stones in front of me (I don't think?) based upon absence of heat treatment. For corundum, any treatment beyond heat is an absolute deal-breaker for me.

Thanks for your feedback!

Its dimensions are 6.9*5.3*3.9mm, which I think has good face up for its weight.
If I get the 1.14ct, I do plan on sending it to a lab immediately to test for treatments (just in case it's a BE heated stone)

The only think I'm concerned about is that it might look way darker under normal lighting, which is why I'm having trouble deciding between the two. Also I personally do prefer a brillant cut pavilion over a step cut, so I like the cut more for #2

But then again, after hearing from you that it's color is more beautiful, I think I'm leaning towards #1 now!

 

[LilAlex]

^ I don't think that first one will be dark. I with they had rocked it around a bit in the video so you'd get a better sense of how forgiving or unforgiving the viewing angle is -- that's not an "actual" parameter but would give you an indication of the suboptimal appearance.

I agree with your assessment on the face-up size for the first one. In the one-ct range, you certainly don't want a small-for-weight stone.

Second stone looks like a step-cut pavilion in the few reflection flashes I can catch in that video. Almost all corundum is mixed cut with brilliant crown and step-cut pavilion. And that would be expected cut for this rounded cushion. It's just that there are a million tiny facets on the pavilion in this case.

 

[Avondale]

Ooh would it be possible to see your sapphire? Sounds like a lovely gem!

Sure!

This is indirect light outdoors:


This is sunlight:


And this is candlelight - brings out the violet undertones to the maximum:


In real life my home isn't lit by candles, so you don't see that drastic of a shift, but it definitely shifts.

And again, keep in mind the camera overdoes it with the blue. I'm giving you one more photo that I spent some time editing back when I took it so that it displays the colour more realistically. I hope this will give you an idea just how much a camera can boost a sapphire's blue.

The only think I'm concerned about is that it might look way darker under normal lighting, which is why I'm having trouble deciding between the two.

In case you haven't already, ask for a video in incandescent light indoors and in low light, as in, under a desk or something. This will give you an idea of what the gem looks like at its worst. If it looks okay-ish and acceptable, chances are you'll be happy with it most of the time.

Of course, all of this talk is only applicable provided the videos you are being sent aren't intentionally manipulated to show an unrealistic colour. It's been known to happen, so check the reviews for the vendors you're working with.

 

[orchidmantis]

I agree with everyone else... it depends on how important untreated material is in your opinion (and it sounds like it's really not a significant factor for you). So that being said, and taking into account we can only tell so much from pix/vids, if that top vid is anywhere near accurate, that stone is pretty close to perfection color-wise. A little silk is no biggie (IMO), as long as we don't cross into cloudy territory. I'm not seeing that. I feel like the second stone in person is going to be desaturated and gray-violet leaning under certain lighting (as avondale said). I don't love the pavilion feather either. So that's why you're seeing comparable pricing. The first stone looks far superior, but it's heated. The second stone looks inferior, but it's untreated. Taking your budget into consideration, I'd rather have the better looking stone regardless of the heating.

Sure!

This is indirect light outdoors:


This is sunlight:


And this is candlelight - brings out the violet undertones to the maximum:


In real life my home isn't lit by candles, so you don't see that drastic of a shift, but it definitely shifts.

And again, keep in mind the camera overdoes it with the blue. I'm giving you one more photo that I spent some time editing back when I took it so that it displays the colour more realistically. I hope this will give you an idea just how much a camera can boost a sapphire's blue.





In case you haven't already, ask for a video in incandescent light indoors and in low light, as in, under a desk or something. This will give you an idea of what the gem looks like at its worst. If it looks okay-ish and acceptable, chances are you'll be happy with it most of the time.

Of course, all of this talk is only applicable provided the videos you are being sent aren't intentionally manipulated to show an unrealistic colour. It's been known to happen, so check the reviews for the vendors you're working with.

Wow! It's a really nice color, thank you so much for sharing and even adding in an edited version for me! It really helped a lot

I actually love the violet undertones as well, I think it's really cool and adds a touch of magic to the stone! Natural cornflower (the actual flower) has some violet, so I think it goes well the name too!

Ok I'll try to ask for more photos, thanks for your advice!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Wow! It's a really nice color, thank you so much for sharing and even adding in an edited version for me! It really helped a lot

I actually love the violet undertones as well, I think it's really cool and adds a touch of magic to the stone! Natural cornflower (the actual flower) has some violet, so I think it goes well the name too!

Ok I'll try to ask for more photos, thanks for your advice!

@Avondale's ring is simply gorgeous, and the stone looks to be a true cornflower shade to me (I don't see any gray, even in her "desaturated" photo). I just have a feeling that 2nd stone you shared is not going to compare in person, but it certainly doesn't hurt to ask for more photos. Just be sure you have a generous return policy if you decide to buy. I've seen too many sapphires look decent in these types of vids, only to disappoint in person. To me, a sapphire had better leap off the screen at you for it to be worth considering. Anyone else feel that way? lol Anyway, good luck!

 

[orchidmantis]

@Avondale's ring is simply gorgeous, and the stone looks to be a true cornflower shade to me (I don't see any gray, even in her "desaturated" photo). I just have a feeling that 2nd stone you shared is not going to compare in person, but it certainly doesn't hurt to ask for more photos. Just be sure you have a generous return policy if you decide to buy. I've seen too many sapphires look decent in these types of vids, only to disappoint in person. To me, a sapphire had better leap off the screen at you for it to be worth considering. Anyone else feel that way? lol Anyway, good luck!

Thank you @Autumn in New England for sharing your thoughts!

Yes, I'm definitely gonna ask for more pics! I've also contacted more vendors to see what other options they have
I'm also looking through the PS list of recommended vendors to see if they have anything that fits my requirements!

 

[Avondale]

I just have a feeling that 2nd stone you shared is not going to compare in person

I'm curious, why do you think that? I don't mean that in a way that I disagree, more, what clues did you spot in the photos that give it away and make you doubt?

@orchidmantis are you comfortable sharing the ballpark of the asking price of these two sapphires? It's valuable information for the rest of us when we go shopping.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I'm curious, why do you think that? I don't mean that in a way that I disagree, more, what clues did you spot in the photos that give it away and make you doubt?

@orchidmantis are you comfortable sharing the ballpark of the asking price of these two sapphires? It's valuable information for the rest of us when we go shopping.

I hope OP won't think I'm picking the stone apart, because it could be exactly what she's after in person! And these are just my opinions based on personal experience and solely from viewing the vids provided. As you said, phones these days really enhance cool tones. So if a blue is going to be "good" in person, it had better wow you in media. If it's going to be "ideal" in person, it had better burn your retinas in media. Then you also have to consider that vendors typically only share media of stones looking their best, and also sometimes "adjust" it. These vids just look unnatural and forced to me, and the stone still doesn't look great (especially in that 3rd vid of the 2nd stone). That's not to say anything nefarious is going on; I just don't trust the calibration. Plus, all the vids of the 2nd stone are poor quality (at least on my end).

That being said, and as much as I love cornflower hues like yours, I tend to gravitate towards the medium-dark peacock or velvet shades (the vivid saturation of a royal blue without the darker tone). So I might have a different criteria. Ideally, I'm shooting for a 6/6. But that may not be what OP is after. If she's looking for a fine cornflower, I'd want to see something around a 4 or 5/6. But if I had to guess, I'd say the 2nd stone is probably going to be more of a 4/4. Not terrible! I just think, if that ends up being true, she can maybe do better. Knowing the prices and country of the vendor will help, as you said!

 

[LD]

@Rfisher has made a critical point that is nearly always overlooked. Do you live somewhere sunny? Many sapphires look amazing in a hot country but the same gem in the UK (for example) can look dreadful. The grey light in the UK seriously affects how a gem will look so consider your locality if you need to and maybe lower expectations if that will play a part.

 

[Pretty Facets]

@Rfisher has made a critical point that is nearly always overlooked. Do you live somewhere sunny? Many sapphires look amazing in a hot country but the same gem in the UK (for example) can look dreadful. The grey light in the UK seriously affects how a gem will look so consider your locality if you need to and maybe lower expectations if that will play a part.

Totally agree with this.

 

[FallenPecanLeaves]

@Rfisher has made a critical point that is nearly always overlooked. Do you live somewhere sunny? Many sapphires look amazing in a hot country but the same gem in the UK (for example) can look dreadful. The grey light in the UK seriously affects how a gem will look so consider your locality if you need to and maybe lower expectations if that will play a part.

This is so true. I have a tiny silky sapphire I barely wore when I lived in a cloudier/rainier place because it looked more grey & violet, but where I live now (in the desert) it looks like I popped a glowy chunk out of the deepest clear blue sky. It is amazing how environmental lighting changes them so much!

 

[Pretty Facets]

This is so true. I have a tiny silky sapphire I barely wore when I lived in a cloudier/rainier place because it looked more grey & violet, but where I live now (in the desert) it looks like I popped a glowy chunk out of the deepest clear blue sky. It is amazing how environmental lighting changes them so much!

Cool....so, my suggestion would be:

If someone is from less sunny countries like Europe, go for lighter colors. Ex:- Pastel blue, cornflower blue when it comes to blue sapphires.

If someone is from more sunny countries like Middle East, Asia, go for darker colors. Ex:- Royal blue, Peacock blue sapphires.