Please help assess this 2.04 ct stone

[Lal1]

Hi,

First of all, I'm very thankful for Pricescope. My engagement ring was purchased almost 10 years ago after having done some research here. Over the years, I keep coming back to this forum to assist me in some other stone purchases.

My friend is now looking at buying a 2carat + stone. He wants to purchase from Blue Nile.
I am wondering if I can get some help with this. I have narrowed down to this particular stone:

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD03222615

Specs:
2.04 ct G SI1
GIA cert
cut/polish/symmetry - all excellent
fluorescence strong blue
table 59%
depth 59.4%
crown angle 32.5
pavilion angle 41
thin-med girdle


I have asked for more information on this stone. I asked to confirm that this stone is eye clean and to assess the effect of fluorescence on the stone- to which the response is that it is indeed eye clean and there is no negative impact due to fluorescence.

I have asked a few times for additional images - such as , at the minimum, a 10x loupe image. I suppose with a 2 ct stone purchase, I feel a little uneasy just purchasing based on the numbers on the cert. At the moment, I'm still waiting for a response.

I'm wondering about the numbers - I'm not quite sure about the 59% table against a 59.4% depth - but I suppose the crown and pavilion angles have compensated for this? I believe the HCA is 1.1 with all parameters rated as excellent except for scintillation. I'm going to guess that this stone is going to face up with greater brilliance as well?

At this moment, I feel a little uncertain - especially since all my former purchases (from other websites ) have come with more information - loupes/scope images etc to confirm that the stone will perform well. However, my friend is wanting to purchase from blue nile and since this is going to be a 20K purchase, we want to make sure it's the right decision.

Can anyone comment at this moment, just based on the numbers and the info on the certificate if this stone will perform well? Any concerns? I don't feel I have enough experience at this moment to just base a decision on the numbers alone.


thanks for all your help !!

 

[04diamond<3]

Well....I really don't suggest ever buying from them because they don't provide pictures (which is absolutely the minimum I'd expect to see before making such a HUGE purchase online!) and ideal scope images (which is something I'd have to see as well). The ideal scope image shows how the stone performs and I know that BN does not offer them. Not to mention they don't do videos....So a HUGE absolute NO for this.

I'm also concerned about the small crown angle...you want to keep it around 34, so at 32.5 it's a bit thin and unless you're putting it in a bezel, this would make me worried. Here's something I'd suggest:

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.05-carat-j-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-178802
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.05-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-178857

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.11-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-106521 (this one scored a 2.6 on the HCA, BUT it's still one I'd recommend because the cut is gorgeous. I'd ask JA for an ideal scope image on this one. The other two already have them).

JA also offers a discount to PS members so I'd ask them about that too.

Edit for spelling.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree. I would not spend $20k with a vendor that won't provide a picture and idealscope image. And I also like to see the crown angle around 34-35, pav angle 40.6-41.0, table 54-58, depth 60-62.3.

 

[sakari_8]

Hi

I would agree with DS may be you could ask BN if they could provide you Idealscope Image if possible,
BN does not have technology to provide the Images however the source they get the stone from may have
the Images available.

 

[Lal1]

Hi everyone

thanks for your responses so far. Your responses have been confirming my "gut" that I am not feeling good about recommending this purchase to my friend without seeing more images. I am finding it *very* difficult to get solid information from Blue Nile - which is actually getting a bit frustrating right now.

The latest I was told was that because it's a GIA diamond with excellent ratings, that it will have "perfect corner to corner brilliance like other diamonds of this same quality". I was sent a picture of the stone (not a loupe image)- I'll try to attach it in a moment (would there be any point to seeing it?).

In the meantime, the reason my friend wants to purchase from Blue Nile is that I think they ship to Canada. I have purchased many times from James Allen before and have been happy with them - and now that I revisited their website, it looks like they do offer free shipping to Canada now - so I will look into their stones more closely.

 

[04diamond<3]

Hi everyone

thanks for your responses so far. Your responses have been confirming my "gut" that I am not feeling good about recommending this purchase to my friend without seeing more images. I am finding it *very* difficult to get solid information from Blue Nile - which is actually getting a bit frustrating right now.

The latest I was told was that because it's a GIA diamond with excellent ratings, that it will have "perfect corner to corner brilliance like other diamonds of this same quality". I was sent a picture of the stone (not a loupe image)- I'll try to attach it in a moment (would there be any point to seeing it?).

In the meantime, the reason my friend wants to purchase from Blue Nile is that I think they ship to Canada. I have purchased many times from James Allen before and have been happy with them - and now that I revisited their website, it looks like they do offer free shipping to Canada now - so I will look into their stones more closely.

That IS SUCH BS!!!! I will never ever buy from them. That's not true at all and is EXACTLY why you need an idealscope image to be 100% sure.

Other of our vendors like the one I posted earlier also ship to Canada, so I'd really consider them over the crud you're dealing with.

I should have also included that there are "excellent" graded GIA stones that have horrible performance and "very good" GIA graded stones for the symmetry that out perform the "excellent" ones so again, stressing the need for an ideal scope image.

 

[Lal1]

Hopefully the picture comes through - this is the picture sent in by bluenile.

IN the meantime, I wandered over to James Allen.
Here's one I'm looking at now:
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.25-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-195240
Idealscope images/more info to come.
Any initial thoughts?
It's a bit more expensive but I think I am personally a bit color sensitive and would prefer not to go too much lower especially when the stone gets bigger

Also, I learned that they do ship to Canada but GST is charged. I'm not sure if any additional duty is also charged- does anyone have any experience with this?

 

[04diamond<3]

It doesn't look like a bright stone and there seems to be some leakage on the sides. You say you're color sensitive, but correct me if I'm wrong, this isn't for you is it? Just thinking that everyone has different preferences. Also, the one you posted is an H...

I posted this one earlier from JA that's a G and I prefer this cut over the 2.25 that you posted:

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.11-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-106521

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.01-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-130290 (this one's a bit more expensive, but it faces up pretty large and looks white for an h).

If you like them, put them on hold and request ideal scope images.

 

[Lal1]

Ok, thanks for your input on this. Yes, I also have the G-SI2 on hold now so that I can have some comparisons done. I'll post soon.

Yes, the stones are for a friend - I guess I'm speaking from some personal experience. I purchased some J's for earrings a few years ago - and I could pick out the color in the J's but I was fine with it because they are earrings. I guess I just want to make sure it's a safe choice for my friend - especially now that the stone that is being considered is much larger.

 

[ariel144]

You cannot tell from the picture if it is a good performing stone. You need certain testing equipment to prove that it does not have a lot of leakage and therefore not perform the best.

Your friend wants a well performing stone and BN does not offer this type of testing to prove to their potential customers that they perform well. Your friend might as well roll the dice to pick a diamond from BN. Why does he want to buy from them do you know?

The best cut Modern Round Brilliants MRB...are the true hearts and arrows. CUT IS KING...color and clarity do not make a diamond beautiful. Have your friend watch some of the educational videos on GOG to understand that you can purchase a lower color great performing stone and it will be a more beautiful diamond than a poorly cut higher color stone.

The advantage to the facet pattern of modern round brilliant cuts is that they hide inclusions well. If he does not want to research how to pick a well cut diamond then I strongly suggest he go with some of the vendors that will do ASETs and Idealscopes which show leakage.

Here are some H & A's from diff. vendors:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10208/
(click on reserve diamond for the price)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9714/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10207/

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2781697.htm

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut//CaratFrom:1.69|CaratTo:10.00|Cut:TrueHearts|PriceFrom:400|PriceTo:999000|Sortrice%20asc%20,DefaultOrder|TabSelected:3|ps:15||DiamondID:126880,73565,178815,178802
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.31-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-178815

He also might want to consider an Old European cut diamond...their faceting is lovely, although they are usually deeper cut and so face up smaller:

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/2.03-carat-i-vs1-european-brilliant-round-cut-diamond-gid-100024.html

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9866/

Hope this helps.

 

[JulieN]

Blue Nile specializes in bad pictures.

 

[04diamond<3]

Ok, thanks for your input on this. Yes, I also have the G-SI2 on hold now so that I can have some comparisons done. I'll post soon.

Yes, the stones are for a friend - I guess I'm speaking from some personal experience. I purchased some J's for earrings a few years ago - and I could pick out the color in the J's but I was fine with it because they are earrings. I guess I just want to make sure it's a safe choice for my friend - especially now that the stone that is being considered is much larger.

Sounds good! Can't wait to see what the idealscope on that looks like!

Blue Nile specializes in bad pictures.

Agreed. It looks horrible. I am shocked that they even took a picture, but it doesn't help if the picture is crappy....

 

[Lal1]

I spoke with my friend again. We're going to look at other websites. I think we just need to make sure that shipping to Canada is easy - and check on the potential mounds of taxes that might be added to the purchase (may be an unpleasant surprise). I had heard with blue nile - that because they have a Canadian website, the price is really what you see on the website (+ possibly GST/PST). Purchasing from other websites may incur additional luxury taxes.

Thank you everyone for your help so far!

 

[CharmyPoo]

I am Canadian and it is just HST that you pay. Is your friend in Ontario?

Most of the PS recommended vendors are all highly experienced in shipping to Canada. They have plenty of Canadian customers and know how to handle the paper work. There is no "Canadian" benefit buying from Blue Nile versus say a JA, GOG, ERD, WF, BGD.

If you want to save money, ship to Alberta where the taxes are low if you have friends there.

 

[kmarla]

I just bought two rings and was charged 13 percent hst. I was also charged duty on the band as the paperwork said it was non-nafta. The engagement ring was nafta so no duty. Just ask those questions up front but rings manufactured in the states are duty free.

 

[kmarla]

I meant to add to my above post that this was my first time buying jewelry online from the U.S. (Blue Nile) and I didn’t think we had to pay duty either, just HST, but found out differently. The duty on my eternity ring was 5%, annoying but not a deal breaker since the savings were still great compared to buying locally. These duty charges were clear in the invoice before I made payment so you should never be surprised after the fact. Hope this helps!

 

[Lal1]

Thank you Canadians for sharing your purchasing experience re taxes. My friend is lucky - he lives in Alberta, so hopefully it's just GST that he gets charged.

OK, so I've got the idealscopes in for the following 3 stones:
1. 2.11 ct G-SI2
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.11-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-106521
excellent cut/polish/symmetry
medium blue fluorescence
table 56%
depth 62.4%
crown angle 35.5
pavilion angle 40.8

gemologist states it is not eye clean
but it is the whitest of the 3 stones.

when I look at the idealscope - it seems that there's some light leakage as well?

2. 2.25 ct H SI1
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.25-carat-H-color-SI1-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-195240
excellent cut/symmetry; vg polish
table 57%
depth 61.9%
crown angle 35
pavilion angle 40.8

In looking at the idealscope, it doesn't seem as attractive as the I SI2

3. 2 ct I SI2
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.00-carat-i-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-44405
excellent cut/symmetry; vg polish
table 57%
depth 61.9%
crown 34.5
pavilion 40.8

The gemologist said this one was eye clean! And faces up white.
Any concerns re the twinning wisps and stone stability?
I thought the idealscope looked nice - but the "performance" of the stone on my monitor didn't seem to be as beautiful. Any concerns?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

 

[04diamond<3]

I still like the G SI2 the best. I think if the ideal scope was done better (this does happen), it would look the best. I like the fatter arrows and the smaller table. The other one I like a bit is the I SI2 but I don't like the bigger table and the thinner arrows.

 

[JulieN]

If the H is eyeclean, definitely. Bigger, whiter, and better clarity than the I.

 

[Lal1]

If the H is eyeclean, definitely. Bigger, whiter, and better clarity than the I.

There's about a 7K difference between the H SI1 and the I SI2 - do you think it's worth the 7K difference?

 

[Lal1]

I still like the G SI2 the best. I think if the ideal scope was done better (this does happen), it would look the best. I like the fatter arrows and the smaller table. The other one I like a bit is the I SI2 but I don't like the bigger table and the thinner arrows.

OK that probably explains the idealscope better. I like the arrows on the G SI2 as well - they appear more symmetrical.
What's the effect of bigger/smaller arrows and table size on performance? Is it a big difference visually?

 

[Lal1]

now that I'm looking at the images again, does the I SI2 look a bit off center?

 

[04diamond<3]

I still like the G SI2 the best. I think if the ideal scope was done better (this does happen), it would look the best. I like the fatter arrows and the smaller table. The other one I like a bit is the I SI2 but I don't like the bigger table and the thinner arrows.

OK that probably explains the idealscope better. I like the arrows on the G SI2 as well - they appear more symmetrical.
What's the effect of bigger/smaller arrows and table size on performance? Is it a big difference visually?

It's really a personal thing. I personally really just love the bigger arrows and smaller tables. The clarity on the G SI2 is not something I'd worry about. The inclusion on the left can be covered by a prong (you can confirm this with the gemologist), and you have to remember, while yes, there's a black dot, the image is magnified. I'd suggest seeing the stone in person. JA has a good return policy if you don't like it, but I'm pretty sure you would. As the gemologist said, it is the whitest stone.

 

[JulieN]

The G inclusion is on the table, you can't cover it up.

 

[04diamond<3]

The G inclusion is on the table, you can't cover it up.

I was talking about the inclusion close to the edge on the left. I told them to inquire about the inclusion in the center. It's not a big inclusion and the pictures are blown up....only the gemologist can tell him for sure.

 

[Lal1]

The G inclusion is on the table, you can't cover it up.

I was talking about the inclusion close to the edge on the left. I told them to inquire about the inclusion in the center. It's not a big inclusion and the pictures are blown up....only the gemologist can tell him for sure.

The response I got was that the G SI2 does not face up eye clean - the feather is visible

 

[04diamond<3]

Ok, but it also looks like it can be covered by a prong or mostly covered...white inclusions are easier to blend in if they're not fully covered. That's good that that's the only problem. If I remember correctly this stone was very affordable so it could be a great deal. I'd ask specifically about it being covered by a prong.

 

[Lal1]

Ok, but it also looks like it can be covered by a prong or mostly covered...white inclusions are easier to blend in if they're not fully covered. That's good that that's the only problem. If I remember correctly this stone was very affordable so it could be a great deal. I'd ask specifically about it being covered by a prong.

Ok, good point. I remember when I first selected the stone, I was told that it was quite possible that the stone was not going to be eye clean due to the inclusion close to the table - which is why I selected a 3rd stone just in case.

But I will check again re which inclusion is the concern. If the visible inclusion is one that can be covered up with a prong, then this could be the winner.

 

[04diamond<3]

Ok, but it also looks like it can be covered by a prong or mostly covered...white inclusions are easier to blend in if they're not fully covered. That's good that that's the only problem. If I remember correctly this stone was very affordable so it could be a great deal. I'd ask specifically about it being covered by a prong.

Ok, good point. I remember when I first selected the stone, I was told that it was quite possible that the stone was not going to be eye clean due to the inclusion close to the table - which is why I selected a 3rd stone just in case.

But I will check again re which inclusion is the concern. If the visible inclusion is one that can be covered up with a prong, then this could be the winner.

Keep us updated! But remember, even if it can't fully be covered, it's possible that it can be well hidden! You also need to keep in mind that the images are blown up so the feather is not that big IRL. Good luck!! Hope it works out!

 

[Lal1]

Hi

I got a bit more information back. Still waiting on info re the inclusion on the G SI2

G SI2 is the whitest of the 3 stones but not the brightest - apparently the H SI1 and G SI2 were better in terms of light performance.

Between the H SI1 and G SI2 - the color difference is not visible by the naked eye.

Overall, H SI1 had slightly more fire/sparkle over the I SI2


Does this change any of your thoughts?