Please Help-Am I Over-reacting?

[midorigal8]

Hi all-

I am a long time lurker and first time poster. I want to thank this board for being so informative, I''ve learned a lot since discovering this board about 6 months ago and still have a lot to go!

My boyfriend proposed to be in Paris this past May, it was really romantic but he didn''t have a ring because he knew I''ve been trying to learn about diamonds and he hasn''t, he also thinks that the Jewelry Mart in Los Angeles will offer him good deals at wholesale prices. I''ve since read good postings about certain vendors in the downtown area and will eventually check them out but in general would like to avoid downtown. Anyways, I like having input.

Upon learning about our engagement, his mom offered us her wedding ring to re-design. We thought that was really sweet and wanted to build a 3 stone ring with it. Since she had no idea about the quality of the diamond or paperwork we thought we should get it appraised or certified. I wanted to get the stone certified by AGS since I figured we will get the completed ring appraised once it''s in a new setting. Before being offered this diamond, I was only looking at AGS000 diamonds on Blue Nile and WhiteFlash. So I went on the AGS site and located members/appraisers in my area (Los Angeles). I e-mailed 3 companies and only David, the President of Sarah Leonard got back to me. He was very prompt and pleasant and quoted me a price on sending my stone to get appraised and also offered the fact that his store did appraisals as well. I researched this family owned jewelry store on the Internet and on Pricescope and was happy to hear about their reputation. My plan was after knowing the cut/color/clarity of the diamond then I can buy two other diamonds and a nice setting. I was open to looking around Sarah Leonard even though I knew I may pay a premium. I figured I''d base it on the ring certification experience.

Well, I went to the store yesterday and Robin helped us and I was very disappointed in the service and now I am second-guessing myself in leaving the stone there. She first wanted to know if we had any papers for the ring, if we did, why would we need it certified? Then she tried to push the appraisal on us saying the lab won''t give us the value of the diamond, which I knew. She kept on saying how it''s a sentimental piece and heirloom and we wouldn''t sale it anyways. She said in her 13 years of experience, only 1 customer had requested to get the stone certified, basically she acted like I was out of my mind but did day she''ll do "whatever I want" Now, I was doubting myself but reminded myself that that''s the reason I went there. If I wanted GIA cert., I could have done it myself, if I wanted the diamond appraised, I would go to one who wasn''t selling stones. So that was the end of that.

She offered to show us settings because they were having their once a year sale and I was open to it. Robin was obnoxious throughout the process, she couldn''t tell us the prices of loose diamonds with a setting that would be proportional to our stone because she didn''t know our stones carat size. She had the gemologist on-site take a look in the beginning to let us know if it''s worth it to set the stone in a new setting. And the jeweler wouldn''t be in until Monday so she didn''t have the loose stone prices (what?!?!) She was also very condescending when I asked for the difference between 2 settings and said "Anyone can see the difference, they are both so different!!!" The two settings were round brilliant center stone with side stones, maybe one was channel and another pave, it wasn''t like I was looking at pave sides vs. trillion sides.

Anyways, she was very cagey when it came to price and assistance, she just kept on saying that it''s what the woman wants and that it''s special because it will be forever and how side stones will really enhance the stone, basically gearing us towards the more fancy settings. I admit some setting were nice but I didn''t expect the experience to be Robbins Bros. like (which I decided not to go after reading this board), pushy and used car-salesman like. I got the feeling that she was trying to make my boyfriend feel bad if he didn''t plunk down some $$$ but yet she won''t give him a range of what things will cost. I feel that she wanted me to fall in love with a setting and then insist on him getting it for me. Sure, I like bling but we are older and I am more practical, we would like to buy a place and continue on to travel and would not want to throw all our money into a ring.

I was getting uncomfortable and we should have just left. Instead, we left the ring with them and now I am all paranoid. His mom had thought the stone was about .8 and Robin had said it was probably .5 (without measuring or weighing it), I think it''s definitely bigger than .5 and am now worried the stone will be switched since we have no idea what we went in with. After reading this board, I know stone switching is very rare but am still nervous. I was really looking forward to a Family Business jewelry experience, they have been in the same location for 60 years and I enjoyed the responses I got from the President/owner, I just am very nervous and upset at this saleswoman who did not seem to know what she was talking about (AGS will remove the stone, when I know AGS only grades loose stones...sigh!

Am I being really paranoid or should I get my stone back tomorrow morning and just forget the whole certification bit and get it independently appraised?

Sorry for the long/first post, I really hope I get some feedback please!

BTW- after Sarah Leonard, we went to Servis and Taylor (another recommendation from this board) and the service was superb but I''ll leave that for another post.

Thanks!

 

[K9]

Midorigal,

I too am new here, but felt compelled to respond. I think that on one hand, this Robin girl had a point that getting the diamond certified that belong to your fiances mother may not be necessary. It is an heirloom diamond and in my opinion, having just an independent appraisal should suffice. Certification may be overkill since you would likely never sell it.

On the other hand, what you''re describing with the sales tactics would have been enough for me to run screaming from the store. If a store refuses to give you prices for any reason, that doesn''t sound on the up-and-up to me.

I would not worry about having your diamond switched, but if you''re rethinking the cert, definitely call them first thing tomorrow and go get your ring.

Hope this helps!

 

[neatfreak]

Well, I can''t really address the service, but if you''re uncomfortable, don''t buy from them!

As for getting it certified, there''s no reason unless you want to sell it in the future. I would save your $, get it appraised, and just enjoy it.

 

[UCLABelle]

Are you talking about Sarah Leonard in Westwood Village?

If so, I have been there a few times. Overall, the service was good, but a few times I got a very "stuck-up" SA, who was VERY pushy...I ended up never buying from there...

 

[surfgirl]

If I were you, I''d call the owner immediately and tell them what happened and go get your stone tomorrow morning. I also agree with those that have said it seems overkill to get your stone certified if you''re never going to sell it. And since it''s a family heirloom, I''m thinking you''ll never sell it no matter if you use it for your ering or not. If that''s the case, you can get a local appraiser (one who, as you rightly point out, does NOT also sell stones) to give you an appraisal for it. There are also appraisers known to PSers, like Richard Sherwood, who I believe give very comprehensive appraisals with all sorts of nifty tools like the Ideal Scope, etc. That might be a good ''in between'', a comprehensive appraisal but not quite a certification? Just an option.

But it sounds like you''re not sold on this stone in the first place...If that''s so, I wouldn''t feel obligated to use it in your ring...

 

[phoenixgirl]

Hello,

Well, we have some things in common . . . I also got engaged in Paris (in April of 04) and used an heirloom diamond for my e-ring.

We had my diamond appraised twice . . . once in its original platinum setting and once in my yellow gold vatche x-prong. We should have gotten it appraised unset but didn't think of that (well, DH was trying to sneakily get the stone set so even though I knew what he was doing we didn't talk about it). The appraisals were so different . . 1.10 J/K SI1 the first time, 1.14 G/H VS2 the second time. My earrings and pendant are K and it is much whiter than they are, so I am sure it's more like the second appraisal, but I'd still like to know for sure. So I don't blame you for wanting your stone certified by AGS. Sure, it might not be "worth" the money in terms of an investment, but in terms of you knowing exactly what your stone is, I think it is. What the people who are telling you not to send it need to remember is that you are saving thousands of dollars by not buying a new stone and therefore can afford a few hundred for peace of mind and personal satisfaction.

 

[risingsun]

I would retrieve my ring and take it to an independent appraiser. The appraiser can answer your questions about the diamond and assess the value. I would also find a jeweler willing to work with you on your ring project. This SA sounds pretty useless

 

[Harleigh]

Hi Midori,

I agree with the other posts. I believe you should speak to a manager and ask for your ring back immediately. If you feel you could work with someone else there better, then go for it, but if you sense any discomfort...RUN!!!

I also just experienced similar things in the Northern CA area where SA's did not want to tell me the price of something unless I was serious about buying it. I was simply looking at settings and writing down the SKU #'s and prices, of course, of what I found at each store to then take back and discuss with my FF. I finally chose to have my stone appraised, not certified, at a local family jeweler who provides a service from an Independent Graduate Gemologist one day a week. There was no pressure from any SA's while we were there and the appraiser was professional and courteous. Also, I was with her the entire time she had the stone for weights, pictures, scopes, etc... It never left my sight, which was worth the wait and time it took.

After the appraisal was completed, my mom and I were so impressed by the friendly staff at the store that we decided to look around, even though I was absolutely certain they were going to be more expensive than anywhere else in town. We were personally assisted by one of the owners (which may have been due to the size of the stone we had in hand, I'm not sure) who did not try to talk me into anything bigger or better or to try to talk me out of the simple setting I knew I wanted, which all of the other jewelers scoffed at, which, as I'm sure you can imagine, really ticked me off. I have always had my heart set on a setting much like my grandmother had in a ring that was supposed to come to me, so I knew I did not want something trendy or dated, nor did I want something every other gal has.

Surprisingly, they were very reasonable, the quality of the gold and diamonds was absolutely to die for, and because I finally chose 3 bands altogether, the owner gave us a heck of a deal, and I don't feel like my FF got taken. The SA even made great suggestions as to which of the channel set bands would look best, which the ones he pointed out to me were actaully smaller & less carat diamond bands and a smaller wide gold band to make my center diamond stand out more. I think many other jewelers would have tried to get me to pick the most expensive band and the other two bands with the biggest diamonds and carat weight, etc... Also, they were only charging $190 to set my stone on the band, which many others quoted $400 and up and many did not want to set a stone I had not purchased from them.

Also, no jeweler should have taken your stone without weighing it first, checking it with a loupe for chips, cracks, etc... and giving you a claim slip with weight info & instructions as to what they are to do with it while it is in their posession to help prove that it is the same stone you are getting back, that they did not chip it, damage it, etc... Hopefully you have at least an idea about what the stone looks like, if it has any unique markings under magnification, etc... Please be sure to inspect your ring with a loupe before you take it back from them.

Just my two cents, but if you still don't feel comfortable, you need to go elsewhere until you either fall in love with a setting and they're willing to at least weigh your stone for you or you just can't beat the quality and price. otherwise you will be miserable. Keep us posted and best of luck!

Harleigh

 

[fleur-de-lis]

Hi Midorigal,

I''ve been a lurker here myself for a while, registered a couple of months ago, and figured my first post would be an introductory one when I was at my home computer and could upload the requisite photographs that the pricescope community seems to crave

, but I came across your post today and realized that I might be somewhat unique enough among the registered members to justify leaving my "lurker" status.

I personally have been a non-exclusive customer of Sarah Leonard for both jewelry appraisals and jewelry purchase for about 5 years.

Though I had remembered looking in their store window while walking in Westwood as a teen, I first went to them as a customer after an extensive search to find an appraiser in Los Angeles for a number of estate pieces. It was a bit daunting to leave something like 15-17 carats of diamonds there, but they all came back safe and sound. (No switch-outs-- that had been a concern of mine too. The appraisals came back consistent with the descriptions on the original purchase slips I had found from the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s, and of the diamonds that had tiny inclusions which I could see with my grandfather''s old 10x loupe, the stones came back with the same inclusions, lol.) I have since used them again for appraisals, and would recommend them without hesitation for that purpose. Based on my experiences, your stone is safe.

When it comes to the folks on the sales floor, I''ve had both great and sub-par experiences. I hate to say it, but it seems clear to me that some of the folks there are much better than others; I guess that''s not uncommon for a business of 20 or so people that when hires to supplement the original family members, some of the hires don''t share the passion. It''s so disappointing when that happens, don''t you think? In my experiences, the best person on the sales floor is Linda; she''s the daughter of the founders. I''d recommend dealing with her if you''re putting together an e-ring. For appraisals, the man to speak to is David (Linda''s brother)-- he''s great, responsible, and knowledgeable. I''ve also liked Dean, who I believe is Linda''s son. I don''t think I''ve ever worked with Robin (name doesn''t ring a bell), but it sounds like she''s awful based on what you wrote.

Midorigal, if the horrid experience with Robin didn''t turn you off from Sarah Leonard altogether, I''d advise calling ahead to set up an appointment with Linda.

Anyhow, I was just surprised to log on this morning and see a post about a jeweler with whom I''ve had firsthand experiences and could actually answer knowledgeably. After reading the tension in your post, I just wanted to reassure you that based on my experiences, your piece is safe. If you have any other questions for someone else who''s used them, feel free to ask!

(P.S. Food for thought, but it might make sense to hold off on sending your FMIL''s stone out for AGS certification. Assuming the stone was originally cut around 30 years ago, when the cut standards were so very different, the odds are very strong that it wouldn''t come back AGS-0-0-0 by today''s metrics. IMO, you might want to just get a normal appraisal first and decide from there before going through the hassle and expense of sending out a stone which might not get the report from AGS you seek.)

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

I think you should def go and pick it up and speak with someone else at least. I would also think that it is a tall order to expect your diamond to come back AGS000 after all of these years of wear and tear and having not been cut with AGS000 proportions necessarily in mind.

But the real reason I am responding was to ask, what does midori mean?

 

[kcoursolle]

I live in LA and am familiar with Sarah leonard. I wouldn't have qualms about leaving my stone there, but I would switch sales persons. I got a good feeling from David from my meetings with him and I'd call him up and talk to him about your feelings and only work with him if you are going to continue to work with them. If you want to get your stone certified, you should...no matter what a salesperson says. Have you tried shanes jewelery just down the street on broxton? Every time I've been in there I've had a good experience. I worked with one particular woman (Wendy, wanda, something like that...) and she was fantastic and very knowledgeable. I also thought their prices were better than SL's.

However, there are other people that are good to work with and you may want to consider them as well. My appraiser in Los angeles is patrick davis and I'm pretty happy with him. You can find him by going to the resources tab, then appraisers, then area, etc. He can easily tell you the carat weight and can get close with color and clarity as well. The PS appraisers mentioned have an excellent reputation as well if you are willing to work long distance.

Have you considered working with online vendors? I've actually had some of best service experiences with online vendors. I've had settings made from Brian knox at knowjewelers.biz and I consider him my "main jeweler" even though I'm located in Los Angeles. I've also had great experiences with WF and JA.

 

[midorigal8]

Hi everyone,

Thank you all so much for your kind words, suggestions and advice. I did want to clarify that I do not expect the report to come back AGS Ideal although it would be a pleasant surprise but as others have pointed out, in the past it was mostly cut for weight and standards have changed. Before the stone was offered and I only looked on-line I figured the safest bet was to go with the cut then color, then clarity but after viewing his mother''s stone and liked it and was comfortable with the sparkle and color I thought the best way was to certify it for my peace of mind in knowing exactly what a lab would grade it. My sister, who just got married last Sunday, also had a heirloom diamond from her husband''s great-aunt and her MIL went and got it graded and lasered by GIA in Carlsbad (they live in San Diego), I figured since I needed the stone removed that I''d go to an AGS jeweler.

I know we did not click with the SA from the very beginning but cannot figure out why, did I seem too naive, knowledgeable, etc.? But I understand that sometimes people just don''t mesh well. I was just surprised because in my e-mails with David, he never did imply my request to get the diamond certified as odd or silly. After leaving the place, my fiance asked me if David thought I was crazy to want a family stone certified just based on Robin''s reaction. David has only been professional, prompt and kind in our exchanges. I am sure this would have turned out differently if I went on a weekday when he was there as opposed to Saturday, my day off. I will continue to ponder and think things over but will definitely give David a call tomorrow morning.

Midori means green in Japanese. I love the color green, the drink Midori Sour and since I''m so new at this I''m feeling a bit green!

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

AHA! i knew it already, I just didn't want to sound stupid if it was a different language. There are so many asian connections on this site, I didn't realize it until I browsed that share your picture with your ring thread. Anyway, my ff is japanese, thats why I was curious, headed over in 2 weeks, getting impatient now! It's nice to meet you, and if they do swap out your stones let us know and we will all come riot with you!

 

[Diamond*Dana]

I agree that I would just save my money on the cert and have it appraised. As for Robin, if you are not happy with the way she treated you, pick up your stone and move on. You could report her behavior, but then it may be a bit uncomfy to go back in there and work with another SA. Good luck in your decision.

 

[midorigal8]

Update-

I just called and spoke with David. Again, he was very pleasant, professional and patient with my questions. I can see why his family has been in the business for 60 years. Saturday was his day off and I am sure my experience would have been very different if he was there. Much thanks to all those who responded. And thank you to those of you who have worked with them in the past and offered your point of view and advice. If I get my setting there I will be sure to only work with David or Linda.

Now I just have to decide on a setting!