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Please Critique This Diamond

Sampsonjw12

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
11
Hello everyone...I am purchasing this diamond sight unseen from an on line retailer. It is a 1.20 round SI1 G. The jeweler says it has great light return. I like the fact that the inclusions are off to the side. It has a GIA Cert. It has a triple Ex rating as well. Thanks in advance.

Joe

diamond angles.PNG

diamond cert inc.PNG
 

Sampsonjw12

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
11
I'll have to ask him...I did ask if it had the hearts and arrows...he said it did, but also that it is more of a sales gimmick and doesn't necessarily mean that it isnt a good diamond. I paid $9600 forth stone, and based on his commentsit is anvery nice SI1. My only concern was the table size, as some say 60% is too big
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
60% table is on the large size but not too large and some prefer it, so down to a personal preference thing.
 

nfowife

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
544
What vendor is this? Do they have a setting you really like? It seems you can find a similar size/spec stone for a similar or slightly lower price at a PS vendor, unless you have fallen in love with a specific setting, and get other info that can help you see the stone's performance.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8326/

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1380118.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2638943.htm
 

Sampsonjw12

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
11
I got it from overnightdiamonds.com I did pick a setting from them that i like very much. I asked him about the table size and this was his response...

"There is actually quite a bit of bad information out there about depth and
table. Most of it is based on very little actual research. All of was
obsoleted by the cut study that GIA did, and in fact, their cut grades are
the standard in the industry. In short, they say depth and table by
themselves are only a small part of the equation. It is how they interact
with about 10 other things. For example, a diamond could have a depth of
let's say 62, and a table of 57, and be virtually perfect, or be a dog,
based on these other issues. I have seen diamonds with an EX cut grade
where the table goes up into the 62 to 63 range.

Really too complicated to explain in a brief email. I would suggest
looking at this link from GIA. This is what everyone in the industry goes
by. Keep in mind, should you opt for a different stone, we have plenty to
choose from, and access to many more besides. Personally, I would stick
with what you have. To be honest, I could probably save you a bit with a
different stone, even in a smaller table, however it would not be as clean
an SI-1, which is one of the big positives of this stone."

photo.JPG
 

nfowife

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
544
Well, that particular setting is a pretty much standard setting you can get anywhere- it's a channel set setting.

I don't have experience with this vendor- never heard of them. I guess the bottom line is do you want to trust what they are telling you? Or go with a vendor who gives you specific information regarding the performance of your diamond so you know what you are getting? That's a decision for you to make. Best of luck!

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/channelset-rings/
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/cathedral-channel-set-diamond-engagement-ring-1223.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/rounded-open-cathedral-diamond-engagement-ring-626.htm
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Stone-cold11|1308318746|2948303 said:
60% table is on the large size but not too large and some prefer it, so down to a personal preference thing.
Yes, this is a 60/60 type stone, has "different" optics than a more traditional tolk proportions but many peope like it. It will likely favor brilliance slightly over fire, but that is subtle.

Does the company have a good return policy in writing?
 

Sampsonjw12

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
11
Yes they have an ex Excellent return policy....is it necessarily a given that a 60/60 cut won't have the fire that a smaller table will have? Shouldn't the table be a part of the symmetry rating of the diamond? If Gia gives it an excellent rating whereas say another marks a table % as very good at 60%.
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Sampsonjw12 said:
Yes they have an ex Excellent return policy....is it necessarily a given that a 60/60 cut won't have the fire that a smaller table will have? Shouldn't the table be a part of the symmetry rating of the diamond? If Gia gives it an excellent rating whereas say another marks a table % as very good at 60%.
No idea what you are trying to ask here.
 

Sampsonjw12

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
11
Dreamer_D|1308323015|2948374 said:
Stone-cold11|1308318746|2948303 said:
60% table is on the large size but not too large and some prefer it, so down to a personal preference thing.
Yes, this is a 60/60 type stone, has "different" optics than a more traditional tolk proportions but many peope like it. It will likely favor brilliance slightly over fire, but that is subtle.

Does the company have a good return policy in writing?
I was referring to the brilliance over fire comment vs table percent
 

Sampsonjw12

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
11
Basically I just want maximum fire and brilliance.... Symmetry, polish, and cut are all listed as excellent, but in reading several opinions on table size 60% doesn't figure into that scale of "ideal" I can buy any diamond I want from this vendor, but I just want to get the right one the first time
 

nfowife

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
544
why are you set on this vendor? Do you have some sort of credit with them that means you must buy with them?
 

chamois

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
434
Have you asked if they have an upgrade policy and the details in case you should desire a larger, different spec stone in the future ?
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Sampsonjw12 said:
Basically I just want maximum fire and brilliance.... Symmetry, polish, and cut are all listed as excellent, but in reading several opinions on table size 60% doesn't figure into that scale of "ideal" I can buy any diamond I want from this vendor, but I just want to get the right one the first time
Then don't bring in terms that confuses the discussion. Symm has little to do do with if a 60% table is Ex cut in performance or not.

There is no max fire and brilliance. Always a balance between the 2, tolkowksy proportion, around 57% 34.5 CA, 40.8 PA is about the best balance, shift it to larger table, lower CA, higher PA, more brilliance, shift the other side, more fire. If there was one with max fire and brilliance, then there will be only one best cut proportion, a single point, a 'super' cut grade, instead of a range which stones can get the best grade a lab can give.
 

Sampsonjw12

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
11
I'm not "stuck" on this vender, but I also have no reason not to buy from him. He seems knowledgeable, and has taken the time to answer all of my questions his prices are on par with most of the other online venders as well.
As far as upgrading... I don't really care, diamonds are not a good investment. The mark up is so high I will never recoup the total cost anyway. I just want to get a nice diamond that I can afford.

I really just wanted opinions based on the specs in the GIA Cert. And wether any of the numbers would adversely affect the look of the diamond
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
And to translate Stone's excellent, if terse response :tongue:

Symmetry is a relatively minor aspect of cut performance, once you are in the range of Very Good it is all a wash. same for polish.

What matters for brilliance/sparkle/scintillation is the combination of the angles and proportions of the stone. Depending on the combination you get diamonds that favour one type of optical performance or another. I call this the "flavour" of the stone. The traditional tolk type cut is balanced, not particularly favouring one type of light performance over another. Other variations of compatible proportions will favour one type of light return over another. But these variations are very very subtle. I think most consumers could not really detect them. You need to be very familiar with diamonds and all the different nuances to really notice them.

The stone you are considering is a type of ideal cut that will slightly favor brightness over fire. Not a bad thing, just a flavour. You can look for a more traditional tolk cut if it matters to you. But in reality, unless you are a cut nut or a collecter, I suspect you would be perfectly happy with a 60/60 type stone like the one under consideration.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Sampsonjw12|1308337426|2948553 said:
I'm not "stuck" on this vender, but I also have no reason not to buy from him. He seems knowledgeable, and has taken the time to answer all of my questions his prices are on par with most of the other online venders as well.
As far as upgrading... I don't really care, diamonds are not a good investment. The mark up is so high I will never recoup the total cost anyway. I just want to get a nice diamond that I can afford.

I really just wanted opinions based on the specs in the GIA Cert. And wether any of the numbers would adversely affect the look of the diamond
Now now, don't get defensive ;)) We are consumers trying to help other consumers out of the goodness of our hearts.

I am nervous of online diamond vendors who have never been used before on PS, we hear a lot of stories from poeple getting burned around here parts, so proceed with a modicum of caution. Not saying that it is not a good company or site, it might be, but it is an unknown commodity and for any consumer, that means caution in my book.

As to upgrading, all that measn is you might want a bigger diamond in the future. Some companies will give you the purchase price of the stone as credit towards a future diamond purchase. For some people that is a nice feature. It has nothing to do with investment at all. More important is a clear no-questions asked return policy in place with enough time to allow you to assess the stone in person before you are locked into the purchase.
 

Sampsonjw12

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
11
Defensive...who...me? :???: Sorry if I came across that way, just trying not to get off on a tangent :wink2: I just want to get the right stone the first time. I definitely want the scintillation, and brilliance the diamond does have the laser registry which is nice. Here is the link to the site. http://www.overnightdiamonds.com/
 

Amys Bling

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
11,025
60/60 stones are a nice stone with a different look. You have to decide if that is the stone you want.
 

CharmyPoo

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
7,007
Hopefully you got the help you need :)

Not sure why everyone is being so harsh - they are fair questions. Also, no need to push people away from their chosen vendor unless there are serious red flags. There are good vendors out there that are not talked about on PS.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,775
Nothing at all wrong w/ a 60 table on a nicely cut 60/60 type. It will look different and perform differently from a stone of the same carat weight with a 53 table, higher crown, and shallower pavilion, but who's to say one type is better than the other? I prefer one, you might well prefer the other!

Numbers indicate a nice bright stone - you'd need to see the hearts and arrows patterns on the loose stone through a H&A scope, or see pics taken through the scope, to verify H&A, so don't pay a H&A premium.

I don't think H&A is a gimmick, in that there are technically undeniable pros to having a stone w/ very high optical symmetry, but how much of a premium it is worth, what other bonuses a branded H&A stone comes with - upgrade policies, etc. - these topics are A) still debated and B) are largely up to personal preference. Your jeweller is right in that a diamond that exhibits nice hearts and arrows patterns can be an ugly stone if not well-proportioned, and a stone that does not show H&A patterns can be a pretty stone... they are not mutually exclusive. AGS0 cut grade charts allow up to 62 table, which tells you something.

Symmetry as indicated on the AGS/GIA report is a measure of physical facet-meet symmetry - neither AGS nor GIA consider optical symmetry (the H&A patterns) in their cut grade evaluation. Also, as SC & Dreamer say, has nothing to do w/ table - and there is no single best or max fire/brilliance proportion set that all cutters aspire to, there is a range that allows for tradeoffs depending on what consumer's preferences are - some *like* more fire in more types of light at the expense of some white light brilliance, others want white dazzling brightness and don't care if the stone ever shows coloured light outside of jeweller's spotlights...

Your stone has nice numbers by the GIA report, but GIA rounds and averages those numbers around 8 sections of diamond so without more info we can't tell you anything about what ranges went into those rounded averages, max and min, etc. A scan or photos is a good start - or better yet, have the stone shipped out to you to see in-person before having it set, and make sure that your eyes like what they see.
 

Sampsonjw12

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
11
Makes sense...thank you, that's all it wanted...I guess I'll see when the stone comes in, jeweler tells me that is a wonderful diamond, and that I can return it no questions asked if I don't like it, or I can specify and stone I would like and he would fid it for me...that's all I can ask
 

Christina...

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,028
Choosing a diamond is supposed to be a fun experience, who knew there were sooo much to it right??? :nono: It sounds like you aren't enjoying yourself! Have you had an oppurtunity to read some of the resources here? There is alot of information available that might help you narrow down which aspects of a diamond are most important to you. Some people care little about the stones performance and just want the biggest rock they can afford, others want an AGS triple ex,some want light performance, and so on. Once you have decided what aspect is most important to you it will be easier for the very knowledgable consumers and trades people here to help you. ;))

I would definitely try to get an idealscope and ASET of that stone though. It is going to give you so much more information than the numbers alone. All most everyone will tell you not to buy a diamond based on the report #'s. Sometimes the #'s look fantastic and the stone doesn't. I'm not sure who your vendor is either, but I would think that any reputable vendor would be willing to send you pics or video of the actual diamond that they are selling you. If he was able to tell you what a beauty it was, then he had it in his hands and he can take some pictures for you and include the ASET and idealscope images.

Just one more thought. many vendors sell the same stones. The stones listed in their inventory aren't really sitting in a safe out back. It would be worth taking a look at some of the other vendors out there. You may find the exact same stone listed for hundreds less. For example Jareds and James Allen carry many of the same stones, JA selling them for hundreds sometimes thousands less depending on the size and cut. Take a look! :)
 

Christina...

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,028
ahhh McGivens...I didn't recognize the 'Overnightdiamonds' I haven't actually worked with this vendor but I have browsed his GIGANTIC selection and read his articles and your right, he does sound very knowledgable and appears by all accounts reputable. I'd be interested in hearing about your experience with him, as like I said, I have viewed his inventory and I'm on the market for an eternity band as well. :naughty: Good Luck and keep me posted. I'm sure I speak for us all when I say, POST PICS!! We love to see other PSers bling! :love:
 
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