Please Advise on this Rock and decipher Ideal scope and Asset

[Coconutpalm]

Hello Pricescrope,

First I like to thank everyone who have contributed to the wealth of information on this forum. I just recently started looking for a engagement ring for my girlfriend and never thought there are so much variety to a rock. Long story short I am very much a amateur and could really use some expert advise.

From the hints that I picked up from my girlfriend
1) She wants something that is really shiny in outside daylight and office settings. (so is it better to have more fire or brilliants?)
2) She prefers a good size (1.3-1.9 carats) over color or clarity ( but at least eye clean, okay if well hidden.)

My budget is roughly $12-13 thousand for the diamond, a lower price of course is always better if I don't have to sacrifice the above two preferences. From what I read on the forum Cut is the most important thing when it comes to the shine of the diamond. I was having a very difficult time finding a well cut diamond from online vendors aside from Whiteflash and Brian Gavin ( please advise if there are better priced options). I finally found one that I like from whiteflash and from what I learned I think this has minimal light leak and should be really shiny. But since this is one of the most expensive purchases I will ever make in my life, any expert advise would be greatly appreciated.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3885306.htm
1.608
I
VS2
Depth % 61.4
Table % 56.3
Crown Angle 34.4
Star 51.0
Pavilion Angle 40.8
Crown % 15.0
Lower Girdle % 76.0

Please advise on the quality of the diamond and if you think there are better options, I'm all ears. If you know how to decipher the Ideal Scrope, Asset and Heart image please advise.

The only thing I didn't like was the circular dirt in the Actual Heart Image, will this make a big differences in light performance?

 

[rockysalamander]

The whiteflash diamond you posted is lovely. Its a super-ideal. It will sparkle like crazy and make her happy in every single type of light. The circular pattern you see in the hearts image is just a reflection (not within the diamond). Nothing to worry about.

If she may notice color in diamond, this might be another option. It raises the color to G, will still be eyeclean and you trade just a bit of size.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3903345.htm (7.23 mm)

From her description, it sounds like a halo may be her preference. Did she describe a setting?

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...1rz1323-halo-diamond-engagement-ring-3881.htm

 

[Coconutpalm]

The whiteflash diamond you posted is lovely. Its a super-ideal. It will sparkle like crazy and make her happy in every single type of light. The circular pattern you see in the hearts image is just a reflection (not within the diamond). Nothing to worry about.

If she may notice color in diamond, this might be another option. It raises the color to G, will still be eyeclean and you trade just a bit of size.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3903345.htm (7.23 mm)

From her description, it sounds like a halo may be her preference. Did she describe a setting?

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...1rz1323-halo-diamond-engagement-ring-3881.htm

Thanks for the quick reply rocksalamander. Is the circular pattern a reflection from the camera? Good to know that it is not from the diamond.

I was not sure about how low to go with color, is there a cut off where you'll see the obvious yellow tint?

As for setting, she did mention liking the micro Pave style from Tiffany or their Soleste (which look just like yours!) I'll have to narrow down which setting.

 

[rockysalamander]

That circular stuff is a reflection of an inclusion, but it's only visible due to the Iidealscope setup. Kind of a hall of mirrors effect. If you compare to the inclusion plot, they don't align.

Most people begin to see tint at I color. But, color acuity varies as much as visual acuity. Is your girl in an artistic field?

 

[rockysalamander]

Also, what is your setting budget?

 

[tyty333]

Beautiful stone! You really cant go wrong with ACAs and Whiteflash. Nice size too!

 

[lalala]

Thanks for the quick reply rocksalamander. Is the circular pattern a reflection from the camera? Good to know that it is not from the diamond.

I was not sure about how low to go with color, is there a cut off where you'll see the obvious yellow tint?

As for setting, she did mention liking the micro Pave style from Tiffany or their Soleste (which look just like yours!) I'll have to narrow down which setting.

I LOVE that first setting

 

[Coconutpalm]

That circular stuff is a reflection of an inclusion, but it's only visible due to the Iidealscope setup. Kind of a hall of mirrors effect. If you compare to the inclusion plot, they don't align.

Most people begin to see tint at I color. But, color acuity varies as much as visual acuity. Is your girl in an artistic field?

I looked at the diamond video a few times and I was able to see the slight yellow tint, more obviously on the lower girdle. To be safe I'll start looking again for a H or higher but I hate to lose on size. I'll keep this one as a backup, maybe with a halo setting the lower girdle will be covered.

For setting budget it'll be lower if I have to pay more for the diamond, but roughly $1000-$2000 (Not sure about setting pricing) My sister recommended a local jewelry store that she really likes but I didn't like their diamonds, so I was thinking to get a diamond at WF and might get the setting locally.

 

[Coconutpalm]

Beautiful stone! You really cant go wrong with ACAs and Whiteflash. Nice size too!

Thanks! Really hoping I didn't sacrifice too much color for size.

I LOVE that first setting

Isn't it? I think it is one of their new collections, very expensive too. If anyone finds a similar setting online please let me know.

 

[lalala]

Isn't it? I think it is one of their new collections, very expensive too. If anyone finds a similar setting online please let me know.

I just went to their website and it looks like I already saved that setting (who knows when). LOL..

With $1-2K for a setting, you may want to get a simple solitaire now and upgrade to something like the Tiffany one later on for an anniversary or something.

You're starting off with a great diamond at WF, your gf will be one happy gal!

 

[rockysalamander]

If you don't like the local stores diamonds, you will like the melee just as little. Find a setting at wf. If they damage the stone, they can replace it with something just as good. That ritani is nice. The legato sleek with or without pave is a favorite.

 

[Coconutpalm]

If you don't like the local stores diamonds, you will like the melee just as little. Find a setting at wf. If they damage the stone, they can replace it with something just as good. That ritani is nice. The legato sleek with or without pave is a favorite.

Do you know if WF's Trade up program include 100% money back for the setting too? I think I would strongly consider it just because of their trade in program.

I have been looking at their H diamonds and hoping not to lose too much size. Comparing these which would everyone on pricescope choose? I know they are all eye-clean but one of them has the dust dead on the center, isn't that hard to miss?

Which would you chooose or none of these?

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3636386,3634977,3885306

 

[Coconutpalm]

Found the answer to my own question on their website:
"All engagement rings from the collections of our designer partners Tacori, Verragio, Simon G, Ritani, Danhov and Vatche are eligible for trade up to any other single designer item of this group of designers that is equal to or greater in value. 50% of the original sale price for the item will be credited toward the new purchase."

 

[lalala]

All of those diamonds are stunning. I like the table sizes of the 1.614 H and the 1.608 I. Honestly, you can't go wrong with any of them!

I just looked at their settings and didn't realize how reasonable their prices are!

This one is pretty if she likes the pave solitaire:

https://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/elena-diamond-engagement-ring-1364.htm

Here is a knife edge like the Tiffany one but it does not have pave on the head:

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ife-edge-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-712.htm

This one is kind of in between a halo and pave solitaire:

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...r2478-caviar-diamond-engagement-ring-3548.htm​

One thing I will add, make sure you are considering what the wedding band will look like with the e-ring. I didn't think that process through and just went for what I liked as a single ring on my hand...

 

[rockysalamander]

1.608 I VS2 (7.53 mm) for me, followed by 1.614 H SI1 (7.53 mm).

Budget stretch, but I also like this one to get an H and not give up any size.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3565128.htm (7.6 mm)

So, if you want the tradeup on the setting, you'll have to stick with the designers ones.

Great Tiffany replica.
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...-solitaire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-1778.htm

Similar to the Tiffany halo you posted
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...r2478-caviar-diamond-engagement-ring-3548.htm

 

[Coconutpalm]

Thank you Rocky salamander for all your great suggestions.

I have actually been comparing the one you suggested

1.694 H SI1 vs the original 1.608 I VS2
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3565128,3885306

Correct me if I am reading the diamonds wrong but despite having more white spots (light leakage) and less symmetric on the ideal scope for the 1.694 H SI1 it seems like it reflects light better on the actual diamond video? Does it not? When the facet for the 8 center arrows came around at least 7 out of the 8 lit up bright blue while the 1.608 I VS2 facet came around only 2-3 lit up bright blue at a time as each new angle is shown. Does this mean 1.694 is the better light performer despite what the ideal scope shows?



1.694 H SI1_____________________________________________________________1.608 I VS2

 

[OoohShiny]

Being A Cut Above stones, both of those will be bright as can be - videos and pictures can be subject to changing light conditions, camera settings (manual and auto), slight misalignment of the stone, different lightbulb colour temperatures, etc.

Don't worry about the tiny white spots in the idealscope images, they won't exhibit any negative effects in real life, and some contrast is designed in to well-cut stones anyway.

The main differences in those are the Lower Girdle facets - the black sections of the arrows in the images. The I has 76%, the H has 77%, so the I will have 'fatter arrows', which you can see in the image. I believe these differences will mean the longer LGFs will create more splintery white light flashes, whereas the shorter LGFs will show more coloured fire flashes. It's only 1% difference, though, so it's not like you're comparing 80% to 75%, and both will be basically the same to all but the very experienced eye.

You can't really go wrong with any of the ACAs, it's just slight differences that might create a slightly different effect between stones. And as the recipient will only be wearing one stone, there won't be another one next to it to compare to, so there's no worries about 'which looks better'

 

[rockysalamander]

+1 @OoohShiny !

The other thing you can do is to ask the WF gemologist to review then and give their opinion. That has helped a lot of posters since there are some things aided by experienced human eyes. Put both on hold and then ask for a review and some advice.

 

[HappyNewLife]

And make sure the H ACA is eye-clean. since it says to "inquire" about it

 

[Coconutpalm]

Being A Cut Above stones, both of those will be bright as can be - videos and pictures can be subject to changing light conditions, camera settings (manual and auto), slight misalignment of the stone, different lightbulb colour temperatures, etc.

Don't worry about the tiny white spots in the idealscope images, they won't exhibit any negative effects in real life, and some contrast is designed in to well-cut stones anyway.

The main differences in those are the Lower Girdle facets - the black sections of the arrows in the images. The I has 76%, the H has 77%, so the I will have 'fatter arrows', which you can see in the image. I believe these differences will mean the longer LGFs will create more splintery white light flashes, whereas the shorter LGFs will show more coloured fire flashes. It's only 1% difference, though, so it's not like you're comparing 80% to 75%, and both will be basically the same to all but the very experienced eye.

You can't really go wrong with any of the ACAs, it's just slight differences that might create a slightly different effect between stones. And as the recipient will only be wearing one stone, there won't be another one next to it to compare to, so there's no worries about 'which looks better'

+1 @OoohShiny !

The other thing you can do is to ask the WF gemologist to review then and give their opinion. That has helped a lot of posters since there are some things aided by experienced human eyes. Put both on hold and then ask for a review and some advice.

And make sure the H ACA is eye-clean. since it says to "inquire" about it

Thank you so much for your inputs, I will request for a gemologist opinion.

Any other questions I should include?

 

[rockysalamander]

Eye-clean from above, eye-clean from 45 degrees (that's the angle I see my stones the most as a wearer), tint at 45 degrees, opinion on light performance.

Also, those little white triangles and pigeon toes are totally normal. The reason one is bright and the other not is more about the lighting. They are formally called "meet points" and are where you fully expect there to be leakage (you have lots of plane of the cut meeting at that point, so leakage is expected). You worry about areas that should be red that are grey or white.

 

[Coconutpalm]

1.694 H has a white crystal and dark crystal in the table and may be visible if you have a keen eye. Also more expensive.

1.6 I has no color differences facing up but has a touch more yellow when viewed from other angles. My main worry is all her friends and family have at least a G colors stone and I don't want hers to have a obviously yellow next to theirs.

hmm both have their cons keeping looking and go for a smaller size ?

 

[rockysalamander]

If all her friends have colorless, I would personally go with a G. WF offers a fantastic upgrade policy, so you can always up the size later for a holiday, birthday or anaversery.

I would ask them to compare these two.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3903345.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3858587.htm

This is another super-ideal vendor. You could call them and ask about the diamonds.
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8393

 

[Coconutpalm]

If all her friends have colorless, I would personally go with a G. WF offers a fantastic upgrade policy, so you can always up the size later for a holiday, birthday or anaversery.

I would ask them to compare these two.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3903345.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3858587.htm

This is another super-ideal vendor. You could call them and ask about the diamonds.
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8393

Thank you rocksalamander! that's another great source for super-ideal I would have never known about. Best of all it looks like they have a showroom near me here in NYC . I'll search more in depth once I get some privacy away from the gf.

 

[lalala]

My main worry is all her friends and family have at least a G colors stone and I don't want hers to have a obviously yellow next to theirs.

Does she *know* they are colorless or do they look colorless so she's guessing they are G and above? Some of them could very well be an I or H but appear colorless.. just a thought!

 

[ringo865]

Right, and if they are graded it "other labs" the could call it a G and it is really a GIA/AGS I-K.

 

[rockysalamander]

Thank you rocksalamander! that's another great source for super-ideal I would have never known about. Best of all it looks like they have a showroom near me here in NYC. I'll search more in depth once I get some privacy away from the gf.

That's great. Seeing is believing! Go visit..I actually love Crafted By Infinity. Have them show you G, H, and I stones. If that store has GIA graded, but not super-ideal, do a comparison. I find it much harder to detect color in super-ideals than others. If you are strategic in setting choice, you can really make the side-view less visible and thus mask color better. But, if your gal or you will be expected to state diamond stats...the actual color may matter.

Crafted by Infinity have quite a nice network. I think if you buy the diamond at that showroom, you will pay NY sales tax. But, High Performance Diamonds is in Idaho and I don't think there is NY sales tax on internet purchases outside the state. Just saying...

 

[Coconutpalm]

I know one of them is a G GIA 3X excellent b/c i saw the certificate, it's probably not as nicely cut as ACA. Another was GSI? never heard of it, but it was a F and not well cut

 

[Coconutpalm]

That's great. Seeing is believing! Go visit..I actually love Crafted By Infinity. Have them show you G, H, and I stones. If that store has GIA graded, but not super-ideal, do a comparison. I find it much harder to detect color in super-ideals than others. If you are strategic in setting choice, you can really make the side-view less visible and thus mask color better. But, if your gal or you will be expected to state diamond stats...the actual color may matter.

Crafted by Infinity have quite a nice network. I think if you buy the diamond at that showroom, you will pay NY sales tax. But, High Performance Diamonds is in Idaho and I don't think there is NY sales tax on internet purchases outside the state. Just saying...

I think there is a good chance she might like the halo, so maybe I can pull off a H color.

The hp diamonds are beautiful, from the ones I browsed they almost look identically cut. Four of the 1.5 carats H that are very similar. Only one G in my budget =/

I like this one but its a stretch from my budget. I noticed they are a slight bit more expensive than WF too, Any chance of negotiating with them after the wire discount?
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9008

I will call them tomorrow to schedule a showing. When it comes to sales tax can I go to the showroom and not buy it? then go home and buy it online to avoid it? Not sure how they do it.

 

[rockysalamander]

One other though. You started off looking for super-ideal and we've kept in that vein. But, if you want to raise the color, do you want to look at other ideals?

#1. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3257559 {solid IS. The table has the stair-step cutting we've seen a lot, but it stll achieve a great AGS grading. AGS is strict on cut. H color}

#2. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...f-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3430965 {F VS2, this will be eyeclean and with an GIA F, whiter than her friends. Chubby arrows. This will be eyeclean, but you'll have to decide how you feel about the inclusion as 9'oclock. I might be fine with it at this price and color gain pending an IS. You can request an IS from JamesAllen after putting the stone on hold}

#3. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3276298 {G color, lovely faceting. great number with AGS0. You can request an IS from JamesAllen after putting the stone on hold}

#2 and 3 are my top recommendations. The drawback is that JA only gives 100% of diamond price on traduup if the new diamond is 2x cost.

JA settings are 15% off until 11/6. This is a great halo a lot of posters choose.
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...-edge-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-item-49492