platinum snobs?

[fire&ice]

Date: 12/2/2004 1:25:44 PM
Author: Mara
I don''t think platinum is necessarily trendy, it was around wayyy back when as more popular for rings than gold but then the war changed all of that and they had to start getting creative with gold. Platinum has seemingly finally made it''s comeback.

Metals come and go. Victorians loved their gold. Edwardians loved their platinum & white gold. During the Arts & Crafts movement, silver was the metal of choice. Copper was big in the 50''s. Yellow gold was big in the later 70''s/80''s. And, now white metals, especially platinum for finer jewelry, has made a comeback. As certain as the sun comes up, yellow gold will fall back in favor.

Like you, Mara, I look better in white metal. Gold doesn''t become me. I''ve never really worn much yellow gold. But, I do love rose gold - though it doesn''t really good all that great on me.

At the end of the day, I think people should buy what looks best on them, what they prefer and not really care what''s in or out. I have to say that I like the feel of platinum.

My platinum setting is secure; but, does show more wear. Maybe I''m harder on my rings these days.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 12/2/2004 5

2:47 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 12/2/2004 12:51

2 PM
Author: MichelleCarmen

Date: 12/2/2004 10:55:17 AM
Author: fire&ice
Of all the settings I have, my platinum one is my least favorite & the shows the most signs of abuse. Platinum - not again!

Your eng/wedding (3 ct. ring) right? Do you wear any other non platinum rings as frequently?

Yes, I wore my yellow gold solitaire for about 10 years. I wore my family ring (white gold) for 10 years. I''ve worn my 18k gold diamond wedding band for 20 years. After 3 years, my anniv. (yeah 3c) platinum ring looks the worse for the wear. And, I probably need to tend to it as somehow is got pitted.

This is just my experience. I don''t know why. I''m unsure I would buy another platinum setting. But, I do like diamonds set in white metal.

Thanks for responding. I have to say I''m totally confused about metal colors/types, etc, for future purchases. My current set is yellow gold and looks really good against my skin color, but yet I find myself gravitating toward white metals now that I''ve seen all the goodies posted here. My last four major purchases have all been white metal pieces so this is my trend. . .but yet I''m not sure about the platinum v. white gold no matter how many sides of the story I read/hear about.

If we could all upgrade every five years or so, then all our problems would be solved as we could not only replace the beat up rings but update their look with a more current color/style. . .lol I''ll propose this to my husband just to humor him. He needs a good laugh!

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

PLATINUM v WHITE GOLD

PLATINUM

The best platinum is made by choice by the best craftman because it has a better luster, and its hardness allows the crafstman to use cleaner lines. When platinum is hardened it is very rigid and adds both security and enables more design possibilty.

The bad platinum around is a product of the platinum trend, pushing people to cut corners. It is just simply harder to work with; It takes more time to get the luster, soldering it is art in itself - where gold is far more basic, and it is hard to cast. The alloy commonly used in casting is pretty dubious, though I still rate that material better then w/gold. Cast plat is more often porus. Some high end retailers don''t use it, because their customers too often get an inferior product.

The best alloys in platinum, will outshine gold 100 fold and wont go brittle with age. You will never discover porosity. They will not only outlive you, they will be passed down through so many generations your decendents will still be wearing them in the lush green pastures of antartica.

The bad stuff won''t even look good when you buy it, and show porosity from poor casting, poor solder joins (leeched gold solder) and a scratchy polish. It often isn''t good because it is hard to work with compared to gold.

None of the hype over platinum or the strong branding marketing going on today can change the fact that it is up the manufacturer to determine how good a product you get, but that is another point.

W/GOLD

Good w/gold is not as good as plat'' and bad is worse. The average jeweller working in plat is better then the one that works in gold. The alloys used in gold are so varied some of it is a worse material then plain old silver, being taky and soft and useless to polish. The best is the stuff used pre-WW2, having a mixture of platinum and paladium. This alloy is very rare today as nobody is interested in improving an alloy that by-in-large a cheap allternative and out of vogue.

THE END OF WHITE GOLD

The reason why platinum has not replaced w/g fully is that jewellers are not keen on it. They are kicking and screaming throughout this platinum revoloution. They pay more to have it worked on by tradespeople who make less money and the majority of them hate the stuff. They can''t solder it, they can''t engrave it or set into it and the definately can''t polish it. A trade jeweller makes his money from doing 20 things in an hour. He has done the same thing in gold 1000 times, but when he is given the same thing in plat he needs to find a new technique, buy new equipment and educate him/herself about platinum issues, a proccess that involves a complete rethink about everything he knows. That is why we still have w/gold.

I know of few applications where platinum is easier to work with then gold. I know of very many applications where platinum allows a better result then gold.

 

[fire&ice]

Just for the record, my setting was not some cheap platinum ring. Most know what designer it is.

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Your definately right about old school, and that is why it is easy for you. You were taught to do things properly. Thats ok. I think it is pretty clear that platinum work involves different skills and skills that need to be learnt. Old school techniques for handmaking intricate settings won''t get you far, where you have to account for the extra heat used, inless your using low melting point solders - you''ll burn, your eyes your tools and nothing will be straight untill you adapt. It is that clear. That is all I am saying...

Your point about the finishing is right. It just takes longer. My point is that you have to adjust to that. Somebopdy doing 20 things in an hour may be doing them all well because he has a finely tuned technique, changing that technique is hard for some, especially those that don''t embrace the metal and who don''t account for the extra time. It is not necesarily hard, but I know of some who make it hard. Not a big point really, I just wanted to illistrate why platinum jewellery, by-in-large has some improvements yet to make.

I don''t really care if plat overrrides white gold. That is not what I am about - I was just ruffling some feathers. As I said, I made w/g pieces for a very well known designer brand and I respect what they are doing and making their w/g pieces is always an enjoyment because their jewellery is excellent. I respect their customers who prefer white gold, so I see your point of view clearly F&I.

After all the customer is always right...

I wouldn''t look at a plat ring and a w/gold ring and say one is better because it is plat, but I definately do prefer the metal for all the reasons above.

I am bowing out of this now.

 

[valeria101]

Does anyone have some silver-on-gold jewelry? Ot platinum-on-gold?

 

[fire&ice]

I''m not knocking Platinum. I adore the bluish hue it has. That''s why I''m a big fan of 980 silver. I also like the patina is takes on. I''m just very surprised (and disappointed) that it pits so bad. I expected the surface scratches - but not the pitting.

Both my gold settings have withstood abuse. And, my white gold setting (from the 30''s or 40''s) is *very* white. I''m a little confused that people talk about Rod. plating white gold. Mine has never been plated. Is the white gold today a different compound that produces a more yellow looking white gold? Is the old formula still availablef?

 

[sevens one]

*

 

[sevens one]

Date: 12/3/2004 10:48:28 AM
Author: valeria101
Does anyone have some silver-on-gold jewelry? Ot platinum-on-gold?

I have a linked braclet with silver links and gold links. I love it.

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

f&i, It should be. It is not technically difficult to produce. I rate that metal, even as a metal purist, but actually it is hard to work with too, mainly because it gets brittle with age. There are some bad ones. When nickel was banned in Europe it was very yellowish. It definately had to be plated and that was difficult to get right given the amount of plating it needed, they stopped offering that and produce a fairly white metal. Not a bad metal. Usually we have a soft version and a hard version and a casting version and maybe a cheap casting version for chain. In some countries the cheap version is not sold cheap and that is what you get. This taints my oppinion of w/g. Just me and the product of frustrating hours over the bench making a silk purse out of a sows ear. It shouldn''t bother you.

Ask for palladium/platinum alloy. They will think your really smart

You should take your pitted platinum ring back. Pitting is a result of poor cassting that affects gold and platinum equally. It is rare for pits to show after the metal was polished and clear. It is in the polishing they show up. The manufacturer would have had the ring sent back and a new one cast at no charge. If the pitts took time to show up, the ring had a manufacturing defect. The trouble of you having to do this is nobodies fault really, you and they were unliky. If this is not feesable, look for someone with a laser welder, maybe the people you purchased it from. It is a very easy job with a laser welder.

Ana,

I love using silver and gold, and gold and plat in theory. I often use polished gold on frosted silver, but have yet to put gold on plat (I would inlay it with 24 and make a nice juxtaposition). I may have seen it a few times - try www.platinumrings.com The issue is about metal purity and price. I can''t stamp 950PLAT on a plat ring with gold on it, though I think such a ring has real potential. If the ring is silver anyway and I use a little gold - same with pendants and chainsa etc, you spend a little but gain a lot. Setting diamonds into silver is becoming popular and more and more manufacturers are setting up to offer silver with gold. It makes sense given the low cost of silver to move it into the high-end braket as silver designer-makers have long been taking advantage of peoples expectation that silver costs are comparable to gold, which they arn''t. I am starting to think that way myself...

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/3/2004 11:19:17 AM
Author: PlatinumSmith

Ana,

I love using silver and gold, and gold and plat in theory.

Oh... I see what you mean. Silver & gold jewelry has a magic quality to me: just because these are the jewelry metals of fairy tales while platinum ain't. But then, Ti is nice because of it's unexpected lighteness... so there is no claim that taste can be rational or consistent in any way at all.

24k gold inlay in brushed, dark gray titanium is definitely spectacular. Have you tried?

However, the posts above had something different in mind: the old white-metal covered gold jewelry like this:

 

[JCJD]

I am a confessed platinum snob! I do not like the way yellow gold looks with my skin tone, and I''m allergic to nickel. Since it''s uncommon to get non-nickel white gold alloys in the US, and platinum isn''t ever alloyed with nickel, I''m getting a platinum ering. My platinum requirement makes it easier on my FI to choose a ring that won''t give me hives without too much effort on his part, and I think platinum has a more silvery look to it than wg, which I really like. And the weight is nice too!

Maybe this is just the mall stores I went to, but the sales people looked at me like I had 3 heads or something when I asked if they carried the palladium white gold alloy instead of nickel. They also said that they have to special order plat settings because they aren''t as popular. Who knows???

 

[denverappraiser]

Old School techniques can be overrated. Faberge would have loved a laser.

It's not the tool, or even the techniques that make a Master and it's not their choice of metal that makes a masterpiece.

Nei Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

This topic can''t be discussed this way.

hard, tricky, childs play, challenging, fun seem to be a measurement of enthusiasm toward some unknown platinum related thing.

It is not something we can discuss, without a clear knowledge of the terms. I know jewellers who say nothing is hard and others that do. I have two in mind ''a'' says we can do anything, nothing is hard for us. It doesn''t mean every job he does is perfect, or that during any given week at one point he didn''t throw his tool across the workshop, swearing, ''b'' said yes thats a tricky thing, yes you need to be aware of that, do you know you can do this and that and how do you get around such and such. ''b'' works to the highest standards I know of and he has an enquiring mind and likes to see what others around him are doing. I know which one I would have make my jewellery, but it is personality thing and a jeweller should always be judged on what he has been making.

I never said plat was hard for me or I struggled with the transformation, but it was an inlvolved process. I have worked with more plat then 99.5% of jewellers. Even those who have worked solely with plat the fast 5 years might have done less, as I doubt they do 70 hour weeks as regular.

I am glad your schooling has taught you well regarding plat. Me I was on a strong learning curb, because I knew I was set to work in this metal a long time. I am self employed and people come to me to do the things their jewellers can''t. They can learn, but if they havent learnt on the bench how to make jewellery and like you suggest, havent had old school principles instilled on them they will never make it. This is what I have experienced. It doesn''t relate to the simple mounting, polishing setting jobs that 90% of jewellers do, but the handmade custom work that very very few can do well. I had to also learn what to charge and I set about cataloging all the differences between doing one job in plat and another in gold. I discovered that every jeweller was finding the same things. Many were forking out months of profit to buy laser welders and special tools. Others were avoiding custom work and working with bought mounts and bought settings as they did with gold.

How you compare the crown jewels etc I don''t know. I was not there when they made them, but their skills are very specific. I know some firms that still manufacture regalia for the Middle East and I know the jewellers would never attempt to say what they are doing is easy.

Having said all that, I don''t know you. I don''t know what you can or can''t do. You could be freakishly good like another guy I know who makes intricate settings in plat as well as he does in gold because whilst being naturally skilled he is also a leader in jewellery making knowledge. People shake their heads when they speak about him and say it all seems easy to him. Perhaps he is like you, but if so, you should show some humility to those who are trying and say to them, yes it can be hard but if you do such and such your job will go well.

Lately I have been around too many jewellers who say and are told they are platinum experts, but I can''t believe them when they say they fuse every join, knowing a lot of alloys can''t be fused, or if they don''t listen when they are told things they couldn''t possably know. I don''t know you and I think I am reacting more to them then to you, so I am sorry if I am being too harsh.

Nothing is hard. You make things hard for yourself. This statement is true.

Jewellery makers are always learning and learning can be hard. I think being humble is the key to learning. Resting on your lorels presents you with a false ceiling.

I prefer to agree then dissagree, but I think we will have to drop it as you suggest.

I look forward to seeing around on the boards

Phillip

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Fair point. I do go on.

We will both keep on learning then, and I will take into account the value of your nice analogy.

Oppinions don''t count for much in our trade.

 

[makemepretty]

I think white gold used to be better quality. Now it seems I''m hearing more stories of it not staying white. I purchased a white gold setting from whiteflash with my ring and I can tell you that 9 months later I can see a yellow tint to it. My son(9) mentioned that it looked yellow at first and I told him I had been thinking the same thing. I had it sized and I guess when they polished it, it removed some of the plating. Not a happy camper. I''m looking into a platinum setting now.

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

There are white, w/g alloys around, but nowdays as everything is rhodium plated, I guess you can''t tel.

The most marked affect will be the exclusion of nickel, which is an illegal additive in many countries.

Valeria, I missread your post from way back. Yes I have worked with titanium & y/gold. The advantage with titanium is that with certain temperatures it changes colour. You add more to yout colour gambit. I would like to do more of that.

Cheers,

PS

 

[windowshopper]

i have platinum topped 18k gold feather brooch set with diamonds from the 20''s

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

 

[pyramid]

Platinum Smith

I am in the United Kingdom and there is no nickel allowed in jewellery here. What metal would they put in the alloy with 18k gold to make 18k white gold over here now?

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

I worked in Brum'' for the past 3 years,

They just offered us, soft or hard. The hard, with paladium which is nice enough. I never had a great deal of luck with white gold and ended up paying more for choice, where I could match my solders alloy with the metal I bought. I often made my pieces in silver and cast them to avoid solder in white gold alltogether.

I still have my L plates on as far as alloys are concerned. The refiners don''t often let their secret blends out, or so it seemed. I just knew which ones I liked to work with, but didn''t know what was in them.

When I first got there, the white gold was yellowish. It was very nice to work with, akin to yellow gold, but that went out, for obvious reasons.

There are charts I can look up, when I get a chance and tell you what the common alloys are. I really need to get my P plates.

Platinum on the other hand - well I have gotten to the bottom of that. Plat 900 with 10% iridium won''t scratch and will polish better. It is good to work with and has more platinum in volume them 950 plat with 5% cobalt. I know which I''d prefer, but the market isn''t here for 900 plat. Cudos to the US et al custom-jewellers who use it.

Cheers,

Phillip