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Pink FCD

justginger

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 11, 2009
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3,712
Was just trolling on Leibish and saw this: http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/2411.htm

What an unusual colored "FIP" -- looks very dark for that color grade. I'd sure like to have a look at the "standard color parameter" stones they have at GIA. I'm toying with the idea of getting it (not a huuuuge fan of the FIO I just received this week), but it's so ugly! :o
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 30, 2005
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Keep in mind GIA's color grades, besides hue, are two-dimensional ranges that have to take TWO things into account.

How much color there is, aka Saturation.
How light or dark the diamond is, aka Tone.
It can be hard to tell tone and saturation apart.

Without training it is NOT intuitive that these are two separate things.
Thinking of them as two separate things requires new thinking and seeing.
I had to climb the Himalayans and meditate at the FCD shrine for three lifetimes before finally started to sink in. :lol:

That 0.22 ct FI Pink you linked to is very very dark in tone, near border of Deep, just below it on the Tone axis, (vertical).



Consider this chart I bought from GIA:



Look at the 7 diamonds that are Fancy Intense.
First look only at the diamond on ONE ROW, from left to right.
All of those diamond have the same tone but increasing color saturation from left to right.

Now look only at the diamond in ONE COLUMN from top to bottom.
All of those dimaonds have the same color saturation but increasing tone from top to bottom.

1.png

Screen shot 2011-06-25 at 4.13.28 PM.png

Screen shot 2011-06-25 at 4.13.28 PM.png
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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FWIW, here is where I bought that $17 chart:

http://store.gia.edu/product_p/chartpink.htm

I am not delighted with the printing quality of the chart.
Color of ink varies throughout a printing run but at least is does convey the relationship between the color grades.

What I posted above is only 1/3 of the chart.
It also has orangy pink and purplish pink.
I only posted pure pink.
 

justginger

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
3,712
There is some degree of subjectivity, is there not? Because to my eyes, using only Leibish's photos, this diamond appears to be dark enough in tone to be classified deep. I suppose under the standardized GIA lighting, it may look completely different.

That is a very handy chart, Kenny. I have spent quite a while trying to visualize the difference between saturation and tone and have struggled - it seems to come very easily to a few other key members of the CS board. Seeing the diamonds lined up in progressive degrees of both saturation and tone make it a bit clearer. But I think when comparing to two stones, side by side, I would still struggle to describe whether one had darker tone or deeper saturation. :(sad I suppose it just takes practice. Thank you for all your help, Kenny.

And - as for this diamond - do you see red in it? In the second, horizontal picture, on my screen and to my eyes, it is fairly reddish pink.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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28,680
justginger|1309045948|2955067 said:
There is some degree of subjectivity, is there not? Because to my eyes, using only Leibish's photos, this diamond appears to be dark enough in tone to be classified deep. I suppose under the standardized GIA lighting, it may look completely different.

That is a very handy chart, Kenny. I have spent quite a while trying to visualize the difference between saturation and tone and have struggled - it seems to come very easily to a few other key members of the CS board. Seeing the diamonds lined up in progressive degrees of both saturation and tone make it a bit clearer. But I think when comparing to two stones, side by side, I would still struggle to describe whether one had darker tone or deeper saturation. :(sad I suppose it just takes practice. Thank you for all your help, Kenny.

And - as for this diamond - do you see red in it? In the second, horizontal picture, on my screen and to my eyes, it is fairly reddish pink.
Ideally we would all have access to a wall chart comprised of 1,000,000 real live pink FCDs meticulously arranged by GIA into their categories, and then positioned carefully within their categories.
This wall chart would be perfectly, evenly and shawdowlesly illuminated.

Next we'd have the actual FCD we are considering purchasing to hold up to the huge wall chart.

Baring that ideal world we are stuck with all the limitations of photography, computer monitors, faded printed GIA reference charts and yes, human subjectivity and even the possibility of human error.
Next throw in the customer's personal preferences and bias.
I'm just glad that Leibish has a good return policy.
FCD shopping is a real pain in the butt.

I have a "pure" vivid yellow per GIA and there is NO way that baby is pure yellow.
When GIA assigns a hue, again it is a range that is centered around one point of pure yellow - the entire Vivid Yellow grade is not a point hue-wise.
GIA pure yellows can vary; one one side of the range they can have a little green, brown on another side and orange on another side.

I think it is the same way with GIA's Deep grade in terms of tone.
I suspect this is very near the border of deep and that may explain the attractive price for a GIA Fancy Intense.
I do see some reddish in it but that means as much as you read into it.
GIA did not put the word red on the report.
 

loriken214

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Oct 21, 2007
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4,348
There is SO much to learn about these diamonds! I would need lots of hand holding!

How on earth do you decide what to buy???? I receive the updates and drool, but have NO CLUE how to choose something.

Lori
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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loriken214|1309047512|2955084 said:
There is SO much to learn about these diamonds! I would need lots of hand holding!

How on earth do you decide what to buy???? I receive the updates and drool, but have NO CLUE how to choose something.

Lori
Just jump in Lori; the water's fine.
Just buy what you like and can afford from a good vendor.

That's what I did.
I didn't know anything when I bought my first one except what I thought was purdy.
I still deeply love that first FCD.
I can't even imagine the increase in value over the last few years.
Maybe even the difference between wholesale and retail. :lol:

9.png
 

loriken214

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
4,348
This is a beauty, Kenny, and I would love to find something like this! Leibish has loads to choose from....

Lori
 

justginger

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May 11, 2009
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I have NO idea what I'm doing, Lori - but it's amazingly easy and painless (did I mention addictive?). And the great thing is, you never choose "wrong" when the vendor has a great return policy. :bigsmile:

Maybe pink step cuts are a good place to start - that's my first too. :love:

I agree with you in regards to your FVY, Kenny - I see a bit of modification in some of your photos. Same with the blue I just bought, I think it might be more grayish blue, though it is graded FIB. The orange I got is definitely pure though - bright Fanta orange, no suggestions of any other hue.

As for the original diamond, I personally think it would be a good buy, in terms of value. But I don't love it.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
28,680
Don't tell anyone but I suspect GIA may be very forgiving of blues, maybe because they are so rare and already so expensive.
If they made their window for fancy Intense Blue any smaller even fewer would make the grade.
My GIA Fancy Intense Blue is also a tad grayish and not terribly intense at all.

I'm just guessing here.
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
Hi Justginger, really glad your addiction is starting to get into full swing! That just means I don't only have to wait for Kenny to get his silver platter out - I can bug you for photos too!

That gem you linked looks too close to deep for me, without enough light exiting the stone to really allow the colour to come through. Of course, unlike Kenny I have no idea what I'm talking about. I can tell that I don't find it pretty though.

In terms of a really nice stone within GIA parameters, i find this FIP very nice:
http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/5228.htm

Same colour range apparently, but the much lighter tone and better saturation make it lovely
 
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