Pear shaped value?

[Mugsalini]

I was wondering if I could get some opinions from any and all the experts on this board. My wife would like to sell her old engagement ring (first marriage). It is about 15 years old and has an IGI certification.

Shape and Cut: Pear shape brilliant cut.
Measurements: 11.86 x 7.69 x 4.61 mm.
Weight: 2.62 carats

Proportions
Depth: 59.9%
Table: 60%
Girdle: Very thin to thick, faceted
Culet: Small

Finish
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good

Clarity: VS(2)

Color: Colorless (D)
Flourescence: None

I would like to know the approximate value of the stone so that when I bring it to a dealer I do not get totaly ripped off.

 

[happyfeet1988]

IGI is generally not the most reliable form of certification, so it is very hard to estimate the value. This is is because the stats you were given for the diamond (D, VS2 you say) are most likely not what GIA would grade it. But, a GIA graded pear with stats you gave is in the price range of 20-21,000 dollars. If you are trying to sell it though, you will probably not get the full value. Also, a pear is not the most popular shape right now, so you must take that into consideration.

 

[~*Snow*~]

Just did a quick search using the tool bar at the top of the screen and this is the only pear cut that showed up ( within the perimitars)

Weight 2.42
Colour: D
Clarity: VS2
65% 58%
GIA
v thn-thk,
gd vg
11.85x7.29x4.74
per carat $14958
for this diamond: $36198

That should give you a rough idea.. expecially the per-carat weight.

 

[~*Snow*~]

Oh Happyfeet also just said it but a D VS from an IGI cert cout very well turn up to be F or G and a Si1 by GIA standards... if you really want toget top dollar get the GIA cert. done before you try to sell it.

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome to Pricescope.

It is usual when trying to sell jewellery and especially major diamonds, to only expect to recoup around 50% or less than the price paid unfortunately. Various factors can affect the value and desirability even more, rounds are the most popular also in the secondary market, fancy shapes less so. GIA and AGS reports are the easier out of the labs to resell or trade, IGI and EGL are not as highly regarded it seems. Your best bet may be to get an independant appraisal to see what would be a realistic price for you to try to sell it at, also if your wife has another diamond in mind, you could try to trade this one in towards an upgrade. Luck also plays a part that you need the right buyer who wants what you have to sell.

This thread may be helpful to give you some ideas on how to try to sell, also it may be worth getting a GIA report on the diamond as this may help, that way a vendor might be interested in helping you to sell it on consignment - see the thread below for more info. Snow, also using the search tool is great for giving an idea for the price of a diamond bought from a vendor, but unfortunately it can be misleading if using it to try to judge the value when trying to resell. Also a diamond with a GIA report will be typically priced higher than one with an IGI lab when using examples, I hope you don't mind me pointing that out.

I wish you luck Mugsalini

Here you go - Reselling Gems and Jewellery - what to expect

 

[elmo]

FWIW internet price on a decent looking, GIA-graded 2.62 D-VS2 is probably much closer to what ''Snow'' is telling you than what ''happyfeet'' is saying...don''t want you making a costly mistake. "List" with the oversize premium is around $40K; if GIA said instead it was F-SI1, it would be around $30K. The FAQ topic about selling requires you to determine a "wholesale" value which probably isn''t "list" and which a qualified appraiser could help you with. I agree, a recent GIA report would probably help.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/26/2007 3:54:45 PM
Author: elmo
FWIW internet price on a decent looking, GIA-graded 2.62 D-VS2 is probably much closer to what 'Snow' is telling you than what 'happyfeet' is saying...don't want you making a costly mistake. 'List' with the oversize premium is around $40K; if GIA said instead it was F-SI1, it would be around $30K. The FAQ topic about selling requires you to determine a 'wholesale' value which probably isn't 'list' and which a qualified appraiser could help you with. I agree, a recent GIA report would probably help.

The FAQ topic I posted to show the OP his options on how he could go about selling his diamond, an independant appraiser is of course the best person to advise on what he might be able to get for it, especially as it seems that some folk have high expectations of what they can realistically recoup when trying to resell it themselves in the secondary market. They then often end up getting far less than they hope for unfortunately.

Also with the lab report, a good expert opinion on the colour and clarity would be very helpful.

http://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx

Here is a list of appraisers to help you find one in your area.

 

[DBM2]

shape of a pear shape diamond is also very important ... too fat or too needlelike can be a hard sell and can stay in stock for years unless it''s recut.

 

[elmo]

Date: 11/26/2007 8:00:49 PM
Author: DBM2
shape of a pear shape diamond is also very important ... too fat or too needlelike can be a hard sell and can stay in stock for years unless it's recut.

Outline might still be unattractive but length/width on this one is pretty good (1.54, not fat or needlelike). Photos please

.

 

[happyfeet1988]

elmo, i searched on jamesallen.com for my price point, so it should be pretty accurate.

 

[elmo]

Date: 11/26/2007 8:35:59 PM
Author: happyfeet1988
elmo, i searched on jamesallen.com for my price point, so it should be pretty accurate.

If a stone is selling at 50 back, in all likelihood there''s a good reason. But it''s not average internet pricing for an attractive pear properly graded.

 

[denverappraiser]

The IGI paperwork is almost certainly going to be a problem when you sell it although this may have more to do with setting your expectations than as a selling tool, especially if you’re selling to a dealer. A dealer is going to estimate several things:

1) What is it?

2) What they think they can sell it for in the least expensive marketplace. Meaning that they will plan to sell it for ‘wholesale’. I’ll get into this in a moment.

3) How long the expect to own it and how much advertising and effort do they expect to need to commit before they can sell it and turn it back into money.

4) How much it would cost them to get one from their regular suppliers if they had a customer who wanted one and they didn’t have yours to sell them. By this I mean that a dealer who was contacted looking for a stone of any particular specs is first going to look in their safe to see if they have one and, failing that, they’ll ring up their suppliers and see how quickly they can get it. Usually the answer to this is overnight with 30 days to pay. This is another version of the ‘wholesale’ price being mentioned above.

5) How much money they have available and what else they might do with that money instead of tying it up in a 2 ½ carat pear.

This all makes for a complicated soup and deconstructing this is part of what a good appraiser is going to do for you. Obviously the dealer is expecting to make a profit on the deal and properly estimating the maximum amount they are likely willing to pay is really the same thought process that the dealer is going through. Let’s take them one at a time.

#1 What is it? Without GIA or AGS paper, the dealer is going to base it entirely on their own grading. WITH GIA paper they are still going to do their own grading but they’ll give the benefit of the doubt to the lab. That is to say, if the report says it’s a D and they think it’s an E, they’ll still pay D prices, or close to it, because they can use the report as a sales tool just like you are doing. This doesn’t work for some of the other labs. If the lab called it a D and they think it’s an E, they’ll buy it as an E. The same is true of clarity, fluorescence, polish and everything else on the report. They’ll base their bid on what they think it is. That’s where one of the big values comes in getting a credible appraisal. It’s ALWAYS best to go into a negotiation knowing what you have rather than relying on what the buyer is willing to tell you.

#2 For most diamond dealers, the bottom line is selling it to another jeweler using what’s called the memo system. In effect, it’s how the dealers here are buying their ‘virtual’ inventory. They then add their markup and advertise it for sale here. There are a few additional costs associated with this but basically this is estimating the dealer costs for stones in the database. Figure wholesale to be about 25% less than what you see advertised here for comparable goods. Remember, ‘comparable’ is a tricky question and it makes a BIG difference. You MUST know what it is or you’ll be comparing with the wrong thing.

#3 Some diamonds move through the store faster than others. F/VS1/Ideal/2.00/GIA/round would be a pretty popular item for most buyers because they can expect to move it out quickly. A K/I1/heart/3.5 would have the opposite effect and they would likely only buy this at a steep discount because it’s likely that they are going to own it for quite a while before the right customer comes along to buy it from them.

#4 This is what is normally quoted as ‘wholesale’. If you went into a jeweler and asked for something that they didn’t have but that they would go out and find for you, this is the price that they would expect to need to pay. Obviously no jeweler with any sense is going to pay you equal to or more than this because buying from you ties up their money in inventory and buying from that other guy doesn’t.

#5 This is a tough one. Obviously if they just don’t have the money then they aren’t going to be buying it from you. The harder thing to guess is their other alternatives. If they pay you $10k and they expect it to take them 2 years to move it they need to be convinced that it’s a better deal than putting their $10 in the bank and simply collecting interest. More importantly, they need to be convinced that giving it to you will be better than saving it for the next person who walks in the store who may be willing to take less.

Even correctly graded, a 2.62 D/VS2/Pear isn’t a popular item. Sad but true. They’re going to discount you because they are likely to own it for a while. You’ve given nothing about cut but most pears are pretty bad. Even at that, an IGI/good/good with v thin girdle isn’t a good sign. They’re going to grade it as they see it although they may not tell you their thoughts but they will certainly bid accordingly. Obviously if it’s really an E or F and an SI1 or even an SI2 this is going to make a considerable difference in their bid.

As I said above, pears aren’t especially popular at the moment and this drives up the estimated holding time, and consequently drives down the prices they’ll pay. 50-60% of wholesale on this kind of thing is a pretty strong bid (more popular shapes do better here). In some markets it’s less. In a few they may pay more, especially if they already have a customer lined up. If there’s a problem with the cutting it’ll be less, especially if they think they’ll need to recut it in order to sell it again.

I’ll walk you through some numbers:
Going back to the database, D-E/VS2-SI1/1.5-1.75 seems to produce offers ranging from $17k-$27k. At a 20% discount, this puts ‘wholesale’ at $13k-$22k (assuming this description is accurate. This is a big IF).

50-60% is $6500 - $13k. If they’ve got a customer lined up before they have to pay you this may bump to more like $16k but for a big pear this would almost certainly require a consignment type deal where you have to leave it with the dealer and wait while they find someone. If recutting is going to be required or the dealer is in a market where they are accustomed to buying things cheaply this bottom number may drop to the $4-$5k range. That’s a factor of 4 span from $4k - $16k, and that’s if they’re being fairly reasonable. If they’re going to stick it to you that bottom number can go as low as they want. THAT’S why you need an appraisal and that's why you need an appraiser that will tell you the hard nosed truth rather than some inflated malarchy to make you feel good or, even worse, make an offer to buy. If a dealer offers you $10k, should you take it? In some cases, yes, in others, heck no. What if they offer you $6k? Or $12k? For some stones those are all pretty reasonable, possibly even generous. For others that’s leaving quite a bit of money on the table. A couple of hundred bucks on an appraisal to learn the difference strikes me as money well spent.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[iheartscience]

Wow, Neil, what an informative post! Thanks for taking the time to explain exactly how it works...very interesting.

 

[Lorelei]

I echo To2, fantastic and very helpful post Sir Neil

 

[elmo]

Too bad the BB configuration won't let me cross-link Neil's post here as an addendum to the "Reselling Gems and Jewellery - what to expect" topic in the FAQ. It certainly belongs there.

Mugsalini - Good luck!

 

[gtn]

If your wife does not like the price someone will pay for her old ering, why not consider having the stone reset as something else. Pear cuts are not the most popular cuts for erings now, but can make a very lovely pendant or other piece.

I know this does not answer your question, but it is another other option if you want to maintain the value of the stone.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/27/2007 2:48:25 PM
Author: gtn
If your wife does not like the price someone will pay for her old ering, why not consider having the stone reset as something else. Pear cuts are not the most popular cuts for erings now, but can make a very lovely pendant or other piece.

I know this does not answer your question, but it is another other option if you want to maintain the value of the stone.

I was thinking exactly the same thing, check out this beauty made with a similar sized pear ( if I remember rightly)

StarryEyed''s Pear Pendant

 

[Mugsalini]

Wow, I wan''t to thank you all for all the great advise. You all have been very helpful.

I brought the piece to a diamond dealer in NY that I have done business with in the past to see what he would say. He also said to get it GIA certified first and then he would work on consignment. He figures that GIA will probably lower it to say a E, SI1 and that I could get between $16,500 and $18,500 for it. Also his fee would be 4%. I don''t know much about this stuff, is 4% typical?

Thank you in advance...

 

[Lorelei]

I would get an independant appraisal for your own peace of mind, it will be money well spent. Tell the appraiser your plans and he can advise you accordingly on what a fair price would be depending on how you sell it, also how it might grade with a GIA report. He can verify what the dealer has told you pricewise too, so you can proceed with confidence.