Pear shaped diamond

[KingKuda]

I think it's gorgeous and would try it out

Thank you so much, always gut wrenching when you think you might have selected the wrong diamond. It just takes one comment and you start to your doubt yourself.

Are there any noticeable concerns with the feathers that appear to be on the girdle? That was what worried me the most. The plotting diagram looks really messy, however I was told that was a good sign in an SI1 coloured diamond.

 

[KingKuda]

Edit...is this the same one with the point issue? Ask to speak to a gemologist about it.

No, this is an entirely new diamond. No point issue here, just the fear of the hairlines on the girdle.

 

[HappyNewLife]

who is the vendor? What is their return policy? I'm not a durability expert, sorry

 

[KingKuda]

who is the vendor? What is their return policy? I'm not a durability expert, sorry

Vendor is a local in Sydney. The returns policy is great and it was paid through PayPal.

 

[rockysalamander]

In pears, I worry mostly around the tip (akin to the points of a princess cut), where the stone is thin. There is nothing in that area that given me pause on https://pck.azureedge.net/stone-multimedia/stone-multimedia.htm?stoneId=2825230112#

What I did note is that there is an feather on the table, see below. This is not a durability issue, but could be a place that dirt and grime accumulate. So, examine this area carefully under magnification...as high as you can to really see how the surface looks here.

 

[KingKuda]

OK, will do. That's great feedback, thank you.

Overall are there any other concerns you see with this diamond? Any durability issues or does it overall look like a good stone?

 

[tyty333]

Have you seen it in person?

 

[KingKuda]

Have you seen it in person?

Not just yet, no, it is being imported in as we speak.

My concerns were more relating to durability and whether it was even worth looking at it if there is a structural concern with it.

 

[cflutist]

In pears, I worry mostly around the tip (akin to the points of a princess cut), where the stone is thin. There is nothing in that area that given me pause on https://pck.azureedge.net/stone-multimedia/stone-multimedia.htm?stoneId=2825230112#

What I did note is that there is an feather on the table, see below. This is not a durability issue, but could be a place that dirt and grime accumulate. So, examine this area carefully under magnification...as high as you can to really see how the surface looks here.

Good eye, rocky

 

[KingKuda]

What I did note is that there is an feather on the table, see below. This is not a durability issue, but could be a place that dirt and grime accumulate. So, examine this area carefully under magnification...as high as you can to really see how the surface looks here.

In regards to this comment, you will see that it says Table 'Open' Hairline. Does the 'Open' insinuate that the feather has broken the surface? The Gemologist who is ordering the stone in has said that won't be the case and that the term 'open' is used often by the Indian people polishing the stone as a way of describing a bubble on the diamond? I've probably gotten that completely wrong, he went into big amounts of detail and I struggled to follow, but essentially he was saying that the word 'open' does not indicate that it has penetrated the surface.

 

[KingKuda]

So I am obsessing over this far more than is healthy

Looking closely at the plotting chart, one of the feathers appears to break the surface and the other feather appears to run along the girdle. I've taken a screenshot of both of these parts to highlight the areas of concern.

Is this a durability risk? That is my biggest concern with all this, a diamond that one day breaks.

 

[rockysalamander]

When looking at feathers, pay attention to their size and position. Generally, if a feather does not create an opening on the surface of the stone, if it does not reach the girdle edge, or if it does not connect to other feathers near the surface, then it should not be a durability issue....Feather inclusions should be examined on an individual basis. from https://www.pricescope.com/journal/diamond_feather_inclusions_durability_risk {great read with quotes from lots of excellent folks in the trade}

If they say "open" on only some of them vs. all, then I assume these are ones that are open to the surface -- which is why I wanted you to carefully look at it. I have no idea what he means by a bubble -- unless it is just a way of describing a fissure internal to the crystal that is surrounded by solid material (i.e., a closed feather). That plot suggests the feather breaks the surface (which many do). The location on the table places that feather where chips and damage can occur during the life of a diamond. But, it is isolated and not near or really connected to a bunch of others. That is a good thing.

The one on the girdle looked tiny to me, but I'm glad you noted it for examination. Size is important and those tiny ones generally don't pose much of a risk in my experience -- especially when isolate from others.

For any girdle concerns (like the tiny feather and other little things), you can use a more protective setting. A classic bezel is always possible, but a prong-in-bezel setting can be quite beautiful.

As long as your jeweler is actually a gemologist, they can help you once the stone is in hand. For your sanity, maybe it would be wise to find a PS recommended appraiser to examine the stone for you once it arrives. Someone not involved in trying to actually sell you this stone (or some other one they have).

 

[KingKuda]

As long as your jeweler is actually a gemologist, they can help you once the stone is in hand. For your sanity, maybe it would be wise to find a PS recommended appraiser to examine the stone for you once it arrives. Someone not involved in trying to actually sell you this stone (or some other one they have).

That's great advice and I'll definitely take it on board.

It's such a tough situation when you are already pushing your budget, there's obviously going to have to be sacrifices here and there, I just don't want the durability of the diamond exposed.

Based on your high level review, can you see any major concerns? I understand you are hesitant without a closer look and fully agree with that, but based in whaton what you've seen is it anything major?

 

[rockysalamander]

There is nothing on the plot that would prevent me from thinking this is well worth looking at in person. The faceting is equally important to remember. There is some mush on this, but all pear's have it. You have to decide if it suits you.

You may not want to, but I'd really love if you'd like your intended look at this diamond and help make the choice. In the end, she has to love this and pears are tricky when you consider the near infinite proportions available and the faceting that results. They are so must less predictable than rounds. She really need to study that bowtie and faceting and be sure this is her desire.

Ideally, I'd love if she could compare to a super-ideal round to this pear as a pear will give up a lot of performance relative to a round. I've worked with many friends who started out on a fancy shape and elected to change to a round once they saw the comparison. Maybe it is worth getting a CBI using the "try before you buy" and they will ship to a jeweler for examination. I'd echo what was said above, the I'd drop to G or H to get more size for your budget.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9703

 

[tyty333]

Is this an SI2? I think I missed the clarity spec. What is the first, second, third inclusions listed on the map?

 

[rockysalamander]

Its a SI1.

 

[KingKuda]

Correct, it is SI1 and from my reading I've seen it mentioned with somewhat regularity that more inclusions on an SI1 is superior than fewer inclusions which tend to indicate that they are larger. I've also read that the durability of an SI1 is relatively safe, else it would have received a lower grading.

These appear to be generalisations however, as whenever this is mentioned, it seems to spark debate.

 

[KingKuda]

Just me again, being paranoid. If you watch the link I put up with the video, at the 2 second mark you can see the feather stretching along the diamond. I really don't want anything with a durability risk at all.

 

[Sunstorm]

Hi KingKuda,

Very interesting thread. I am personally also a fan of pears but I am also very picky, good pears are hard to find.

I cannot comment on specific stones you are considering but I can relay some general points to consider.

-Fluorescence. This is a very subjective subject. Few stones are negatively impacted by it and those can be horribly milky. If that is not the case, fluor will not affect a stone but it does affect value and you will definitely see it. You will see flashes of blue in certain lights. Whether this is something your fiancee to be likes, it is hard to tell. I used to be against fluor because fluor has such a negative reputation in the trade but having seen stones with it, I personally love the effect. I only do not like it when it washes out color in some FCDs but this is not the case here. Still, better to be on the safe side and only choose stones up to medium since you do not know whether your partner likes it or not.

-LW ratio. Ideally stay as close to 1.5 as possible, especially since she indicated her preferences. If you have the pictures to share, do, we can tell more about the stones she likes if we see the pix. I personally agree with you that a pear visually looks and performs the best around the ideal and if anything I like to lean more towards 1.45 rather than go higher but this is somewhat subjective. A bit wider pears on the top seem to perform better in my opinion, look larger and that is what personally appeals to me as well.

-On the color and clarity issue. This is an important one to consider. Anything down to F will look icy white as long as it has a GIA report. G will still look very white but not icy. If I were you, I would be open to going down to F and actually consider some stones that are VS2. This would be a much safer option. You do not necessarily have to get a 1.5, you can look at the faceup size and choose something just below to get a better value.

I would stay away from anything potentially impacting durability especially in a pear. Girdle reaching feather, surface reaching feathers and indented naturals can pose a risk. I actually own a pear with such(except no table reaching open feather) and I really baby my stone but it would be best to stay away from problem inclusions. A surface reaching feather is not something I would recommend.

Please take your time, you have plenty and do not jump into any purchase hastily. The type of stone you are looking for is not terribly hard to find, albeit not super easy but you will I am sure. Just do not panic and hurry with such an important purchase. If anything, if you find budget being a restrictive problem, try increasing your budget slightly.

 

[pyramid]

There was a GIA grader here some time ago and a long discussion thread with references to GIA instruction manuals and the outcome was that he said all plotted feathers on a GIA report reach the surface, a feather which does not reach the surface he said would be plotted as a crystal instead. Now reaching the surface and being open is maybe two different things I don't know.

 

[KingKuda]

There was a GIA grader here some time ago and a long discussion thread with references to GIA instruction manuals and the outcome was that he said all plotted feathers on a GIA report reach the surface, a feather which does not reach the surface he said would be plotted as a crystal instead. Now reaching the surface and being open is maybe two different things I don't know.

I always enjoy reading your posts Pyramid.

What are your views on this diamond?

 

[Lorelei]

It definitely has potential, pears are so individual and it can be hard to find one that ticks most of the boxes. I'd say if you like this one, make any sale contingent on a favourable report from an independent appraiser, unless the feather will always be a worry to you, then it's not worth it.

 

[Lorelei]

Kuda, I just wanted to add re your concerns about a diamond breaking, yes it can happen unfortunately and the tip of a pear is one place where you can see breaks or it'll shear off altogether due to the shape, it's vulnerable and that's that. Having said that. set your pear so the tip is as well protected as possible ( enclosed tip, not exposed), wear with care and you should be ok.

But even rounds can break, I remember a poster from years ago who knocked her round diamond against a shopping cart, that was VS clarity if I remember rightly and it broke in two. So it's rare but not unheard of and good insurance in any case is always prudent.

 

[pyramid]

I think it is a lovely pear but if it is not mindclean to you then get another whilst you still have chance. I think a lot of talk about feathers is an online thing, we never here jewellers talking about them, maybe it is a customer thing, I do remember however that years ago when the appraisers were online they brought up feathers a lot. Back then I think as there were not many people online, they were trying to educate us and also they were expecting people from all walks of life with no education at all, not those who are on here and have been for months. When feathers were mentioned, I think it was not feathers like the ones we see in an SI1 diamond but ones that were found in ungraded diamonds, or diamonds jewellers said were SI1 but without grading reports, therefore the appraisers I believe were expecting the SI1s discussed to be more like I1 to I2 and feathers crossing many facets. I have seen reference on line to things like don't buy a diamond if the feather crosses over two or more facets.

I always think of feathers too like a crack in a plate at the edge, where if the plate is used, the crack can sometimes become like a triangle shape right on the edge and eventually the crack will open and the plate break. This may be what they are referring to as feathers on the edge of girdles, however, in line with these feathers in the past we were being reminded about very thin and extremely thin girdles, which are never mentioned and are not on ideal cut diamonds. As one rocket scientist who used to write on here said to me one time, I was saying a crack in a piece of glass looks like it will break, similar to the plate idea, and he reminded me that a pane of glass is not like a diamond which is like a sphere and more solid.

So I think it depends on the context that feathers are being discussed. Some appraisers writing on a forum are independent as in not part of a jewellers store selling you, however, they are not for the fact they are trying to put their name out there and gain business. I believer the appraiser of the past were good people and some vendors even said they believed that some who wrote about these things really believed them. I just think they may have been thinking about uneducated buyers buying very cheap in the scheme of things diamonds, I know none of then are really cheap.

My money here goes with Wink and seemed to speak favourably about your stone, I think if he saw anything to worry about online, he would have said, to look further as there are better stones out there or something of this nature. No expert is going to alleviate all your fears, for fear that your diamond does chip and you come back saying they said it would be okay. No appraiser will even tell you it is 100 per cent okay as they don't know for certain.

All I can say is what I think, how many diamonds have you heard of that have chipped it is not something you hear every year even from people around you.

 

[pyramid]

p.s. thank you for saying you like my posts.

 

[Lorelei]

Pyramid is awesome! xxxx

 

[pyramid]

I remember questioning once why ideal diamond had thin to medium girdles as everything I read said go for medium. An appraiser said the Whiteflash diamonds I was questioning were okay as they had higher crown angles. Now this was MRB diamonds, not old cuts with high crowns as they were not popular back then online. Therefore as I said with the feathers, they were speaking when they warned us about thin girdles about lesser cut diamonds with low crown angles etc. Therefore I think all this feather talk relates to lesser proportioned diamonds and yet this never gets said as no one makes the connection to what was said in the past, just what they are reading today.

 

[pyramid]

Was going to say that Garry Holloway has said on here that he sees more breaks in diamonds caused by cleavage than by feathers. I have only once know of a broken diamond, it was one time I walked into a jeweller in a city and heard the assistant talking to the owner about someone who had phoned and her diamond had broken in two. This was a higher end jeweller in these parts and it was an oil city so I think the diamond for the UK was probably about 1 carat rather than 0.25. Ofcourse my ears pricked up being interested and I eavesdropped (shameful I know). The owner asked about seeing it and the assistant said she was on her way in with it

 

[pyramid]

Having to write all these posts as computer keeps stopping me.

The owner went on to say it would have split in its crystal direction. I remember thinking that means cleavage as I had learned that here. Only time I have heard of a diamond breaking. Never heard anyone speak about their's chipping although I am not seeing lots of diamonds like a jeweller would.

 

[pyramid]

Hi Lorelei

Good to see you back here. I would wave but my little wavey symbols are not showing either.

Awesome, here that word more around here now. Another one is cool.