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Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry store

amalama

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
5
My engagement ring has three rows of pave halfway around the band, the wedding band has one row. My fiance bought the ring in December of 2010, he proposed in May 2011. We had to get it re-sized right away, and I asked the jeweler then if it would damage the band because I had heard that was a problem with pave bands. She said because I wasn't changing the size that much (I can't remember for sure but I think I went from a 7 to a 5.5) that it wouldn't be a problem.

Since then I have lost 2 stones from the engagement ring and 1 from the band (that I have never even worn except to try it on!). I also had one stone that was noticeably darker than the others, it looked like something was under the stone or it was set wrong so it didn't catch the light the way the others did or something. We sent both rings in to fix all three of those things (1 missing stone in each and the darker stone), and got it back a month and a half later with the missing stones replace but the darker stone still there. We sent it back again for another month and a half to get that fixed. When we sent it we also spoke to the manager of the store about it, and asked again if it was because we had re-sized it. She again said it shouldn't be a problem, and said that she would have them check all the stones, and if it looked like it was damaged they would remake the ring. When we picked it up they said it was fine. That was in December and I just noticed another stone is now missing. It might be the same spot as before, but I am not 100% sure of that.

We have had some other problems with the jeweler, such as them charging us for sizing when they weren't supposed to (which was refunded), a saleslady trying to charge me for repair the last time, then hanging up on me, and the weirdest thing is that the receipt for the purchase does not match what we have. It shows three separate items (solitaire ering in platinum, white gold remount, and white gold diamond band, all with separate prices). My fiance asked about that later (not when he purchased it, I guess he didn't notice, but one of the times he went back to pick it up or drop it off) and the solitaire ering was actually just the price of the diamond but then why wouldn't it just say that?

Basically all of this combined has me worried that they are extremely shady, my ring will never be fixed correctly, and I will constantly have this problem. As long as we talk to the right person they do fix it for free (but other salespeople have tried to charge us so what if that one leaves), but I also think it sucks that every few months I am going to have send it off for at least a month. We are going in Wednesday to drop it off again and talk to them (we are waiting until then because we both want to go, he is the one that originally purchased it but he has been a little to nice with them in my opinion so I want to be there too). I guess my questions are is any of this normal? Am I being unreasonable to expect that my ring will last longer then 6 months between needing repairs? And if I am not being unreasonable does anyone have any advice on what I should be asking the jeweler to do to fix this? I am not even sure if I trust them to remake my ring!
 

Mike R

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
242
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

Sadly what your dIscribing is a very common problem people have, but that doesn't mean you or others should just accept it.

All pave rings are not of equal quality, while some can be resized others can not, it sounds like your ring should have never been resized but instead they should have ordered you a new one in your correct finger size.
When a pave ring is sized down that much the little holes that the diamonds are set into become stretched into a slightly oval shape, chances are every stone in your ring is slightly loose

Because your ring has to be sent out for repair I'm guessing you are dealing with sales assistants rather than a jeweler, this can also make sorting out your problems more difficult, ask to speak to the Owner/manager. Phone ahead and make an appointment.
Make a written list of the problems you have had so far and how long the repairs took, also list what your acceptable resolution might be.

Keep calm while telling them about your problems, let them know in a nice way how disapionted you are in the ring and how it isn't correct that you should be having these problems for the rest of the life of your ring.

I don't think you have to be worried about trusting the store to make you a new ring, they more than likely never made this one, they should be able to order a new ring from their supplier in the correct finger size for you.

You could also have a condition report done on your ring by an appraiser, having a written independent damage report might help a stubborn manager see your point of view.

You could also post some pictures of your ring here and see if we can spot any other problems that might be causing your problems.

.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

Mike gave you perfect advice. I suggest you follow it.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
9,740
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

+1 to Mike's excellent post.

I truly hope we can assist you in getting a positive resolution.
 

amalama

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
5
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

Thanks for the advice Mike. The stretching is what I had read about before, and what I had asked about before it was every re-sized. I guess that is my biggest frustration, that I feel like it all could have been avoided then. It is a mall jewelry store so we have been dealing with the salespeople, not the person actually repairing it. We will call ahead and ask to speak to the manager this time. They did say that they sent it back to the same person who made the ring (not when the sized it but when it needed repairs), to make sure that it was done correctly and that the other stones were fine.

Also, I hadn't thought about taking it to a separate appraiser, so I think we will see what someone else says and then decide what we want the store to do about it. I also don't have any pictures that really show the detail of the ring so I will try to take some and post them later this evening. Thanks again for all the help.
 

Mike R

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
242
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

amalama|1335129338|3177949 said:
Thanks for the advice Mike. The stretching is what I had read about before, and what I had asked about before it was every re-sized. I guess that is my biggest frustration, that I feel like it all could have been avoided then. It is a mall jewelry store so we have been dealing with the salespeople, not the person actually repairing it. We will call ahead and ask to speak to the manager this time. They did say that they sent it back to the same person who made the ring (not when the sized it but when it needed repairs), to make sure that it was done correctly and that the other stones were fine.

Also, I hadn't thought about taking it to a separate appraiser, so I think we will see what someone else says and then decide what we want the store to do about it. I also don't have any pictures that really show the detail of the ring so I will try to take some and post them later this evening. Thanks again for all the help.

Your situation is very frustrating but try not to let it get you frustrated, it will do you no good, your more likely to get a good outcome if you can keep things pleasant.

Most mall jewellery store assistants I have met have been under paid under educated in jewellery and over worked, keep in mind they are most probably dealing with many frustrated clients every day. Again that doesn't excuse them, but it is the managers problem, I sort of feel sorry for the poor sale assistants.

Please do post pictures, we are all here to try our best to help.
 

Mike R

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
242
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

Oh, and if it's one of the big mall type chain stores I might be tempted to skip talking to the manager of the store but instead try to contact someone high up in the corporation.
 

Enerchi

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Messages
10,658
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

I couldn't offer any better advice than Mike's above, but just stay calm and cool when dealing with the manager (or higher, if possible). Emotions will cloud your judgement and I really believe you have a good case for a replacement setting. Who is the manufacturer of your ring - you could ask to speak with their sales rep for that company... better to meet the rep in their store, if possible. A new setting in your size seems the appropriate solution... unless... would you consider an alternate set in a different style that won't be at risk of losing stones over the lifespan of your rings?

Best of luck, I know the frustration of having to argue for a resolution! Hope yours ends well :))
 

Christina...

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,028
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

Mike, would sizing a pave shank 1/4 or 1/2 a size cause the same issue?
 

Mike R

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
242
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

Christina...|1335146458|3178123 said:
Mike, would sizing a pave shank 1/4 or 1/2 a size cause the same issue?

Hi Christina, it really depends, some things to consider

1) age of ring, older rings with wear can be more problematic than newer rings.

2) I find cast rings have more problems with stretching the seats for the melee resulting in loose stones.

3) the number or beads per melee, the better pave normally has four beads per melee, some melee use a shared bead method where one bead can be holding upto three melee at a time, shared bead pave is more of a problem during sizing.

4) some cast rings are scooped out and hollow in the back to save on metal weight, these are also more prone to warping during sizing.
This is the same for really light weight/flimsy rings. Also if the casting has any internal week spots from porosity or bad solder joins and a handmade ring that can cause problems.

4) and the most important factor is how well the pave was done in the first place.

It's always best to have the original maker of the ring do the sizing if possible, they will best know the limits of the piece.
If that's not an option find the best on site jeweller you can.

If you want to start a new thread with pictures of your ring I will see if I can give some further advice or recommendations if you would like.
 

CharmyPoo

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
7,007
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

Mike - I just want to say that you have been such a valuable contributor to the community. I really enjoy reading your posts.
 

Mike R

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
242
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

CharmyPoo|1335155498|3178210 said:
Mike - I just want to say that you have been such a valuable contributor to the community. I really enjoy reading your posts.

Thanks so much for that CharmyPoo, it's only fair that I contribute, I really enjoy all the pictures you guys share with me. (especially your beautiful LM ring!)
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

CharmyPoo|1335155498|3178210 said:
Mike - I just want to say that you have been such a valuable contributor to the community. I really enjoy reading your posts.

me too. it is really nice to have someone with your expertise and perspective on jewelry making contributing to the forum.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

slg47|1335157663|3178237 said:
CharmyPoo|1335155498|3178210 said:
Mike - I just want to say that you have been such a valuable contributor to the community. I really enjoy reading your posts.

me too. it is really nice to have someone with your expertise and perspective on jewelry making contributing to the forum.


Mike is a great addition, I totally agree and hope he has the patience to put up with us for a good long while.
 

Christina...

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,028
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

Thanks so much Mike! I'll start a thread later today and give you all the details, if you wouldn't mind giving me your input! :bigsmile:


And a big apology to amalama for the mini thread jack! ;))
 

ame

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
10,872
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

Yknow, I just saw the size jump that was made...they resized a pave ring more than two sizes, they did 6 sizes, really. Going from a 7 to a 5.5 is a BIG jump, and they really should've made that ring to size. I hope this jeweler will do the right thing.
 

amalama

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
5
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

I'm back today with pictures and an update from an appraiser. First here are some pictures I took yesterday, I am not that great at getting good pictures of the detail so I'm not sure how much they will help.

IMG_3142.jpg
_MG_3157.jpg

I also took it to another jeweler today, a small local one that had in house appraisal and repair, and that I found some good reviews for. The jeweler there said that some of the beads are practically non existent and I am definitely going to have more problems. He also said that it doesn't look like it is all because of the sizing, that probably made it worse but it is also not well made and should never have been sold. We are going to take it to one other jeweler and get a report in writing to take with us to talk to the manager of the store we bought it from.

At this point I have no idea what to do. I don't want to ask for it to be remade because this jeweler said it wasn't well made to begin with. We could ask for store credit to get a different ring, but I am pretty upset that I have to get a different style of ring because they can't make this one right. And I seriously doubt they are going to be willing to give us our money back to go somewhere else. The only thing we can thing of is asking for credit and just buying a stone, then taking it somewhere else to be set. If anyone has any more ideas before we go talk to them on Wednesday that would be great. Thank you all again.
 

Enerchi

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Messages
10,658
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

Good that you are getting independent opinions, but I'd get an independent appraiser's report. That would be better than a "he said/she said" go no where, type of discussion with the original manager. Proof in an appraisal is better.

Can you return or exchange or get store credit at this point? That may be an option, if they go for it. Perhaps looking at a different style or a style made by another manufacturer's line in the store?

I hope it goes well for you. Just stay calm. This was an issue in recent months for another poster (it wasn't Ame's - it was a different situation that my mind is blank on...) but Mike R had some great suggestions. Hopefully he'll share again.
 

Mike R

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
242
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

Gypsy|1335163580|3178254 said:
slg47|1335157663|3178237 said:
CharmyPoo|1335155498|3178210 said:
Mike - I just want to say that you have been such a valuable contributor to the community. I really enjoy reading your posts.

me too. it is really nice to have someone with your expertise and perspective on jewelry making contributing to the forum.


Mike is a great addition, I totally agree and hope he has the patience to put up with us for a good long while.

Thanks guys!
 

Mike R

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
242
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

amalama|1335209016|3178640 said:
I'm back today with pictures and an update from an appraiser. First here are some pictures I took yesterday, I am not that great at getting good pictures of the detail so I'm not sure how much they will help.

IMG_3142.jpg
_MG_3157.jpg

I also took it to another jeweler today, a small local one that had in house appraisal and repair, and that I found some good reviews for. The jeweler there said that some of the beads are practically non existent and I am definitely going to have more problems. He also said that it doesn't look like it is all because of the sizing, that probably made it worse but it is also not well made and should never have been sold. We are going to take it to one other jeweler and get a report in writing to take with us to talk to the manager of the store we bought it from.

At this point I have no idea what to do. I don't want to ask for it to be remade because this jeweler said it wasn't well made to begin with. We could ask for store credit to get a different ring, but I am pretty upset that I have to get a different style of ring because they can't make this one right. And I seriously doubt they are going to be willing to give us our money back to go somewhere else. The only thing we can thing of is asking for credit and just buying a stone, then taking it somewhere else to be set. If anyone has any more ideas before we go talk to them on Wednesday that would be great. Thank you all again.

I think you are doing mostly all the correct things.
Personally I would prefure that you get a report from an independent appraiser (one that does not sell jewellery or work in a retail store)
Having a report done with a competitors letterhead on it will not carry any weight in your negotiations and might get the sellers back up a bit.

It sounds like you did get great advice as to the rings condition from the people you talked to though, like you said the pictures aren't great and the ring looks a little dirty so they could see things that I can't in these pictures.

The ring does look like it is a cast ring with the beads and holes in the casting, I find these types of rings do have more problems than others. The ring also does look like behind the pave on the inside of the ring, that it is scooped out (hollow) judging from the looks of the hole I can see, in my opinion for what it's worth this ring should not have been sized down that much.

See if you can get your appraiser to give the ring a clean and then take some good macro pictures of where the beads are missing or not making contact with the diamonds, print them out on large pieces of paper, it will be very hard for them to argue against the evidence in front of them.

Don't rush into any settlement, take your time to think over their offer and weigh up all your possible options.
Good luck.
 

amalama

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
5
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

I hadn't thought about it being a competitor, but that does make sense Mike. We did want to go to one more place anyway just to be thorough so I will find one that is not affiliated with a jewelry store. Pictures are a great idea too. We are going to make an appointment with the manager, but also ask to speak to the actual jeweler or someone higher up if we need to. And we definitely aren't going to rush to take the first thing they offer to do because they have already tried to fix it and failed. I will be back with more updates I'm sure after talking to an appraiser and the store. Thanks again!
 

amalama

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
5
Re: Pave setting losing diamonds and questionable jewelry st

That link doesn't list anyone for Missouri, but I did some searching and found some recommendations for Therese Kienstra (in St. Louis). I called her but if anyone has any other recommendations for an appraiser near St. Louis that would be great.
 
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