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Home Parents-- How much did you spend during your child''s first year?

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I agree with TGal's calculations based on my experiences so far.

A great way to save money is breastfeed (assuming you are able to - and I would recommend reading a good book or two on breastfeeding before you have the baby to help you get off to the best start possible). I was talking to a guy today who said he was spending over $700/month on formula!!

Childcare is a HUGE expense. In fact, figuring out what I'd really be taking home after taxes, commuting and childcare costs helped me to figure out that it was worth it to be a SAHM for a while.

I also agree with TGal, we don't go out as often and I don't shop much for myself at all anymore, so that saves $.

We were lucky to be able to borrow lots of things from friends. I hope to return the favor and loan the things we bought to friends in the future. Also, less stuff to store that way. Some friends have gotten great deals at consignment stores and sales and craigslist. I'd say not to buy something unless you are sure you'll need it, and look for things that do double duty (to save money as well as space). Example: we have a swing/bouncer combo (borrowed). Pack-n-play that also works for changing table. I bought a cute diaper bag, but as it turns out it's just as easy to carry any tote bag with a changing pad.

I also have found that lots of stores send out coupons on their email list. I go to the Carters Outlet using one of their many 20% off coupons, and I've bought tons of adorable, functional clothes for CHEAP.

Kids are expensive though, no matter what!
 
I can''t face adding up the costs of all the gear right now, but our biggie is day care. Keep in mind that San Diego is a very expensive city, but we pay $325 per week, which is $16,900 per year!
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That''s almost as much per year as I paid to go to a top law school.

Breastfeeding didn''t work out, so we pay $25 per canister for Similac Organic, and go through about 1 per week, so that''s another $1300 per year. She started eating solids 3 months ago. I probably spend $30-40 per month buying fruits and veggies and making food for her, which is actually reducing her consumption of the expensive formula.

Thank goodness I have excellent insurance, so we paid $0 for L&D and a $10 co-pay for each Dr. visit. So that''s probably $80 for the year.

The nursery furniture was about $3500, and the stroller about $400. (I have expensive taste.) We received so much clothing as gifts, we haven''t needed to buy much.

The two lifesavers for me have been her Tiny Love Gymini and Baby Einstein activity seat -- I paid about $50 for each on sale.

Kids are not cheap, however, we will be foregoing expensive foreign vacations for at last a few years until we feel she is old enough to travel with us or be left with the grandparents for 2-3 weeks. (I won''t endure a 12 hour flight each way for a trip of less than 2 weeks.) We also eat out a lot less.
 
Breast feed and you''ll save a lot in formula.

Craigslist, garage sales, mother''s clubs are a great place to buy used baby stuff. The hard part is accepting that you can use something that''s not spanking brand new. Once people''s kids are past the age they want to give the stuff away just to get rid of it. This is especially true in California where there are no basements for storage.

Using cloth diapers may or may not be economical. It was 20 years ago for me (for infants only). They poop and pee so often but not very much quantity. I always used disposable when we were not at home but loved the diaper service. I hate wipes except when traveling.

Daycare and babysitting can add up.

Our insurance was a family plan so that didn''t add much.

Our babies ate about half regular food and half baby food but preferred regular food as soon as they got some teeth.

It can for done for cheap but with all the cute baby stuff they sell it''s hard not to buy everything.
 
I have absolutely no idea how much I spent in the first year and I really might make myself sick if I start to calculate so let's just say a lot!! BUT I would say the majority of my spending was on childcare since I live in NYC and it's super expensive here. In terms of "stuff", we got a lot at the shower and returned quite a few high ticket items so we had credits to use on stuff we needed. Biggest expense was the Bugaboo. In terms of diapers, we are lucky that my MIL has taken it upon herself to supply us with those which she gets at BJs. I send her all the Pampers coupons I get though! We get wipes and formula at BJs or Costco as well--thanks to Diver's recommendation, we switched to the generic formula and have saved a ton of money by doing that!

Mara, sign up on all the baby product websites so you can get coupons and samples--Similac, Enfamil, Pampers, Huggies, etc. In terms of clothing, less is more and don't pay full price for ANYTHING! There are always sales and coupons. Places like Target have adorable kid's clothes that won't break the bank. I splurge on shoes because I don't think you can scrimp on those but if you can hit up a Stride Rite outlet, you can get deals. Carters also has outlets and so do most of the kids' clothing stores. You can find great prices and sales at Gap, Gymboree, H&M, Old Navy, etc. I refuse to pay a lot for clothes because they either stain them permanently or grow out of them so quickly. Or both! I was lucky to have 2 girls so we could reuse everything though. TGal mentioned some great websites and I have to agree with the ones she suggested, especially babycheapskate. I've found out about so many deals and freebie giveaways from that site. And always accept hand me downs! We have relatives who have given us AMAZING stuff that is good as new--both clothes and gear--so never say no if someone offers you something for free!!
 
I have no idea how much we spent the first year but I do know healthcare now & during my pregnancy is where we have spent the most money- thousands...
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Date: 7/30/2009 8:03:14 PM
Author: Mara
yes TG for me i def am like...ok diapers are a huge expense, how do you make that cheaper or more affordable. formula. food. and yes things like onesies etc. buying a box on ebay or craigslist is a great idea.... my sister went through like 5 onesies a day when she was a baby (i was 16 so i remember this stuff really well)...so i def want to stock up on those basics over anything designer. i am also telling people to not buy me anything that is not on my registries for ''big'' stuff, i don''t want extra crap i have to store just cuz they think it''s cool. things like a onesie or a paci or whatever is cool since they are tiny but anything else no thanks!
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Mara, I must have missed your announcement but I just wanted to offer my congratulations to you and your husband!
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I breastfed both kids, so $0 until we started adding cereal at 9 months and then babyfood after that. One of the perks working for my Dr is free medical care for us and our families. So, that saves us a bundle. My office care when I was pg w/Trapper was totally free. Didn''t work there when I had London, dangit! And they were both C sections, so the hospital costs after insurance, jeez...a couple thousand each I''m guessing?

My gramma bought Trapper''s furniture, and London has my old furniture. Most of the other big stuff we got at the shower w/London, and reused w/Trapper.

Bought a TON of used clothes from friends, garage sales etc. I''m borrowing boy clothes from my BFF, and she''s borrowing London''s girl clothes, so we both save lots that way. We''ve never paid for childcare-I don''t work much, and JD works 2nd shift, so mom helps out a few hours a week. I''ve gotten quite a bit of London''s clothes off ebay too. Last year for preschool I got her 17 shirts for $12, and they were just a shade big, so they still fit for this fall too, so I''m quite proud of that bargain! Some of the "play clothes" we get for her, we do neutral stuff, like navy or gray sweats-that way Trapper can wear them when he''s bigger.
 
I'm not sure off-hand and I'm too tired to tally it all up. . .but I have to say that having a big baby shower helped A LOT! Yah!
 
We don't have baby-showers in the UK and it's normal to get clothes or toys as gifts, so we had to pretty much buy everything ourselves.

The only things I bought new other than clothes were a Maxicosi carseat and the Stokke Xplory stroller - I got the two together in a package which cost around $900 - and the baby Leksvik furniture from IKEA.

Otherwise I got everything pretty much on ebay - top buys were a nearly brand-new Bloom highchair for a fraction of the retail price and the Stokke Sleepi cot at a third of retail. I paid about the same for my second-hand Arms Reach mini-Co-Sleeper as you would in the USA, but you can't get them in the UK so I was still happy! I have expensive tastes and research any big product like crazy before I buy - then I will spend a lot of time tracking it down at a bargain price, so I got lots of top of the range items for minimal cost.

I kept a spreadsheet of what I was buying and it came to $3.5k - but that includes everything: bath stuff (Burt's Bees Baby Bee
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), clothes, sheets, blankets and all the stupid extras you find you need etc etc

I'm breast-feeding so it's cost me $300 buying clothes for me - and around $100 for a hand pump, bottles and a microwave steriliser.

Disposible nappies cost me $20 a week.

Being in the UK I have a year's maternity leave most of which is paid so I have no childcare costs.

I have bought quite a few clothes and things since - babies grow FAST and get through a lot of clothes everyday (and I can't resist) - but I buy most of them on ebay as there is loads of new stuff on there for ridiculous prices.

Next year will be way more expensive as I'll have to start buying shoes for her and paying for child-care which is extortionate in London.

I reckon in total I will spend around $6k this year.
 
I'm not rich but I don't think having a child is that expensive..it's as expensive as you make it. Besides formula ($200 every 6 wks from costco), pampers (which I buy the largest box for $40 and last about 3-4 wks), wipes (I pay $12 for costco wipes and they last for 6 wks) which are all needed...the rest you don't have to overdue. Just shop around for a great price on a crib and other things needed. For our first child, we got all we needed (except for nursery furniture) at our baby shower. Didn't have to buy clothes, bouncer, tub, monitor, ergo carrier, ect..all gifts.

I did shop like a mad women with my first (and my 2nd and 3rd) but I did learn to shop wisely for clothing. Never pay retail and ebay is your friend for brand new clothing with tags on it.

Carriages...the $800 carriages are not anything special...but many ppl like to keep up with the Jones's here in the city...so they buy then many that I know regret. You can get a great stroller for $200 or less. You just have to buy wisely and with common sense. I know many ppl with the $800 carriage that can't take it on the bus (I'm in NYC) and they are a pita to fold into a car (and they babies get maybe 2-2.5 yrs out of them before the kid looks like they can't fit).

So are babies expensive? They can be but after the initial set up...the every day care really isn't bad. PPL spend more on jewelry, bags and eating out. GL
 
What a great thread-we''ve been pondering this too!

Interesting to see a range of expenses to get a better idea of what those little ones cost.

As far as the increased health care costs listed-do you all feel like you have good insurance coverage??? I ask because we have no coverage for labor, delivery or post natal care(we are both self employed and you pay a lot and don''t get a lot) . So we are trying to get a good out of pocket guesstimate of what we will likely be paying out of pocket for an uncomplicated birth! Any good site suggestions?
 
I second the Target suggestion for clothes! They actually have a lot of cute clothes, and Carter''s seems to always run a sale or coupons.

It''s harder for me to answer your question b/c our daughter is 14 months old but we''ve only had her since April. Her adoption was expensive- $30,000. She''s not in daycare yet (will start in Sept) but we''ll pay $1200 a month. We also live in the ''burbs where daycare is cheaper. People who have their kids downtown can pay $1600/month, if not more.

We ended up paying all of the major costs ourselves, since we didn''t know when we''d get word we could travel to Korea to pick up Casey. Stroller was $200 (City Mini), crib was around $350, Britax car seat around $300, high chair maybe $50? We bought one of those Ergo carriers and now regret it, b/c we only used it probably less than 5 times and those aren''t cheap ($100). Like I said above, we did have different circumstances than most parents since we adopted our daughter when she was 10.5 months old. She only got to use her ExerSaucer ($100) for a little while before she outgrew it. We bought her walking wings to help hold her up but we probably used that only 5 times or less. We stopped formula at 12 months, though she was only getting a bottle 3 times a day. She just eats whatever we eat, but we''ve definitely started shopping at Whole Foods more now. We didn''t buy any nursery furniture other than the crib- we just used a regular dresser already had. No changing table- we change on the floor. We used a rocking chair we already had, but I could see how a glider would be veerrry nice if you had a newborn who was up all the time.

Toys can be pricey! Especially when they ignore the actual toy and just play with the packaging. If you have a Buy Buy Baby near you, you can use Bed, Bath, and Beyond coupons there. Places like TJ Maxx/Marshalls/Ross are great for toys and books. Since Casey walks now, she has 2 pairs of shoes (Robeez- gifted and Pediped- which I like better). I think they''re around $30 each. They aren''t exactly neutral colors, but she wears them with everything since $30 for shoes seems ridiculous!
 
Date: 7/31/2009 6:34:59 AM
Author: atroop711
I''m not rich but I don''t think having a child is that expensive..it''s as expensive as you make it. Besides formula ($200 every 6 wks from costco), pampers (which I buy the largest box for $40 and last about 3-4 wks), wipes (I pay $12 for costco wipes and they last for 6 wks) which are all needed...the rest you don''t have to overdue. Just shop around for a great price on a crib and other things needed. For our first child, we got all we needed (except for nursery furniture) at our baby shower. Didn''t have to buy clothes, bouncer, tub, monitor, ergo carrier, ect..all gifts.

I did shop like a mad women with my first (and my 2nd and 3rd) but I did learn to shop wisely for clothing. Never pay retail and ebay is your friend for brand new clothing with tags on it.

Carriages...the $800 carriages are not anything special...but many ppl like to keep up with the Jones''s here in the city...so they buy then many that I know regret. You can get a great stroller for $200 or less. You just have to buy wisely and with common sense. I know many ppl with the $800 carriage that can''t take it on the bus (I''m in NYC) and they are a pita to fold into a car (and they babies get maybe 2-2.5 yrs out of them before the kid looks like they can''t fit).

So are babies expensive? They can be but after the initial set up...the every day care really isn''t bad. PPL spend more on jewelry, bags and eating out. GL
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Very, very true.
 
I was lucky and had two baby showers - one on my side and one on DH''s side. We got a lot of great stuff. Here''s some things that I remember:

My mom and MIL bought crib and dresser - $1300.00
Exersaucer (MIL) - $60.00 at Sam''s Club
Jumperoo - about $70.00 on sale at BRU
Formula - $100/month for about 8 months, started weaning at 9 months
Baby food - I don''t really know maybe $40.00 a month
Travel system (friend) - $200.00 or so (Evenflo from BRU)
Glider (friend) - $150.00 from BRU
Daycare (part-time) - $35.00/day x 2 days/week or MIL watches for free
Medical care - $10 copay for doc visits - my son has never been ill (touches wood)
Health insurance - through DH''s work, went up marginally
My medical care - about $1000 out of pocket for prenatal and postpartum care
Other toys - we don''t buy them - others do!

We got tons of clothes for our showers so didn''t really have to buy him much until he was like 6 months old. We also got a lot of baby wash/lotion and haven''t had to buy any yet and our son is now a year old! Also, my MIL does the shopping (we live with her) and will usually pick up a few jars of food and sometimes diapers/wipes so she saves us some money too
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We are really spoiled!

For diapers we like Pampers or Huggies. We buy the biggest box on sale with a coupon and those last a few weeks. We like the Pampers Thick Sensitive wipes and buy the biggest box (usually 6-pack) and that will last about 6-7 weeks. We use wipes at every change.

For clothes I like Target, Kohls and JCPenney for cheap stuff and BRU or The Children''s Place for more pricey things. My son has three pairs of shoes - crocs, sandals and sneakers that he only wears when he''ll be outside moving around. He doesn''t walk yet so no point in spending a ton of money there.

I agree that you can make having a baby cheaper or more expensive by the choices that you make. We shopped around for a competitve daycare price among home-based care providers and choose to buy the pricey diapers but cheap out a bit on the clothes. It also helps and our son is my parents'' first grandchild and my IL''s only grandchild that lives in-state so they buy him so much stuff all the time. We are truly blessed to have so much support!
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To help with formula costs, I''ve bought off Craitslist. I just got $200 worth of formula last weekend for $100. It''s a bit odd meeting people in parking lots and doing "formula deals", but it saves a lot! We also have 2 different friends that work at pedi offices, so they give us some samples when the shipments come in.

For diapers, so far what seems to work cutting corners is using store brand or Luvs diapers during the day, and Huggies at night.

I have pretty good insurance, it was $250 co-pay for the hospital, and $25 per ultrasound (I had 2). It''s costing $50 per month to add him to my health plan. My actual hospital bill was $21k, since I ended up with a c-section, 4 days in the hospital and the baby in NICU for 48 hours. I think a normal delivery is more like 10K (at least in AZ).

My company offers a dependent care spending account, where you can put up to 5K per year aside for daycare pre-tax. This should save about $1400 next year for us.
 
Date: 7/30/2009 8:12:21 PM
Author: puffy
mara the only way really to save on diapers is to buy when they are on sale, depending on the brand you choose. i know costco carries huggies, but not pampers. so if you choose to use huggies, buy at costco, i would say. but we used pampers and just stocked up when they were on sale. also babies r us does a rewards program now if you buy 9 or 10 boxes of pampers (not sure if it''s any brand diapers), you get 1 box free.
we have a garage full of diapers as we, or i didn''t think that B was going to potty train so quickly. that''s how much i stocked up!!
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Yup, with BRU, you get a good idea of when the sales happen, so stock up then.

However, when it comes to stockng up, be careful in those earlier months. I''d say stock up about a month''s supply at a time and KEEP THE RECEIPT. They get so big so fast that if buy 3 boxes of size 1''s, you may find yourself needing size 2''s for your baby before you go through half the stash! Especially if you have a tall kid like mine (I believe she was in 5''s by a year old).
 
thanks fleur...!

TG i was totally thinking the same thing re: diapers. my friend was saying she will just get us lots of newborn diapers and i was like well what if the kid comes out at 10 lbs and it doesnt fit? so yep, receipt for stuff like that for sure. i will have to keep an eye out for sales the last few months and stock up on a few boxes of diff sizes just in case.
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random Q but how fast do the babies go through diapers in the beginning? i saw a box of newborn of 84 diapers and i was thinking that was a lot of diapers, but then i thought well how often do you change them. maybe it'll only last like 2 weeks!
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TDM i love the carters outlet. we have one near us and i love to buy presents for people there. also macys believe it or not does have a lot of baby clothes sales, like 40% off is not uncommon. i get most of my cousin's daughters cute little easter and xmas dresses there. i am also checking out amazon.com for things that are bulk like 5 onesies for $9.99 or similar. i have Prime so i get free 2 day ship which might come in handy when we realize 'holy crap we forgot XYZ' and can order it to arrive in 2 days. haha.
 
Date: 7/31/2009 1:16:48 PM
Author: Mara
thanks fleur...!

TG i was totally thinking the same thing re: diapers. my friend was saying she will just get us lots of newborn diapers and i was like well what if the kid comes out at 10 lbs and it doesnt fit? so yep, receipt for stuff like that for sure. i will have to keep an eye out for sales the last few months and stock up on a few boxes of diff sizes just in case.
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random Q but how fast do the babies go through diapers in the beginning? i saw a box of newborn of 84 diapers and i was thinking that was a lot of diapers, but then i thought well how often do you change them. maybe it''ll only last like 2 weeks!
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TDM i love the carters outlet. we have one near us and i love to buy presents for people there. also macys believe it or not does have a lot of baby clothes sales, like 40% off is not uncommon. i get most of my cousin''s daughters cute little easter and xmas dresses there. i am also checking out amazon.com for things that are bulk like 5 onesies for $9.99 or similar. i have Prime so i get free 2 day ship which might come in handy when we realize ''holy crap we forgot XYZ'' and can order it to arrive in 2 days. haha.
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Hahaha Mara...a box of 84 diapers would have lasted me about 8.4 days. In the beginning I was nuts about changing those suckers. I went through about 10-12 diapers a day. It''s insanity. Mostly because they aren''t sleeping through the night so I felt like I was diaper changing 24/7.

Now Amelia is 16 months old and a 124 count box lasts about 2.5-3 weeks. I change her 6-7 times a day - which goes like this:

- Wake up change.
- The never fails, as soon as I change her in the morning she takes a dump, change.
- Before nap change
- After nap change
- Afternoon pee change
- Bedtime change

And usually there''s an afternoon dump change too - usually happens right after the afternoon pee change.
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My child is up from 6:30 am to 6:30 pm. Babies who have longer days have more diaper changes, I would assume.
 
btw Mara, get the swaddlers sensitive newborn ones to start. They have an indicator strip that will tell you if the diaper is wet or not. Saves time and usually diapers.
 
Date: 7/31/2009 1:16:48 PM
Author: Mara
thanks fleur...!

TG i was totally thinking the same thing re: diapers. my friend was saying she will just get us lots of newborn diapers and i was like well what if the kid comes out at 10 lbs and it doesnt fit? so yep, receipt for stuff like that for sure. i will have to keep an eye out for sales the last few months and stock up on a few boxes of diff sizes just in case.
9.gif


random Q but how fast do the babies go through diapers in the beginning? i saw a box of newborn of 84 diapers and i was thinking that was a lot of diapers, but then i thought well how often do you change them. maybe it''ll only last like 2 weeks!
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TDM i love the carters outlet. we have one near us and i love to buy presents for people there. also macys believe it or not does have a lot of baby clothes sales, like 40% off is not uncommon. i get most of my cousin''s daughters cute little easter and xmas dresses there. i am also checking out amazon.com for things that are bulk like 5 onesies for $9.99 or similar. i have Prime so i get free 2 day ship which might come in handy when we realize ''holy crap we forgot XYZ'' and can order it to arrive in 2 days. haha.
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I dont shop there but I get lots of email coupons from them. Last one was $6 stuff plus a 20% off $50 or more purchase.
 
I had a huge post, but it got eaten. I''ll type it up again, but I will say that we probably spent $4500 on formula alone. We hired a nanny 6 months in, and that was about $9800. Maybe a little more, childcare in the NYC area is expensive. I''m on my iphone, so when I get back to the house I''ll post.
 
HUGE ditto on atroop''s "as expensive as you make it"

I was talking to my SIL and she has already spent nearly $20,000 on her 18 month old.
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Necessities are formula and diapers and clothes. You can get nearly everything second hand (of course this would be a bad idea for the diapers
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)
 
Date: 7/31/2009 1:16:48 PM
Author: Mara

random Q but how fast do the babies go through diapers in the beginning? i saw a box of newborn of 84 diapers and i was thinking that was a lot of diapers, but then i thought well how often do you change them. maybe it''ll only last like 2 weeks!
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Mara - both my boys went through a ton of diapers as newborns (10 per day). Not only do they do their business quite a bit, the diapers always leaked.
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I bought big boxes of diapers at Costco (huggies) and bought their huge boxes of diaper wipes. The wipes still come in handy with my kids being 7 & 8 and get sticky fingers.
 
my sisters diapers leaked too but that was 15 years ago. so i am hoping they are better by now?!?!?! but i figure it also depends on the shape of the kid''s butt. how did you guys decide on pampers vs huggies.
 
Date: 7/31/2009 2:48:45 PM
Author: Mara
my sisters diapers leaked too but that was 15 years ago. so i am hoping they are better by now?!?!?! but i figure it also depends on the shape of the kid''s butt. how did you guys decide on pampers vs huggies.
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For the most part, think the decision is made like this:

Hospitals give out pampers sensitive. Most people stick with that to start. I stuck with it because they worked great and are so soft.

If they cause rashes or leaks, then the trying different brands begin. Also, if you register at BRU, you get a giftbox, often with samples of huggies or whatever so you can try those out.

People also move over to huggies because Costco carries them at a good price, but not pampers. A lot of people have been pleased with Kirkland brand. You pay a premium for Pampers...they have to pay for all those free hospital diapers somehow!!
 
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Mara is Pregnant ??
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Date: 7/31/2009 2:48:45 PM
Author: Mara
my sisters diapers leaked too but that was 15 years ago. so i am hoping they are better by now?!?!?! but i figure it also depends on the shape of the kid's butt. how did you guys decide on pampers vs huggies.
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Maybe pampers are different now, but back then, they had a horrible scented odor to them. Sickened me worse than a dirty diaper!

A few months after each baby was born the leakage problem stopped and huggies did fit both boys' bums better. My babies were decent size 8 lbs 9 oz. and my other son was 7 lbs and ? oz -> around 6 oz? so they had round chubby little rears. Still the pampers didn't work (which had they, I probably would have used them even with the stinkiness).

One thing is I ALWAYS got Huggies coupons which Costco doesn't accept, so sometimes, when on sale, I could get Huggies cheaper at Target.
 
Oh, I want to add that my husband was still in school when my first was born so we didn't have a lot of money. One way we saved was I didn't go crazy decorating a nursery. We had a basinett (which my son refused to sleep in) and a Pack in Play. Mostly we co-slept. . .almost all of the money I spent was on clothes and I bought everything on sale at Old Navy.

The only lavish baby product I owned was a double Peg Perego stroller which was around $300-400 and my MIL bought that for me. It was wonderful. I could collapse it one handed.
 
I also didn''t like the way Pampers smell. Not sure why, but it just bugged me. We got a ton of diapers at the showers, so were able to try out just about all the brands out there. So far Huggies work the best at night, and just about anything else works during the day.

As for sizes, we only used 1 pack of newborn size. He was almost 9 pounds, so they didn''t fit for long! My sitter actually buys diapers on Craigslist. People sell the stash their left with when the baby moves up a size before they use them all.

And congrats Mara!
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Date: 7/30/2009 7:15:24 PM
Author: Mara
for you moms who like to bargain hunt, what sites or blogs do you like to use for not paying retail?
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Mara - some consignment shops have great deals. One by me is super picky about what they take in and nearly everything looks brand new and often times still has tags on items! I usually do shop old navy for all my kids clothes because the shirts have lasted through both boys. Jeans never make it to my second son. Another "investment" brand is Gymboree. Their shirts last FOREVER!!!
 
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