Paraiba???

[ExoticGems]

Recently acquired a Piece of tourmaline rough from a dealer, he states it is copper bearing or pariaba from Nigeria. I wanted to know where I could certify this stone for copper content to verify the claims. Thank you

 

[valeria101]

Paraiba is a place in Brazil.

The rest - is quiet ...

 

[elle_71125]

You would have to send it in to one of the reputable labs (like AGL). They could tell you origin and if it is copper bearing.

 

[chatoyancy]

Paraíba tourmaline comes from Brazil, just as Valeria101 said above. It is a copper bearing tourmaline of the variety elbaite (cuprian elbaite). Another copper bearing tourmaline was discovered in Mozambique. I believe it is now acceptable to call all cuprian elbaite Paraiba, but anyone selling it should be able to tell you the stone’s origin. Mozambique’s material is less expensive. I know Nigeria produces beautiful tourmaline, but I haven’t heard of any cuprian elbaite coming from Nigeria. Maybe someone from the trade can weigh in. Also hopefully, someone can tell you where to test for copper.

 

[chatoyancy]

I should have checked GIA before I replied. Copper bearing tourmaline does come from Nigeria. If you go to the website, you will pictures of copper bearing tourmalines from each country.

 

[normanintheskywithsapphires]

I heard that GIA, AGL & Co. do NOT test rough but only faceted gems. Is that not true?

 

[valeria101]

GIA does uncut stones. I might have only seen two such papers overall ... The others: perhaps just a matter of asking (I do not recall seeing statements that they do not). Demand seems to be a trickle.

___

My post above is rather impolite ... I was thinking that it is almost impossible to respond so that my remark does not add to the unpleasantly speculative assignment of the magic 'Paraiba' label to the respective piece of material; the again ... so does the story go.

 

[SparkliesLuver]

Although AGL is typically preferred for colored stones, they do not test rough. GIA, however, does, so that's where I'd send it. And I've sent GIA rough before. Good luck! Keep us posted on the findings.

 

[lilmosun]

If it costs extra, I wouldn't worry about country of origin...as as coming from Nigeria , as opposed to Brazil, would likely not add to value. Plus once faceted you may need a new report if you decided to sell. It's a nice color and look forward to seeing the results!

 

[T L]

Paraíba tourmaline comes from Brazil, just as Valeria101 said above. It is a copper bearing tourmaline of the variety elbaite (cuprian elbaite). Another copper bearing tourmaline was discovered in Mozambique. I believe it is now acceptable to call all cuprian elbaite Paraiba, but anyone selling it should be able to tell you the stone’s origin. Mozambique’s material is less expensive. I know Nigeria produces beautiful tourmaline, but I haven’t heard of any cuprian elbaite coming from Nigeria. Maybe someone from the trade can weigh in. Also hopefully, someone can tell you where to test for copper.

There were some copper bearing "paraiba type" material that came out of Nigeria, but it was often less saturated than the nice Mozambique material, and definitely less saturated than true Brazilian Paraiba. It reminded me of some Afghan material, which is not copper bearing, but still a pretty blue green shade, just not neon.

Upon cutting, the saturation may substantially change, sometimes for the worse, so do get an experienced lapidary if you do cut it. The brown veining I see in that stone may cause a lot of weight loss upon cutting.

 

[kenny]

Perhaps have it polished so all of the rough's skin is gone, but maximum weight is retained.
IOW it will look random, like the worst-cut gem in the history of the universe, but it will be cut.

Then send it to AGL.

 

[ExoticGems]

Thanks you all for helping out. I think I will have it just polished as if it was a cabochon of some sort and send it to AGL can't wait to see if this one is copper bearing or not

 

[shinyrocks]

Pretty color! Yes, Nigeria did produce (and still produces) copper-bearing tourmaline. In fact, it was found there before it was found in Mozambique. As others have said, AGL can do this for you. I don't think it is cheap though. I might be mistaken, but I think they make you pay more than just "Gem Brief" prices for the analysis, due to the complexity of determining copper content. You might want to give them a call to see what they would charge.

 

[lilmosun]

As others have said, AGL can do this for you. I don't think it is cheap though. I might be mistaken, but I think they make you pay more than just "Gem Brief" prices for the analysis, due to the complexity of determining copper content. You might want to give them a call to see what they would charge.

Yes, a cuprian requires a Prestige report. The few times I've used AGL, they've called me with a preliminary report and then given me the option on whether or not to upgrade to a Prestige Report...not sure if they still do this but maybe you can note this on your order form. They were able to tell me that one of my tourmalines was a Cuprian before I upgraded to a Prestige Report.

 

[gempeaks]

Beautiful color rough. If it is Nigerian origin, it is probably from old stock as most of the best Cuprian Nigerian material came out between 1998-2002 and Mozambique Cuprian was not discovered until 2005. It looks a lot like Afgani mint tourmaline. Given the fact that your analyzing rough and intend to cut it, a small piece can be cut-off that is or will be waste, crushed to powder form, and any decent university chemistry lab can run ICP-AES or AA on it and tell you it contains copper. Alternatively, non-destructive assay can also be done with Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscopy (LIBS) to determine copper content. LIBS is being used more and more in university chemistry labs across the country. Perhaps there is a chemistry professor or graduate student who would do this analysis free of charge. If you go this route, you most definitely want to make sure any analysis performed is truly "non-destructive" and does not alter the gem material in anyway. As previously stated AGL and GIA can do this analysis for you as well for a fee and there is something to be said for having the analysis done by people who routinely use the equipment on gems. As a research scientist who in the past has had access to these tools, it is a lot of fun to learn and be the first person to see the chemical uniqueness of these materials, especially when it comes to gemstones! Best of luck.

 

[Barrett]

Although AGL doesn't typically test rough, Chris Smith did it for me one time, years ago, on a piece of Cuprian tourmaline rough, that piqued his interest enough to let the "no rough testing" thing slide. I wouldn't concern yourself with trying AGL for your rough testing, especially with that piece, unless you happen to know them on a more personal level. Green diamonds they test in the rough, but usually nothing else.

Every piece of "nigerian paraiba rough" I have bought, that was not purple(oyo state) to begin with, has never tested out for me as cuprian. That is my personal experience.
I wish I had pics of the Nigerian blue "cuprian" I bought, that tested out negative, after I wised up and started testing everything. This one below was sold to me as Nigerian Cuprian, but tested negative.

I would be willing to bet your stone is not colored by a copper chromophore. Just a guess on my part though....

 

[arkieb1]

The ring in this photo is a blue untreated supposed to be Nigerian (certified from AGL) copper bearing "paraiba" tourmaline that is supposed to have originated from the first deposit ever found in Nigeria. I say supposed to because that is what I was told when it was purchased and testing has not contradicted that. Since then most of it from Nigeria hasn't been the same quality material according to what I have read.

You will probably need to have at least one face of it faceted so they can test it, I just sent some rough Kornerupine to a lab and they prefer a faceted face to work with apparently.

 

[Barrett]

Laying it down, Arkieb1! Nice Nigerian stone! Woo-ee

 

[gempeaks]

The ring in this photo is a blue untreated supposed to be Nigerian (certified from AGL) copper bearing "paraiba" tourmaline that is supposed to have originated from the first deposit ever found in Nigeria. I say supposed to because that is what I was told when it was purchased and testing has not contradicted that. Since then most of it from Nigeria hasn't been the same quality material according to what I have read.

You will probably need to have at least one face of it faceted so they can test it, I just sent some rough Kornerupine to a lab and they prefer a faceted face to work with apparently.

Beautiful gems! Thanks for sharing!

 

[chatoyancy]

The ring in this photo is a blue untreated supposed to be Nigerian (certified from AGL) copper bearing "paraiba" tourmaline that is supposed to have originated from the first deposit ever found in Nigeria. I say supposed to because that is what I was told when it was purchased and testing has not contradicted that. Since then most of it from Nigeria hasn't been the same quality material according to what I have read.

You will probably need to have at least one face of it faceted so they can test it, I just sent some rough Kornerupine to a lab and they prefer a faceted face to work with apparently.

Copper or no copper, that is one outstanding tourmaline!

 

[arkieb1]

The AGL cert confirmed it's an untreated "paraiba" copper bearing tourmaline but even they from what I understand are not 100% sure of origin.

 

[Alnitak]

The AGL cert confirmed it's an untreated "paraiba" copper bearing tourmaline but even they from what I understand are not 100% sure of origin.

Origin opinions are always that, opinions. Hence you see several major labs issue different origins for stones sometimes.

 

[Gemobsessed]

The ring in this photo is a blue untreated supposed to be Nigerian (certified from AGL) copper bearing "paraiba" tourmaline that is supposed to have originated from the first deposit ever found in Nigeria. I say supposed to because that is what I was told when it was purchased and testing has not contradicted that. Since then most of it from Nigeria hasn't been the same quality material according to what I have read.

You will probably need to have at least one face of it faceted so they can test it, I just sent some rough Kornerupine to a lab and they prefer a faceted face to work with apparently.

This is unreal! Do you have a thread for it?

 

[kenny]

Origin opinions are always that, opinions. Hence you see several major labs issue different origins for stones sometimes.

True.
But ... let's not fall for that all labs are equal trap.

Better labs give grades that are more trustworthy.
Worse labs give grades that are less trustworthy.