Paraiba Tourmalines

[Tanzigrrl]

Hi, All,
I may have an opportunity to purchase a paraiba tourmaline. I'm studying for my GG so I know a little bit about them, but most of my knowledge is "textbook." Does anyone have any good advice as to how to choose one? I'm meeting with a vendor who is a partner of a dear friend of mine.
Thanks in advance

 

[iLander]

I don't think this it's much of an "opportunity", you have an "opportunity" to purchase paraiba, all day, every day, on the internet. This is not a once in a lifetime event. If you think that, then you have a false sense of urgency that makes you buy in a rush, without due consideration.

The association with a dear friend will work down your sales resistance as well. What if you don't buy anything at all? Will you feel guilty that your friend will be angry/disappointed? Better downplay this now with a lot of "just looking", "just curious" remarks. Lower their expectations of your purchasing.

You are walking into it, big time.

Check out pricing for Paraiba from our favorite PS vendors and don't pay more than that. That's my advice.

Here's some paraiba:

http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=view&cat=150

http://www.precisiongem.com/html/html/ParaibaTourmaline.html

I suspect that since you're having a "meeting" the seller is already seeing dollar signs. Please report back afterward so we can all laugh at his (I bet you) outrageous prices.

 

[LD]

Ok, so apologies if I just reiterate what you know but this is what I look for:-

1. Colour colour colour! It has to scream. No compromises.

2. The gemstone must glow and have a neon quality. Good ones look almost synthetic because they glow so bright!

3. Make sure that if you buy one it's conditional on a reputable lab report.

4. Depending on what side of the fence you sit on, you'll either believe that "Paraiba" Tourmaline comes only from Brazil and if that's the case, you need to take an armed guard with your money in a briefcase to get a good specimen nowadays as they're highly sought after. If you consider other localities to also produce "Paraiba" Tourmalines then you may probably pay less - but it's still a toss up as to whether you'll find something that fits 1-3 above.

5. True Paraiba Tourmalines (ones that fit the criteria above) are severely lacking in the market place. If you find a good one, please be prepared that you will find it has an incredibly high price tag.

6. The blue windex variety is the one that is most sought after BUT just slightly behind it is the neon green.

7. Do NOT accept anything other than screaming colour. I've seen hundreds of examples of stones marketed as "Paraiba" where in actual fact they're just very nice Cuprians.

I'm sure there's much much more (but you probably know it anyway). Have fun but take your time. It's taken me many years and viewing alot of ugly frogs before I found my princes!

 

[chrono]

There’s Paraiba tourmaline and there’s Paraiba tourmaline. Some people call any copper bearing tourmaline a Paraiba while others are more discriminate and will only call those that glow to the moon, Paraiba tourmalines. Note that in terms of treatment, there is now fracture filling in addition to the host of other standard treatments and this is not always disclosed. True Paraiba tourmaline is very rare and super expensive (glows so much that it looks fake or diffused), while the regular tourmalines that many try to pass off as Paraibas in order to make the sale and charge more based on a marketing name are very common and cheap. Pricing for true Paraibas range in the thousands (sub carat) to hundreds of thousands, with the plain ones in the mere hundred dollars or so.

 

[Nashville]

Anyone have any good pics of a true high quality Paraiba?

 

[ForteKitty]

what about purple colored paraibas? I think i saw one posted here before but never found it again.

 

[LD]

Nashville - if you do a search I think you'll find a few.

Fortekitty - I have two and I know that TL has some as well. Not sure if anybody else has. They're actually much more difficult to find with a good clarity and strength of colour. To be honest, mine are probably just good Cuprians rather than PTs!

 

[chrono]

Pics from Pala;


A poor quality capture from ICA but you can tell it glows so much that it looks fake.


A old picture from Steve Lembeck

 

[Arcadian]

what about purple colored paraibas? I think i saw one posted here before but never found it again.

The purples are considered copper bearing. I believe only blue and blueish greens will be called paribas by any lab. (I could be wrong though, you know how things change)


BTW, I also have a violet colored one thats 7cts. its got a hyoooge window but I really do loathe to cut it.

-A

 

[chrono]

I’m not sure if you mean violet or purple. The violet ones are rare now because many have been heated to change them into the windex blue variety. I’ve seen many purple cuprians at All That Glitters. I’m not sure if they fall into the cuprian camp or Paraiba camp though as I have not seen them first hand.

 

[ForteKitty]

Fortekitty - I have two and I know that TL has some as well. Not sure if anybody else has. They're actually much more difficult to find with a good clarity and strength of colour. To be honest, mine are probably just good Cuprians rather than PTs!

I wana see pics! Do they look like tanzanites? i only saw one and it thought it was a tanz until i read the description!

 

[ForteKitty]

Chrono, i meant violet. it looked just like a med/light tanzanite, but w/ more... glow.

Arcadian, pics???

 

[Nashville]

Thanks Chrono My searches here never seem to yield good results.

 

[Arcadian]

Chrono, i meant violet. it looked just like a med/light tanzanite, but w/ more... glow.

Arcadian, pics???

here it is. Not its best picture unfortunately, the glow is something I've had issues taking pictures of.

I could have it recut, close the window, but my fear is that a recut would affect the color too much. So, its a stone for my collection only.

I also didn't spend a lot. it was more or less right place/right time type of purchase. TL also has one thats more saturated than what I have (with a better cut too)

-A

 

[chrono]

Nashville,
You are welcome.

ForteKitty,
Per LMHC Information Sheet #6, the only colours that fall under the definition of Paraiba tourmaline are the electric blue, neon blue and violet blue for blues, or green elbaite tourmaline with medium to high saturation. Merely having copper isn’t sufficient. Therefore, the violet, reddish purple and yellowish greens cannot be considered Paraiba tourmaline.

Here is a picture of good quality unheated violet cuprian rough. It has some glow but after heating, turned into that garish Windex blue colour.


I find that the violet curprians do not glow much at all. Here's a pre-heated violet cuprian before heating from Gene of Precision Gems. It also heated into a gorgeous Windex blue.

 

[LD]

Nashville,
You are welcome.

ForteKitty,
Per LMHC Information Sheet #6, the only colours that fall under the definition of Paraiba tourmaline are the electric blue, neon blue and violet blue for blues, or green elbaite tourmaline with medium to high saturation. Merely having copper isn’t sufficient. Therefore, the violet, reddish purple and yellowish greens cannot be considered Paraiba tourmaline. Here is a picture of good quality unheated violet cuprian rough. It has some glow but after heating, turned into that garish Windex blue colour.


I find that the violet curprians do not glow much at all. Here's a pre-heated violet cuprian before heating from Gene of Precision Gems. It also heated into a gorgeous Windex blue.

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure that the purples have now been included? I'm sure I read it somewhere? It was my belief that the gem had to have copper AND show the glow/neon to qualify and this included the purples. Anyway, here's a few photos that include purple (not mine unfortunately):

 

[ForteKitty]

whoa.... pretty...

How much should a violet one (like Gene's) run in the 1.5-1.99ct range?

 

[T L]

Not sure if this was mentioned above, but I do know for a fact that fracture filling of paraiba tourmalines is currently going on, so that's something to consider. I would only prefer ones with low heat treatment (that's how most of them get their color). I'm not sure what the word is on the diffusion methods they've used on paraiba tourmalines, but you might want to look into that as well.

Color is paramount. There are a zillion people trying to sell you a paraiba that is washed out or very aquamarine like. A real paraiba is very neon and glowy. An aqua can't light a candle to a fine paraiba. Therefore, if you think the paraiba could pass for an aqua, than you should pass too.

 

[chrono]

I purchased this one from Gene many years ago so pricing has definitely increased. I had it heated into the Windex variety though because the original colour had too much gray. It's slightly over 2 carats if I recall correctly.


LD,
I'll have to double check to see if the purple and violet varieties are now included; these definitions are always changing.

 

[LD]

Found a picture of one of my purples. This is 1.90ct.

Here are two of my favourite Paraiba Tourmalines.

 

[T L]

Anyone have any good pics of a true high quality Paraiba?

No photo can really convey the color in person as far as I'm concerned. In real life, fine Brazilian paraibas look like neon blue kryptonite (think the Superman movie). The color in the photos above looks too flat and I'm sure they're a zillion times more stunning IRL. The color is simply too vivid to show the glow in a still photograph.

 

[chrono]

TL,
I think I mentioned fracture filling in my earlier post and that it is more often not disclosed. I also know there is copper infusion going on but the results, so far, have not been pretty. Thank goodness! I wonder since it is a tourmaline, if it can be heated, then irradiated like rubellites and pink tourmalines…

Nashville,
Imagine a souped up (colour wise) apatite which can come quite close.

 

[Nashville]

Anyone have any good pics of a true high quality Paraiba?

No photo can really convey the color in person as far as I'm concerned. In real life, fine Brazilian paraibas look like neon blue kryptonite (think the Superman movie). The color in the photos above looks too flat and I'm sure they're a zillion times more stunning IRL. The color is simply too vivid to show the glow in a still photograph.

That's indeed a frustrating thing about photographing gems. A couple of mine (nowhere near fine specimens, but pretty) always look flat and dull on film.

 

[T L]

Just like Burma ruby, fine Colombian emearld, you really need to see a fine paraiba in person. No photograph can coney the true beautiy as the saturation is too intense.

 

[chrono]

LD,
Unfortunately, I have not found any source stating that purples and violets are now considered Paraibas, only this original LMHC Info #6.
http://www.gubelingemlab.ch/PDF/LMHC_InformationSheet_6_Paraiba.pdf

ETA
Aside from the nomenclature, it doesn't matter what anyone calls it as long as you like it and don't overpay for a marketing name.

 

[LD]

Anyone have any good pics of a true high quality Paraiba?

No photo can really convey the color in person as far as I'm concerned. In real life, fine Brazilian paraibas look like neon blue kryptonite (think the Superman movie). The color in the photos above looks too flat and I'm sure they're a zillion times more stunning IRL. The color is simply too vivid to show the glow in a still photograph.

Totally agree. You can take a million photos and they all seem flat! I wish we could load videos on here because they're slightly better but even then, you just don't get the "ooomph" factor that you get in real life! The ones I've posted look fake in real life!

 

[soberguy]

Here is a good picture.

http://harrywinston.com/rings_01.htm

 

[chrono]

Here is a good picture.

http://harrywinston.com/rings_01.htm

This picture looks flat too; I’d bet it glows a ton IRL.

 

[T L]

Anyone have any good pics of a true high quality Paraiba?

No photo can really convey the color in person as far as I'm concerned. In real life, fine Brazilian paraibas look like neon blue kryptonite (think the Superman movie). The color in the photos above looks too flat and I'm sure they're a zillion times more stunning IRL. The color is simply too vivid to show the glow in a still photograph.

Totally agree. You can take a million photos and they all seem flat! I wish we could load videos on here because they're slightly better but even then, you just don't get the "ooomph" factor that you get in real life! The ones I've posted look fake in real life!

There are some youtube videos on paraibas. Again, however, the human eye is much better at discerning color than any camera or video can.

 

[Nashville]

I'm looking forward to attending some trade shows and maybe training my eyes a bit better to pick out the good stuff.