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Paid too Much for "upgrade"

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Genafrgh, Apr 30, 2004.

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  1. Genafrgh
    Rough_Rock

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    by Genafrgh » Apr 30, 2004
    After reading several negative posts about the jeweler we bought my engagement ring from, I decided to do a little investigating on a recent purchase.
    I initially had a D-colored, VS2 .50ct diamond in a platinum solitaire which we had paid $2000 for. We ''upgraded'' at the same jeweler to a 1.00ct H-colored, SI2 diamond in a platinum antique replica setting with .30 ctw in diamonds. They ''gave'' us the $2000 we paid for the first ring, and charged us an additional $3400 for the upgrade; $1000 for the setting & $4,400 for the new diamond total. They appraised the finished ring at $8,000, so it seemed like a great deal at the time, but a little unbelievable. I''ve found out that with my diamonds specs, the diamond cost should have come in at around $3000, if that. Did we spend $1,500 more than we had to for an ''average'', and not ideal, diamond? Opinions please!

    round brilliant
    1.00cts
    measurements: 6.41 - 6.36 x 3.84 mm
    total depth: 60.2%
    table width: 57%
    crown height: 14%
    pavilion depth: 41%
    girdle thickness: slightly thick, faceted
    polish: good
    symmetry: good
    culet: none
    clarity: SI2
    color: H
     
  2. niceice
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
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    by niceice » Apr 30, 2004
    Run a search for a comparable stone here on PS and the answer will be quickly apparent to you... It's better to do that than for one of us to get stoned by your local retailer for revealing the truth... Just return to the front page of Price Scope and run a search for 1.00 to 1.02 carats, SI-2 clarity, H color and all will be apparent.
     
  3. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
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    Apr 3, 2004
    by Dancing Fire » Apr 30, 2004
    genafrgh,
    something doesn't add up right . with that proportion, it should have a bigger diameter than it shows the depth is only 60.2 %. looks like the cutter wanted to make sure the stone ends up 1 ct so he could get a premium. i'm no expert but, the girdle is probably where the extra weight is. just like me( too much weight in the mid section.)
     
  4. Mara
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Mara » Apr 30, 2004
    your stone is definitely hiding weight in that girdle, the average well-cut 1.0c stone should have a diameter of 6.5mm. as you can see, yours is about .10mm shy of that, so it looks maybe more like a .95c or similar.




    if you run a search for 1c H SI2...you will find a huge range of pricing on pscope. the ranges are the CUT quality of the stone. the cheapest may be a horrible cut, the most expensive may be a branded H&A stone. yours may fall somewhere in between. so it's hard to really gauge unless you are comparing apples to apples.




    that said, an unbranded H&A 1c H SI2 can be found online at various reputable vendors for probably around $4,000-4,500. So if you paid an additional $2400 for the stone on top of the $2k original, that's $4400 for the stone itself. In essence it's more than you should have paid for an okay cut stone...BUT you did buy it at a brick and mortar and they build in more overhead and margin than an online dealer would have. So really most people pay more to shop offline. It's the nature of the beast. It's hard to come online after the fact and compare online to offline when you are not comparing apples to apples.




    I don't think you got ripped off, you did pay more for an okay cut stone than you would have online, and too bad you didn't find Pscope earlier, but no use in crying over it now right? [​IMG] Chalk it up to a lesson learned and enjoy your ring!
     
  5. Genafrgh
    Rough_Rock

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    by Genafrgh » May 1, 2004
    Thank you, everyone of you, for getting back to me so quickly. When I did my search on similar diamonds, I felt so foolish. I found pricescope in october 2003, and upgraded my ring in november 2003... I guess I got overzealous once in the presence of all those sparklies because I'm feeling now like I made a rash decision. Don't get me wrong, I love my ring, but it doesn't perform like I would prefer. It looked great out of the setting, but once in it, it's a lot duller. I think it's because the setting doesn't allow for much light to get in. I'm not confident in bringing it back to Barmakians and making a stink (there, I said it, that's the place I went! I haven't read one good thing about them on this site since my purchase!). When the ring was brand new, the prongs were loose and I almost lost the diamond all together from their shoddy workmanship. Do you think that maybe I could have it recut? Would I lose a lot of size if I did that? [​IMG]
     
  6. Genafrgh
    Rough_Rock

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    by Genafrgh » May 1, 2004
    BTW, VTigger86, you're too much! "Too much weight in the midsection" LOL!
     
  7. Genafrgh
    Rough_Rock

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  8. valeria101
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by valeria101 » May 1, 2004


    The only way to know is present a cutter with the 'issue'. However, why pay even more for the thing?

    As far as I hear from you, Barmakian is at least god at making up upgrades. If you too feal that spending more on this same stone makes little sense (you might want to compare the premium on a H-SI ideal cut with what you would end up paying for the end-product), it may appear justified to replace the stone with one prone to HCA's nod at the same jeweler. Not that your comments recommend them, but this might be the one and only way to get back the cost of the stone [​IMG]
     
  9. Magnum
    Shiny_Rock

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    342
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    Mar 26, 2004
    by Magnum » May 1, 2004
    I actually don't think you got too bad a deal. I did a search as Niceice suggested, and the price range I came up with for a diamond similar to yours was $3400 to $5000 (for a mondera stone). This was doing just a basic search with table and depth info, not the cut quality search. You said they charged $4400 for your stone, which at first sounds a little expensive. But look at it this way. They gave you the full $2000 you paid for the first stone, whereas (and somebody correct me if I'm wrong) if you traded that diamond in to another store where you didn't originally buy it, you might have only gotten $1000, if that. It's kind of like the situation you find yourself in at a car dealership. You may be able to get a great deal on your trade-in, but they'll be less likely to come down on the price of the new car. It's just a matter of where you put the money. I'd look at it this way. I'd say you paid $3400, which is a really good price, for a new stone and got $1000 back from your old stone (which is probably what you would have gotten if you tried to trade it in at any other store). As far as the cut of the stone, for a stone with an HCA<2, you'd have to pay around $4500, which is $1000 more than you effectively paid, in my opinion. Whether that's worth it is something for you to decide. The last question I have is the pavilion depth you posted. It seems very shallow and doesn't seem to fit with the other numbers you provided. Are you sure it wasn't 41 degrees? That would actually rate the stone a 0.7 on the HCA with EX/EX/EX/EX. Just a thought. Even if it is 41%, I think you paid a fair price, all things considered.
     
  10. Mara
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Mara » May 1, 2004
    those numbers are off an EGL cert, magnum, so chances are the 41 is not a pavilion angle, but rather a % as keeping with EGL's way of noting %'s on their certs.




    gen..i also agree you should look into upgrading with Bark...knowing what you know now and using Pscope members as a tool to help you seek out a fine diamond from them. you may not be able to get hearts and arrows, but you CAN get a better performer! if you are interested, find out what the policies are, if you'd have to spend more or if you can qualify to do something more equal for a better cut..etc.
     
  11. Magnum
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Magnum » May 1, 2004
    Mara,
    I didn't see it mentioned anywhere that the numbers were off an EGl report, and if they were, you're definitely right. No argument here. I've just had a personal experience with a non-PS vendor when I was looking for a diamond: when I asked him for the pavillion and crown measurements, he gave me one as an angle and the other as a percentage. It was probably the first two numbers he saw. The 41% just didn't look right to me when combined with the other numbers. Anyway, it was just a thought.
     
  12. Mara
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Mara » May 1, 2004
    magnum, i am assuming it's an EGL report since that is how they list their numbers and they also list 'crown height' and 'pavilion depth'. if a sarin had been run, then the angles would have been available. maybe gen can chime in and let us know if it is an egl report!
     
  13. Genafrgh
    Rough_Rock

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    by Genafrgh » May 1, 2004
    The diamond has an EGL cert, Mara is right. I don't have any angles, which I imagine would make the HCA more accurate. I wonder if the store would have access to that after a purchase, or is there some formula that I can use to figure them out?
    Talking about this with all of you, whom I assume have more experience than me, makes me feel better about my stone. I guess it's not as bad as it could have been had I purchased it at a mall chain store. I'm uncertain now, though, if I should go back to them for a wedding band. I haven't yet found a band to match this ring.
     
  14. phoenixgirl
    Ideal_Rock

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    by phoenixgirl » May 1, 2004
    1.00 H SI2 EGL certed stones are going for between $2737 and $3927 on PS right now. If indeed your stone is EGL certed, it sounds like they got your old your ring for very little in the deal. GIA certed stones command a higher price, which is why the first price range was higher.

    EGL stones:

    Stone 1

    Stone 2

    Stone 3

    Stone 4

    But I guess that assuming that your setting is really worth $1K and the stone would sell for $4K on PS, then you only paid $400 over that, which is normal for a B&M store. It just all depends on the cut quality of your stone and the quality of the setting.
     
  15. Genafrgh
    Rough_Rock

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    by Genafrgh » May 1, 2004
    My original diamond was GIA cert, I'm not sure about the cut, but I don't think that it compared to the one I have now. It was very bright & white, but that was about it & I love the fire in a diamond. I have seen my setting on 2 other sites, and it's selling for around the $1,000 mark. (I've tried to post pic's, but it's not working for some reason) I just feel very cheated that it didn't rate higher on the cut. I was naive in not asking to see the certificate BEFORE I fell in love with it. Again, I think that the setting hides some of it's true beauty, and I wish someone at the store would have mentioned that because I would have rethought things. The man who sold it to us said that they don't work on commission (something I've heard from every single person I've spoke to at that store), but they must get some sort of reward because otherwise, why would they push so hard to get you to make a decision right then & there?

    Here's the setting on the sites I mentioned:

    http://www.faycullen.com/engagementringscloseup2.php?id=1789

    http://www.washingtondiamond.com/store/details.asp?itemid=360112
     
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