Paging Coatimundi and Pandora II

[oldmancoyote]

Lookie here...

http://www.absolutetitanium.com/atd-titania.html

 

[onvacation]

Isn''t this the site from https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/active-duty-military-service-rings-with-a-hidden-black-diamond.100551/ ???

 

[oldmancoyote]

...I''ll be... yes, it is. I was actually searching a source of cut synthetic rutile, since Coati and Pandora were looking for it, and they are the only one I found. Well spotted!

 

[Pandora II]

Thanks! I wonder if they sell the loose stones.

It''s true that they have a rather nasty yellow tinge to them, but I still NEED one for my collection.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Honestly - no idea, but worth a call. The only other synthetic rutile supplier I found is basically an industrial supplier, rather than a gem cutter...

Re: the yellowish tinge, you can always pretend it's a light yellow diamond

(never mind the tint - look at the dispersion)

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 12/13/2008 5:43:59 AM
Author: oldmancoyote
Honestly - no idea, but worth a call. The only other synthetic rutile supplier I found is basically an industrial supplier, rather than a gem cutter...

Re: the yellowish tinge, you can always pretend it''s a light yellow diamond

(never mind the tint - look at the dispersion)

I don''t know if you have ever seen one IRL, but it''s not a tint like in a warmer diamond (which I rather like) - it''s a nasty colour cast. The stones don''t look ''real'' - I would never want to wear one (except as some amazing accessory to a ''come as a creature from outer space'' costume party

) - but they are just the sparkliest things on earth... (and probably off earth as well).

 

[oldmancoyote]

I haven't. I have seen strontium titanate - which in photos seems quite similar to rutile - and it seems covered in rainbows and it can have a yellowish tinge too, but it's reasonably close to a diamond's body colour. You are right about the "outer space" thing; very suitable for Star Trek first series!

By the way - I have just noticed: Jeff Graham (www.faceters.com) also sells rutile, though at the moment he's out of stock!

 

[coatimundi_org]

Thanks so much oldmancoyote!

haha about the yellow tinge! I don''t mind it, because of the wild dispersion--those things never stop moving!

I want one for my gem box--will make the less dispersive gems jealous!

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 12/13/2008 2:37:29 PM
Author: oldmancoyote
I haven''t. I have seen strontium titanate - which in photos seems quite similar to rutile - and it seems covered in rainbows and it can have a yellowish tinge too, but it''s reasonably close to a diamond''s body colour. You are right about the ''outer space'' thing; very suitable for Star Trek first series!


By the way - I have just noticed: Jeff Graham (www.faceters.com) also sells rutile, though at the moment he''s out of stock!

I emailed him about them awhile ago, and got the same response.

In class we''d have to separate gems in groups (placed in fishing tackle wheels)--colorless stone wheels were fun, because you could always pick out the synthetic rutile and strontium titanate. Strontium titanate is often colorless, but there is nothing like synthetic rutile--it''s crazy--haha!

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 12/13/2008 2:46:59 PM
Author: coatimundi

I emailed him about them awhile ago, and got the same response.

In class we''d have to separate gems in groups (placed in fishing tackle wheels)--colorless stone wheels were fun, because you could always pick out the synthetic rutile and strontium titanate. Strontium titanate is often colorless, but there is nothing like synthetic rutile--it''s crazy--haha!

It was a stone my tutor gave me to ID (loupe & penlight only). I didn''t know where to start - I was pretty sure that it wasn''t strontium titanite, but was totally stumped. It doesn''t often crop up in many lists of dispersive gemstones.

He kept saying that I would have heard of a different form of the mineral. Grrrrr.

I''m still trying to find something suitable to pay him back with... I got him with a weird coloured spinel that time, but I need something super-hard next time. I''ve been perusing some of the rarities, but they are either out of my price-range, poor examples or whilst rare, identifiable fairly easily.

I pondered kyanite for a while...

Any thoughts? Must not be singly refractive as that makes it too easy... (although a garnet with good anomalous double refraction could be a possibility

)

 

[Harriet]

Sorry to interrupt. P, did you get my message about the FGA?

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 12/13/2008 5:32:54 PM
Author: Pandora II

Date: 12/13/2008 2:46:59 PM

Author: coatimundi


I emailed him about them awhile ago, and got the same response.


In class we'd have to separate gems in groups (placed in fishing tackle wheels)--colorless stone wheels were fun, because you could always pick out the synthetic rutile and strontium titanate. Strontium titanate is often colorless, but there is nothing like synthetic rutile--it's crazy--haha!

It was a stone my tutor gave me to ID (loupe & penlight only). I didn't know where to start - I was pretty sure that it wasn't strontium titanite, but was totally stumped. It doesn't often crop up in many lists of dispersive gemstones.


He kept saying that I would have heard of a different form of the mineral. Grrrrr.


I'm still trying to find something suitable to pay him back with... I got him with a weird coloured spinel that time, but I need something super-hard next time. I've been perusing some of the rarities, but they are either out of my price-range, poor examples or whilst rare, identifiable fairly easily.


I pondered kyanite for a while...


Any thoughts? Must not be singly refractive as that makes it too easy... (although a garnet with good anomalous double refraction could be a possibility

)

heh heh

Give him a synthetic sapphire(colorless) and strontium titanate doublet.

or

Single crystal rhodochrosite--faceted, clean and sharp.

or

Single crystal rhodonite

or dyed Calcite--dyed to look like Lapis.

eta: low property zircon

kyanite is a great idea too.

 

[Pandora II]

LOL, rhodocrosite is on the list - sadly I like the really good ones, but I definitely think it's a contender.

Getting my paws on doublets is a tricky one...

Harriet, where did you send the message? Can't find it in my email...

 

[Harriet]

I''ll send you another one. I''m considering the FGA, but I can''t figure out if I can do it by correspondence.

 

[oldmancoyote]

May be a little expensive, but Lembeck Gems has a lovely cuprite. If it wasn''t so soft, I''d have bought it for a pendant!

 

[coatimundi_org]

Cuprite--now that would be tricky--very cool idea.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 12/15/2008 8:29:15 PM
Author: coatimundi
Cuprite--now that would be tricky--very cool idea.

It would be if he didn't already have one...

I have some nice crystals in matrix that I collected in Cornwall (I spent most summers going over the mine dumps down there) - all fairly tiny and fairly ugly looking.

That is a gorgeous piece though - geez I need to win the lottery soon...

 

[Pandora II]

Here''s a picture of the stone in question...

Shame it''s only a 3.5-4 on the Mohs - otherwise this material would make an amazing e-ring...

 

[coatimundi_org]

What a stunning example!
Yes, that would make an amazing and rare e-ring--drat that softness.
Gems are always a game of favorite properties. This one has the RI--if only it had the hardness--feel the same about sphalerite.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Do you think it could be set in some way - not in a ring or bracelet, but I'm still keen on my pendant idea? I doubt it could be put in a bezel, but perhaps with thin prongs? I'm tempted, and Christmas is getting close...

 

[Pandora II]

I''m not suprised that you are keen - that is a sizeable example and frankly a great price for the stone. If I had the cash sitting around I''d be tempted too.

IMHO, a bezel is out of the question, but I have seen sphalerite that has been prong set. Sphalerite has 6 directions of perfect cleavage whereas cuprite has only one direction of imperfect cleavage. So, theoretically you could try - but, would you a) find a setter prepared to do it and b) be prepared to risk breaking such a very rare stone?

For me, the biggest problem would be that you would scratch the stone everytime you tried to clean it. I''d probably be worried about even taking the lid off it''s box!

I always think that Cuprite is a great one for exam questions as an example of a gemstone of the cubic system... not the usual diamond/spinel/garnet that people tend to come up with.

 

[elmo]

This may be a dumb question but it''s pretty common I thought to put an epoxy or synthetic spinel cap on soft gems like ammonite, so I wonder if it would be appropriate and acceptable for that cuprite, especially if the process was reversible.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 12/16/2008 9:02:28 PM
Author: elmo
This may be a dumb question but it''s pretty common I thought to put an epoxy or synthetic spinel cap on soft gems like ammonite, so I wonder if it would be appropriate and acceptable for that cuprite, especially if the process was reversible.

To be honest, I don''t know... interesting thought though.

I would hazard a guess that it would affect the dispersion significantly due to the difference in RI (2.85 for cuprite (higher than diamond - 2.417) versus 1.712 for Spinel) and subsequent effect on light ray passing through and off the stone. Cuprite also has a metallic/adamantine lustre that might well be lost with this process - with ammolite you are buying for the play of colour that would not be so affected (think opal doublets/triplets).

Maybe someone else will have an answer.

 

[elmo]

That makes sense Pandora. It''s a wacky thought but I wonder about something like a "fish bowl" or clear locket where the two materials don''t make significant intimate contact. But probably no way from keeping that from being really unattractive

. Nice collection piece I guess.

 

[coatimundi_org]

My instructor told me about a sphalerite pendant that was a cage of sorts. It''s hard to describe, but the stone was suspended within gold wire, so it couldn''t be knocked--that cleavage issue.

Maybe something like that could work for cuprite.