Paging appraisers: Value of old cut diamonds??

[Skippy123]

Since lately it seems like so many people are in the market for Old Stones, what is a fair price to pay? do we use ebay as a tool? the PS search engine up top as a tool w/a percet off retail or what is a good marker???

Should auction houses and the preloved section be comparable to ebay pricing? I guess in short, "how do we value second hand diamonds?"

Just curious! Thanks!!

 

[bright ice]

Skippy, thanks for asking this as I would like to know too.

I would really love to own one but it's hard to gauge how to judge in reference to pricing because they seem to be priced quite high.

 

[Rockdiamond]

That's a great question.
There's so much to consider, plus the age of the diamond can impact how we evaluate it.
For example, abrasions, and or chips.
In some cases, repair will change the personality of the stone to such a great degree, a total recut makes sense.
Other times it makes sense to do a slight repair that won't change the appearance.
But this aspect clearly affects the value of the stone, as it is.

Without a doubt, higher colored older stones are rare as chicken's teeth for the reason that they've virtually all been recut to modern.

 

[Circe]

As I recall, just recently Rappaport started pricing OECs like rounds - formally, that is - and OMCs like pears. I found that to be really telling as to the state of the market.

 

[Skippy123]

That's a great question.


Without a doubt, higher colored older stones are rare as chicken's teeth for the reason that they've virtually all been recut to modern.

agh, that is awful they recut them!!! Or at least that is how I feel! thanks for your thoughts!!

 

[Skippy123]

Skippy, thanks for asking this as I would like to know too.

I would really love to own one but it's hard to gauge how to judge in reference to pricing because they seem to be priced quite high.

I hope the appraisers chime in too! thanks

 

[Skippy123]

As I recall, just recently Rappaport started pricing OECs like rounds - formally, that is - and OMCs like pears. I found that to be really telling as to the state of the market.

that is what I heard too! thanks for the info Circe!

 

[denverappraiser]

Ebay comps are pretty bad but they’re free and convenient so I understand why people tend to start there. The problem is that, #1, the descriptions are entirely seller written, even when they claim to be referencing some 3rd party 'independent' appraiser. You don’t know if it’s accurate or even if the item exists at all. #2, you don’t know if the deal was an anomaly (was the buyer a fool or alternatively, did they just get lucky? Did they pay? Did they actually get the goods?). Unfortunately, the ‘completed’ data times out and vanishes rather quickly so even if you take them with a grain of salt you don’t usually have that many to work with. IF you’re going to use ebay, at completed auctions under the 'advanced search' link and look for ones that actually resulted in a sale. Best are where a feedback has been left but you don’t usually have this much choice. Take what you can get. Another decent source on ebay is looking in the ebay stores of the big time dealers who, from their feedback, seem to be making sales and seem to have happy customers. Asking prices are not exactly the same as transaction prices but it’s a decent place to start and there's usually more to choose from. Take all ebay comps with a grain of salt unless they are your own or someone you know.

You can often find online comps for OEC’s and OMC’s at some of the favorite secondary market sites like diamondbistro, Topazery, Ruby Lane, IDNID or JBEG among others. That’ll get you how much a particular dealer is asking for something similar and then you get to modify that to fit your case. Is the one you’re looking at better, worse or indifferent? In what way(s)? Does the dealer have better or worse terms and conditions than the source you’re considering? Is what you’re looking at even available elsewhere?

Rapaport is irrelevant.

If you find comps, you can usually use the same sorts of modifiers as with modern stones. For example: If your comp is an H and the stone you're considering is an F, look up otherwise similar modern stones in the same weight/clarity sort of range and see how much of a premium that color bump is going for. Apply that same premium to your comp. As with modern stones, size is a big deal so pay careful attention if the subject stone is a 1.02 and the comp is a 0.90 for example (or visa versa) and the premium for color is not the same with I2's as it is with VVS's. Again, be careful. Lower colors are often a problem. It's hard to find an N colored modern stone so it's hard to decide the difference between an L and an N but they're fairly common in older goods. In the end it's just a matter of doing some legwork and deciding what attributes are important to you. How much should you pay? As little as possible. The seller is going to try to get as much as possible. You get to compromise and often that compromise has as much to do with you (and them) as it does the goods.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

I've learned over many years and by being in contact with dealers who specialize in old cuts
that you should expect (usually) that a "mounted" diamond is most likely darker than it appears.
Easy for a novice and even some jewelers to make a color grading error if the diamond is mounted.

Each OMC or OEC should be judged on its own merits without standard conformity to a specific "range"
or "chart." So values are also linked to brilliance, shape (outline), condition of girdle (chips, nicks, etc) and other factors beyond the 4 C's. Always super wise to get a money back guarantee upon visual inspection by a qualified jeweler or appraiser.

Just my opinion.

 

[Skippy123]

Neil, that makes a lot of sense not to use ebay like you say since some appraisals are from appraisers we don't know or are inflated, etc. Thank you for taking the time to respond!! I had noticed people using ebay and I am glad you touched on that!

Jeff, thank you also for your thoughts!

 

[denverappraiser]

Neil, that makes a lot of sense not to use ebay like you say since some appraisals are from appraisers we don't know or are inflated, etc. Thank you for taking the time to respond!! I had noticed people using ebay and I am glad you touched on that!

Jeff, thank you also for your thoughts!

It's not just appraisers you don't know. I have seen 'appraisals' copied on ebay that were supposedly written BY ME that I've never seen before! It's not just Tiffany's name that gets counterfeited. Buyer beware. If you aren't the client, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[SparklyOEC]

This is all very interesting. Just curious, are these the only factors that affect their value, or demand for them also? Like Skippy said, it seems the demand for them has increased quite alot recently.

 

[denverappraiser]

This is all very interesting. Just curious, are these the only factors that affect their value, or demand for them also? Like Skippy said, it seems the demand for them has increased quite alot recently.

Demand is the ONLY thing that drives value. The tricky part is deciding what are the attributes that make one thing more in demand than another. Whiter stones, for example, are not inherently ‘better’ than yellower ones. What makes them cost more is demand. There are a fair number of stones out there that are significantly more rare than diamonds and that are available for a fraction of the price and the difference is demand. Demand is a fickle thing. OEC’s are up, marquise are down. Pears have been in the tank for years but they seem to be coming back. Spready diamonds that face up bigger than they weigh used to trade for a premium, now they trade as recut jobs. None of these things are inherent to the stones. It’s fashion. OEC’s are no prettier now than they were 20 years ago when they were impossible to sell, and those marquises are just as lovely now as they were when they were first cut. The stones are the same. It’s the customers that changed.

I agree that the demand for OEC’s seems to be on the rise but part of what you are seeing may be just a less efficient market. People who are looking for a modern round brilliant, 1.0-1.1/SI1/G can easily find thousands of well documented stones to choose from. Shopping quickly becomes based on non-gemological things like store service, prices, convenience, etc. That same set of specs on an OEC is actually a pretty difficult call. You may find one if you look hard or you get lucky, but you’ll be hard pressed to find a half a dozen to shop against one another. If you do, it’s likely the issue will be grading reliability and documentation as well as availability. Grading routinely comes from unreliable sources, dealers tend to have only one item in stock and they are hard pressed to order in something else to meet your specs. It’s a very different shopping process.