Oval Diamond Help Need - Reading GCAL 8X Reports

[geoffraffe]

Hello everyone! Im new to this forum, and want to say I greatly appreciate everyones contributions to this site as I go down the rabbit hole to find the perfect oval diamond for an engagement ring. I've been doing a bunch of research and came across the GCAL 8X Certification, which seem to to be so much more in-depth than the other reports from GIA/IGI/etc.

I've compiled a list of diamonds that I'm considering, and I'd love to hear your feedback! I am hoping to find the best performing diamond with the least amount of bowtie possible.

These are all GCAL 8X Certified oval lab diamonds. The report has some light-performance images/videos in it.

Here is the scale for their imaging:

Optical Brilliance - White (light return), Grey (weaker light return), Blue (leakage)

Optical Symmetry - Green (light return), Red (light return), Blue (weaker light return), Black (leakage)

Diamond 1
Diamond 2 - slightly concerned with this one having a table % > depth %
Diamond 3
Diamond 4

I appreciate your help in advance! Please let me know if any additional info is needed.

 

[Kim N]

Tagging Karl_K for input.

 

[Karl_K]

Hello everyone! Im new to this forum, and want to say I greatly appreciate everyones contributions to this site as I go down the rabbit hole to find the perfect oval diamond for an engagement ring. I've been doing a bunch of research and came across the GCAL 8X Certification, which seem to to be so much more in-depth than the other reports from GIA/IGI/etc.

I've compiled a list of diamonds that I'm considering, and I'd love to hear your feedback! I am hoping to find the best performing diamond with the least amount of bowtie possible.

These are all GCAL 8X Certified oval lab diamonds. The report has some light-performance images/videos in it.

Here is the scale for their imaging:

Optical Brilliance - White (light return), Grey (weaker light return), Blue (leakage)

Optical Brilliance - White (light return), Grey (minor leakage), Blue (leakage)

Optical Symmetry - Green (light return), Red (light return), Blue (weaker light return), Black (leakage)

edit: the double black, makes ASET comparisons not as simple as it seems. White is leakage.

 

[geoffraffe]

Optical Brilliance - White (light return), Grey (minor leakage), Blue (leakage)



edit: the double black, makes ASET comparisons not as simple as it seems. White is leakage.

Hi Karl,

 

[Karl_K]

1 has a lot of mush* right off of center.
2 less mush
3 mushy
4 some mush
They were most likely all cut by the same cutter to a similar pattern.
Almost all the return they have is blue which is green in ASET.
They would fail an ASET test.

I have seen a lot worse so they are not that bad but they are not great either.

*Looks like mushy oatmeal, bunch of mixed dark and light areas with the darker areas being dominate. It other words not very efficient at returning light.

 

[geoffraffe]

Hi Karl,

Thanks for the info. I understand the images are hard to compare, I have been staring at them trying to discern the differences. Is there any way to reliably read these reports to figure out which diamond has the least bowtie?

 

[Karl_K]

Hi Karl,

Thanks for the info. I understand the images are hard to compare, I have been staring at them trying to discern the differences. Is there any way to reliably read these reports to figure out which diamond has the least bowtie?

none of them is going to have a huge bow tie.
In the regular pic look for darkness in the center, and black near the center in the Optical Symmetry image.

 

[geoffraffe]

Hi Karl,

Thank you for taking a look at them! Sounds like I will be on the hunt again. Slightly disappointed because I thought GCAL had very strict grading standards for their 8x diamonds.


I appreciate you!

 

[Karl_K]

Hi Karl,

Thank you for taking a look at them! Sounds like I will be on the hunt again. Slightly disappointed because I thought GCAL had very strict grading standards for their 8x diamonds.


I appreciate you!

I haven't done any deep research on their fancy grading but these did not impress me.
It was interesting however.

Your welcome.
Lately I haven't been here as much so feel free to ping me by typing: @Karl_K if you have a question.

 

[geoffraffe]

@Karl_K

Another quick question, trying to learn as much as possible, so I can learn to read these better without help! I pulled the following ASET images from beyond4cs. They describe the following ovals as having exceptional performance (see attached)

If the blue on the GCAL 8x images is weaker light return, and the green on ASET is weaker light return, why are these diamonds considered excellent with scattered green and the ones I sent with almost solid blue all around considered not great?

 

[Karl_K]

@Karl_K

Another quick question, trying to learn as much as possible, so I can learn to read these better without help! I pulled the following ASET images from beyond4cs. They describe the following ovals as having exceptional performance (see attached)

If the blue on the GCAL 8x images is weaker light return, and the green on ASET is weaker light return, why are these diamonds considered excellent with scattered green and the ones I sent with almost solid blue all around considered not great?

I do not agree with the conclusion that those are excellent.
With fancies there is a lot of disagreement.
I don't buy into that ASET red is always better in the real world but a stone with little to none is not going to be great.

 

[DejaWiz]

Hello and welcome to PriceScope, geoffraffe!
All of these GCAL 8X ovals appear to be around the $1200-1300 mark.
Please have a look at the oval lab in-house inventory at Whiteflash...they should be able to provide direct comparison and ASET images.

Oval Cut Lab Diamonds – Highest Quality Cut | Whiteflash

Discover the allure of our oval cut lab diamonds. Carefully crafted for exquisite beauty, our diamonds promise exceptional quality and remarkable value.

www.whiteflash.com

 

[geoffraffe]

Hello and welcome to PriceScope, geoffraffe!
All of these GCAL 8X ovals appear to be around the $1200-1300 mark.
Please have a look at the oval lab in-house inventory at Whiteflash...they should be able to provide direct comparison and ASET images.

Oval Cut Lab Diamonds – Highest Quality Cut | Whiteflash

Discover the allure of our oval cut lab diamonds. Carefully crafted for exquisite beauty, our diamonds promise exceptional quality and remarkable value.

www.whiteflash.com

Thanks! I'll take a look. Are you suggesting the $1200-$1300 mark is too little or too much for a LGD around 1-1.25 carats? I am typically looking in the D-E-F color range and VVS2 and up.

 

[DejaWiz]

Thanks! I'll take a look. Are you suggesting the $1200-$1300 mark is too little or too much for a LGD around 1-1.25 carats? I am typically looking in the D-E-F color range and VVS2 and up.

No, not at all too much...as long as the diamond is fully vetted at the seller level like Whiteflash provides to their customers.

 

[geoffraffe]

No, not at all too much...as long as the diamond is fully vetted at the seller level like Whiteflash provides to their customers.

Got it! Do you know of any other online sellers that fully vet their diamonds?

Taking a look at white flash now.

 

[DejaWiz]

Got it! Do you know of any other online sellers that fully vet their diamonds?

Taking a look at white flash now.

Unsure about others in regards to human grown ovals

 

[geoffraffe]

@Karl_K thoughts on these? I have heard good things about Brian Gavin Diamonds on this forum so I decided to check them out.

Diamond 1
Diamond 2
Diamond 3

Curious to know your thoughts on Diamond 1 being more expensive than Diamond 2/3 even though 2/3 have higher carat & color grades.

 

[tyty333]

These are 4 main ovals...the ones you posted in your first post were 8 mains (offset). In general* you'll usually get a little
better light return in a 4 main (but not always).

I like them in this order. They all have the same faceting patterns so you have to look for small nuances. I find looking at the
"Sparkle" videos help me the most. More goes into the pricing than just carat weight (stuff on the back end like the cost of the
crystal and prices at the time it was purchased).

1.04
1.18
1.16

Edit...the reason I placed them in that order mostly has to do with the darkness that shows up in the middle and how long it lasts.

 

[ariel144]

2.06ct H VS1 August Vintage Oval Private Reserve Lab Grown Diamond

ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS NEW HERITAGE OVAL!!! Icy white G, super clean VS1 with optics that are just yummy chunky reflections of light that is *impossible* to get in a typical oval! We promise no regrets. Diamond Details Measurements 8.92 x 6.47 x 5.37mm Cut Id Polish Ex Symmetry Ex...

www.distinctivegem.com

This is a Distinctive Gem chunky faceted oval and one can see how the majority of reflections are red all the way to the ends of the entire stone, but is the "blue" bad?

Red = Light return from above
Green = Light return from the horizon or from the sides
White/black = leakage
Blue = Light return from above [that can flash on and off or NOT.]

I will explain how it can possibly appear as "bad" as in a "black bow tie" effect in fancy cuts, oval, cushions, pears and marquise.

"Blue"....the most misunderstood color in an ASET image in my personal experience.

For those old time PSr's who remember the "beginnings" of ASET images being discussed and seen on PS, IMO, began when Jonathan started cutting the August Vintage Rounds [AVR]..."new" OEC's; which he patented.

ALL AVR's had IDEAL light return as graded by AGS. Some of those flowery faceted AVR/OEC's had BLUE petals under the table and some had RED petals as seen on ASETS recorded in the AGS reports. But all were proven to have IDEAL LIGHT RETURN by AGS, the ONLY grading service that actually will measure and rate the light return of a diamond as "IDEAL" at the time.

Eventually Jon weeded out the AVR's with the ASETS where the petals showed up BLUE. Probably because the blue became misunderstood as "obstruction". And if those facets do not turn on and off it WILL be bad and always cause a dark spot on your diamond that will always be seen by your eyes. Not good.

I have only just recently learned from experience how BLUE on an ASET is NOT necessarily "bad", when I purchased an elongated antique cushion from Adiamor this month. You can go to the thread I started under "Opinions please" where I only posted the video and cert. on this stone. The dark facets at the top and bottom of the stone's pavilion as seen in the video "could be obstruction" as Karl stated.

But IN PERSON and from the ASET I captured of my cushion those facets are always showing white reflections and flashing fire constantly as are those chunky facets across the belly...always reflecting light from ABOVE! As I turn the stone RARELY do those top chunky facets turn dark, as seen in the video. And also on the ASET they can be BLUE/shaded red or only RED! Shock! This proves they are reflecting light from above. Even the tiny sliver facets as seen in the ASET as blue, I can see flashing white and fire at times in my diamond.

I'm not going to post the ASET of my cushion here, so I don't thread jack this discussion on the OP's search for a great modern cut oval which can be seen in Brian Gavins ovals with ASETS that Karl posted.

See the ASET on my avatar of my earth mined marquise and the belly is RED when I look at the stone N/S but when I turn it E/W that belly goes light to dark and dark to light as I move the stone....is that a "bow tie"??? because it only shows sometimes? NO it is not considered a bow tie. It has chunky faceting which was exactly what I was looking for. This is how "blue" can possibly be "bad" if those facets do not turn on and off. You will see a black bow tie on your diamond a majority of the time.

I've noticed this on other sites where they say there is no bow tie on a fancy cut because those blue facets will constantly turn on and off as the stone moves on your hand. But at times they will flash dark for a second as the stone moves.

That is why fancy cuts need an ASET and also need to be seen with your eyes. As even the ASETs can fool you.

I just posted Jon's educational video covering ASETS on LGD's, of OEC's and Elongated Antique Cushions. He didn't cover ovals though. But you can view some modern ovals on his website, some with ASETS and some not. Thus "blue" on ASETS can be tricky.

Someone in this thread posted that blue was "leakage", but that is not correct. Only the black in Brian Gavin's ASETS with the black background is leakage. If the ASET has a white background, then leakage will show as "white".

Thanks to the pioneers like BGD, DG and Victor Canera, who began posting ASETS to prove their diamonds performance. Now others are like WF are providing them as well. GCal is hit or miss as to a stone's performance. Some of the modern cushion cuts do not have great ASETS. But I'm not very familiar with the GCal certs. for fancy cuts.

Hope my experience is helpful to others trying to understand ASET images...or maybe just caused more confusion for some.

I suggest for anyone loving fancy cuts that they buy an ASET and Ideal scope. "Cut Nut", Garry H. posted a YT video on how to use it when you receive your stone. He's hilarious!

 

[ariel144]

What the heck is "LIGHT BLUE" in a GCAL "ASET". Did they create their own "ASET" SCOPE"???? Just to confuse people?

When I look at ovals and pears I have to see them N/S to see if I can see the star facets going the whole length of the table. This helps to eliminate the mush under the table. I remember a well cut oval DejaWiz found for an OP a while back. And you could clearly see those star facets filling the table. I think a smaller table helps to produce that.

 

[geoffraffe]

These are 4 main ovals...the ones you posted in your first post were 8 mains (offset). In general* you'll usually get a little
better light return in a 4 main (but not always).

I like them in this order. They all have the same faceting patterns so you have to look for small nuances. I find looking at the
"Sparkle" videos help me the most. More goes into the pricing than just carat weight (stuff on the back end like the cost of the
crystal and prices at the time it was purchased).

1.04
1.18
1.16

Edit...the reason I placed them in that order mostly has to do with the darkness that shows up in the middle and how long it lasts.

I appreciate your input! Do you know if a bowtie in ASET will show up in the color black or blue?

2.06ct H VS1 August Vintage Oval Private Reserve Lab Grown Diamond

ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS NEW HERITAGE OVAL!!! Icy white G, super clean VS1 with optics that are just yummy chunky reflections of light that is *impossible* to get in a typical oval! We promise no regrets. Diamond Details Measurements 8.92 x 6.47 x 5.37mm Cut Id Polish Ex Symmetry Ex...

www.distinctivegem.com

This is a Distinctive Gem chunky faceted oval and one can see how the majority of reflections are red all the way to the ends of the entire stone, but is the "blue" bad?

Red = Light return from above
Green = Light return from the horizon or from the sides
White/black = leakage
Blue = Light return from above [that can flash on and off or NOT.]

I will explain how it can possibly appear as "bad" as in a "black bow tie" effect in fancy cuts, oval, cushions, pears and marquise.

"Blue"....the most misunderstood color in an ASET image in my personal experience.

For those old time PSr's who remember the "beginnings" of ASET images being discussed and seen on PS, IMO, began when Jonathan started cutting the August Vintage Rounds [AVR]..."new" OEC's; which he patented.

ALL AVR's had IDEAL light return as graded by AGS. Some of those flowery faceted AVR/OEC's had BLUE petals under the table and some had RED petals as seen on ASETS recorded in the AGS reports. But all were proven to have IDEAL LIGHT RETURN by AGS, the ONLY grading service that actually will measure and rate the light return of a diamond as "IDEAL" at the time.

Eventually Jon weeded out the AVR's with the ASETS where the petals showed up BLUE. Probably because the blue became misunderstood as "obstruction". And if those facets do not turn on and off it WILL be bad and always cause a dark spot on your diamond that will always be seen by your eyes. Not good.

I have only just recently learned from experience how BLUE on an ASET is NOT necessarily "bad", when I purchased an elongated antique cushion from Adiamor this month. You can go to the thread I started under "Opinions please" where I only posted the video and cert. on this stone. The dark facets at the top and bottom of the stone's pavilion as seen in the video "could be obstruction" as Karl stated.

But IN PERSON and from the ASET I captured of my cushion those facets are always showing white reflections and flashing fire constantly as are those chunky facets across the belly...always reflecting light from ABOVE! As I turn the stone RARELY do those top chunky facets turn dark, as seen in the video. And also on the ASET they can be BLUE/shaded red or only RED! Shock! This proves they are reflecting light from above. Even the tiny sliver facets as seen in the ASET as blue, I can see flashing white and fire at times in my diamond.

I'm not going to post the ASET of my cushion here, so I don't thread jack this discussion on the OP's search for a great modern cut oval which can be seen in Brian Gavins ovals with ASETS that Karl posted.

See the ASET on my avatar of my earth mined marquise and the belly is RED when I look at the stone N/S but when I turn it E/W that belly goes light to dark and dark to light as I move the stone....is that a "bow tie"??? because it only shows sometimes? NO it is not considered a bow tie. It has chunky faceting which was exactly what I was looking for. This is how "blue" can possibly be "bad" if those facets do not turn on and off. You will see a black bow tie on your diamond a majority of the time.

I've noticed this on other sites where they say there is no bow tie on a fancy cut because those blue facets will constantly turn on and off as the stone moves on your hand. But at times they will flash dark for a second as the stone moves.

That is why fancy cuts need an ASET and also need to be seen with your eyes. As even the ASETs can fool you.

I just posted Jon's educational video covering ASETS on LGD's, of OEC's and Elongated Antique Cushions. He didn't cover ovals though. But you can view some modern ovals on his website, some with ASETS and some not. Thus "blue" on ASETS can be tricky.

Someone in this thread posted that blue was "leakage", but that is not correct. Only the black in Brian Gavin's ASETS with the black background is leakage. If the ASET has a white background, then leakage will show as "white".

Thanks to the pioneers like BGD, DG and Victor Canera, who began posting ASETS to prove their diamonds performance. Now others are like WF are providing them as well. GCal is hit or miss as to a stone's performance. Some of the modern cushion cuts do not have great ASETS. But I'm not very familiar with the GCal certs. for fancy cuts.

Hope my experience is helpful to others trying to understand ASET images...or maybe just caused more confusion for some.

I suggest for anyone loving fancy cuts that they buy an ASET and Ideal scope. "Cut Nut", Garry H. posted a YT video on how to use it when you receive your stone. He's hilarious!

Thank you so much for your input! I learned a lot.

 

[ariel144]

I appreciate your input! Do you know if a bowtie in ASET will show up in the color black or blue?


Thank you so much for your input! I learned a lot.

In an ASET it would be blue; but if they are turning on and off it won't look like a bow tie which is obstruction. Blue can also reflect light from the top. Black is leakage when the ASET has a black background. When the background is white leakage shows as white.

Here is an Oval GCAL 8X with an ASET as well for comparison. Interesting. Sorry, I'm just not that familiar with GCAL certifications. To me those "Symmetry" ratings that look similar to an ASET image doesn't really tell much about performance.

2.59ct D VS1 GCAL 8x Cherry Picked Lab Grown Oval Brilliant Diamond

Diamond Details Measurements 11.10 x 7.78 x 4.81mm Cut Ex Polish Ex Symmetry Ex Fluorescence None Culet none Report Table 59% Depth 61.8%

www.distinctivegem.com

Which shape of oval does she prefer? A fat oval or elongated? I wouldn't rule out a good VS1 clarity either. Cut is KING!

I was watching one of Jon's videos vetting an oval LGD and I remember he stated that lots of blues and yellows in the facets that show up in the video indicate that the stone will have a lot of fire. Also I can actually see the star facets going the length of the tables. Soooo...This one caught my eye:

She will be impressed! Does she want a halo? No halo needed on this stone.
Larger than you wanted but the fire should be insane. Almost 7mm x 9.5 mm
[Don't ask in PS if that would be too big! HA! No diamond is ever too big in PS!]

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.79-ct-E-VVS2-Excellent-Cut-Oval-Diamond/D55184711?rfr=search

If interested, You can have them ask the vendor to make sure it doesn't have a bow tie, but it looks fine to me.
New posted 3 days ago: Vetting oval cut:

Another oval vetting:

Enjoy!

 

[geoffraffe]

In an ASET it would be blue; but if they are turning on and off it won't look like a bow tie which is obstruction. Blue can also reflect light from the top. Black is leakage when the ASET has a black background. When the background is white leakage shows as white.

Here is an Oval GCAL 8X with an ASET as well for comparison. Interesting. Sorry, I'm just not that familiar with GCAL certifications. To me those "Symmetry" ratings that look similar to an ASET image doesn't really tell much about performance.

2.59ct D VS1 GCAL 8x Cherry Picked Lab Grown Oval Brilliant Diamond

Diamond Details Measurements 11.10 x 7.78 x 4.81mm Cut Ex Polish Ex Symmetry Ex Fluorescence None Culet none Report Table 59% Depth 61.8%

www.distinctivegem.com

Which shape of oval does she prefer? A fat oval or elongated? I wouldn't rule out a good VS1 clarity either. Cut is KING!

I was watching one of Jon's videos vetting an oval LGD and I remember he stated that lots of blues and yellows in the facets that show up in the video indicate that the stone will have a lot of fire. Also I can actually see the star facets going the length of the tables. Soooo...This one caught my eye:

She will be impressed! Does she want a halo? No halo needed on this stone.
Larger than you wanted but the fire should be insane. Almost 7mm x 9.5 mm
[Don't ask in PS if that would be too big! HA! No diamond is ever too big in PS!]

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.79-ct-E-VVS2-Excellent-Cut-Oval-Diamond/D55184711?rfr=search

If interested, You can have them ask the vendor to make sure it doesn't have a bow tie, but it looks fine to me.
New posted 3 days ago: Vetting oval cut:

Another oval vetting:

Enjoy!

Thanks for the replies and the videos! Those were very helpful in what to look for. Luckily for my wallet my girlfriend really likes small and "dainty" jewelry and mentioned possibly going under a carat, I tried pushing her up to 1.5+ but she said 1.25 is probably the maximum she would like.

I think I'm going to pull the trigger with one of the Brian Gavin Diamonds for peace of mind (I like that they provide ASET imaging). They have lots of blue and yellows flashing throughout the diamonds as well, I don't want to go thru a buy and return process several times before I find one I like.

As for oval shapes, I think I'm going to go with something around 1.4 or so.

 

[ariel144]

Did you buy the 1.18?

 

[geoffraffe]

Did you buy the 1.18?

No unfortunately I didn't have it on hold and it got taken by someone else. Bummer, but there are plenty of nice ones still available!