Our Experience With GOG

[limey]

Up to you re/ GOG. I think you are being a little myopic to take the advice of what I feel is an over fussy and difficult customer. I still do not see where GOG really let this customer down. They purchased a great stone (GOG really does have the some of the best and the best eductional sales process), the purchased a setting, changed their minds, got it reset and appraised and then instead of working with GOG to fix any problems they post to an Internet forum.

I have tried local B&M's and I was very dubious about using the Internet to buy a stone. What is cool about GOG is they are actaully a progressive B&M.

That said, it is your money and best of luck.

 

[Nicrez]

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On 4/13/2004 10:36:58 AM Stewbie2002 wrote:

Guess I'll mark GOG off my list...

What about Abazias?----------------

Why? GOG has had an excellent service record. Their prices tend to be a bit over some of the LOW internet prices, but always competitive. They also almost always carry some of the FINEST specimens of diamonds and as such warrant their slight premium. I am hard pressed to find people who would not recommend GOG. Their prices are a bit high, but that depends on the stone and the person's budget.

Abazias has been pretty good, my only contention has been their wacky prices listed on some stones that were blatant mistakes, and that's happened quite a lot. Not sure if it was intentional or not. Most people are very happy with them and their prices.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 4/12/2004 11:51:19 PM luvmysparklies wrote:

'TheDiamondPro and Uncle Marty,

I must say that I'm disapponited that you chose to hijack this thread to espouse your deeply held views on internet shopping and B&M jewelry stores. This thread was originally started to discuss some service issues with a particular vendor, who happens to be on vacation. Thanks to you, this thread has been sidetracked.
----------------

You are not the first one to point this out. And, please be aware I am not attacking you. But, I do take serious issue w/ people being so concerned about "hijacking" a thread. To me, it's called brainstorming & some of the most intelligent dialog happens when, in a civil matter, issues that may not be an *exact* match to the thread can be discussed.

I like the internet because it is a free exchange of ideas. I ask all of you. In a conversation about customer service in a jewelry store, would you reprimand a friend who veered off track to talk about customer service related issues at the grocery store. Nope, not me.

 

[Hest88]

----------------
What has happened to the respect consumers had for their "Jeweler". Are we relegated to the level of used car salespeople (not intended to rank these sellers on the bottom of the listings of unscroupulous (sp) sellers.
----------------

Uncle Marty, there are a number of jewelers I respect, but the day is long gone when any intelligent consumer will throw his entire trust behind any unknown professional. Geez, many of us have learned not to trust doctors completely, must less jewelers. A jeweler needs to earn my trust, just like any other human being.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 4/13/2004 10:36:58 AM Stewbie2002 wrote:





Guess I'll mark GOG off my list...

What about Abazias?
----------------

Hell, Stewbie, you may as well mark EVERYONE off your list, then, if your criteria is that stringent. That's like saying you won't fly on an airline who's EVER had a flight delay.....there'd be no one left to fly with! How about refusing to drive any model car that's been involved in a fender-bender? Silly.

*Every vendor here* has had a few service foibles from tine to time.....it's called being *human*. If you expect your jeweler to be infalliable, then you're going to be sadly disappointed.

The truth is: most of the frequently talked-about vendors here provide a service that beats the tar out of most local jewelers on a day-in, day-out basis.

FYI, I know the "behind-the-scenes" on this post, and the truth is that SEVERAL vendors are spoken of here.....just not by name. And the point of discussing it is to help bridge the communication gap between what customers expect and what vendors provide.

If you have a mouth and you know how to open it to tell your vendor "precisely" what your expectations are, there shouldn't be any reason that ANY of the vendors here couldn't meet your expectations.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 4/13/2004 11:24:41 AM fire&ice wrote:

----------------
On 4/12/2004 11:51:19 PM luvmysparklies wrote:





'TheDiamondPro and Uncle Marty,

I must say that I'm disapponited that you chose to hijack this thread to espouse your deeply held views on internet shopping and B&M jewelry stores. This thread was originally started to discuss some service issues with a particular vendor, who happens to be on vacation. Thanks to you, this thread has been sidetracked.
----------------

You are not the first one to point this out. And, please be aware I am not attacking you. But, I do take serious issue w/ people being so concerned about 'hijacking' a thread. To me, it's called brainstorming & some of the most intelligent dialog happens when, in a civil matter, issues that may not be an *exact* match to the thread can be discussed.

I like the internet because it is a free exchange of ideas. I ask all of you. In a conversation about customer service in a jewelry store, would you reprimand a friend who veered off track to talk about customer service related issues at the grocery store. Nope, not me.

----------------

Have to agree with F&I on this.....there are times when the discussion at hand spawns derivative discussions, and that exchange of viewpoints is of value to me as well.

Honestly, LMS, how much more would you like to beat the horse on the original post? What else is there to say that hasn't been said yet?

 

[luvmysparklies]

Actually Aljdewey, I was inviting commentary to my thread regarding the horrible treatment that I have received from my local jewelers. I was not trying to beat a dead horse about hijacking the thread, I really could care less if people go off track. I think that is a matter of how conversation would go in person, so I have no problem with it. Maybe I made the mistake of quoting what the other poster stated, but with the rest of my post I was trying to make a reference and segue to my thread. I feel strongly about B&M jewelers who are not taking into account all of the reasons that a person may turn to the internet. When I read things like people being offended at consumers asking for sarins or if you do happen to care about getting the very best deal you can money-wise, that "you don't deserve better treatement" etc. I get very angry because of my experience in trying to build a relationship with my locals only to be dismissed or mistreated. As a matter of fact, by me referencing my thread, I have also done my part to "hijack"

so again, my problem is not the flow of conversation. My problem really is about how I was treated by my local jewelers and maybe there is room for another reason why folks might turn to the internet. It is not just bottom dollar pricing. My apologies to anyone who felt I was beating a dead horse about hijacking, because really that was not my intent.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 4/13/2004 12:47:30 PM luvmysparklies wrote:





Actually Aljdewey, I was inviting commentary to my thread regarding the horrible treatment that I have received from my local jewelers. ----------------

Obviously my misunderstanding, then, LMS.

When I read your comments, what I saw was "I'm disapponited that you chose to hijack this thread .......", and "Thanks to you, this thread has been sidetracked."

I'll confess those remarks don't sound like much of an "invitation" to me. I perceive them to be chiding and disapproving.

 

[luvmysparklies]

Aljdewey, I agree that (for what I was trying to do - which was invite for discussion on my thread) those words do sound chiding and disapproving. What I am saying was that it was my mistake to quote those words. Those are words posted by "noobie" on the second page of this thread that I regret using in my post (again on the second page of this thread) to invite commentary in my own thread about alternative reasons for using the internet. After I quoted noobie--- my own words were,

"Thanks Noobie for this...I was hoping for input from theDiamondPro and Uncle Marty in my thread that I started earlier called "another viewpoint of internet purchasing." I have had terrible experiences with my "local jeweler(s)"

It was a mistake to quote noobie in trying to segue to my thread. All I wanted to do was to offer other reasons that people may use the internet as an alternative to B&Ms. And, my reason(s) had to do with rude, dismissive treatment. Since "hijacking" had been brought up (of which I am guilty of too), I thought I would bring up my thread(as an alternative place to further discuss) for anyone. Through my thread I just wanted to address some of the negative comments made about internet purchasing and see if others had experienced what I did. So, again MY BAD!!!!

 

[Rhino]

Greetings all,

/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]> /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>

Last night (Saturday the 10th) I managed to hop online and download this thread to respond to the original posting and other points that were brought up.So I’m beginning my typing of this as I’m on the road driving back to NY.

/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]> /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>

To those of you who have been in email conversations with me in the past you know I like to respond to my emails on a thought for thought basis as it is easier for me to address each point as it is brought up.I will be following the same format here as well with regards to particular subjects.

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This post will be an interesting learning experience as well for the readers as I will be sharing some typical problems that every Internet vendor experiences/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]referrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"> /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]ath o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f">/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]ath>which are at times unavoidable and will perhaps prepare consumers and future consumers what possibilities to expect.Any vendors who want to chime in and share their experiences are welcome of course.

/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]> /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>

Onto the first post which started this thread…

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Hi Everyone,

After spending months learning about the basic fundamentals of diamond cuts through PS I decided to buy my fiancee a ring. After reading all the stellar reviews, my fiancee and I set-up an appt. with Jonathan at GOG to select a H&A diamond and setting. When we got to the store, instead of meeting with Jonathan, we were directed to Amy (Jonathan was out sick). Needless to say, we were a little diappointed after driving out to meet the man we had heard so much about (no offense to Amy). /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>

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Dissappointment #1 for Team02:I was not in the store that day.I think this was the first Saturday I had been sick in God knows how long.Rarely ever do I call in sick and whenever possible I avoid not being in my store on a Saturday.Anyone of you who have ever visited our store on a Saturday know that we are pack jammed on Saturday’s from opening till closing.It is never good for me not to be in our store on a Saturday.I was terribly sick and this first disappointment for Team02 is something that was beyond our control. As long as human beings get sick there is always that possibility.Team02 was not the only person who had an appointment with me that day as there were approx. 3-4 others.Believe me I didn’t plan on it.

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While she spent a good deal of time with us, it seemed as though at some points she wasn't really paying attention to what we wanted (at one point she brought a Si2 stone and started pitching me on it after I had told her our base clarity was VS2). After we found the right diamond for my fiancee(1.41 H&A, VS1, Color I),we proceeded to the choose a setting. This was particularly disconcerting process. /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>

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While I was not there to see what was going on I can tell you this.My younger sister Amy is to our in store business what I am to our Internet business.Our employees (especially on our busier days) are always coming to her with questions from their customers and she is literally pulled in 20 directions at one time.Especially on Saturdays.My sister sacrificially gives of her time and helps me with clients who come to our store who come to us via the net.She is very knowledgeable and helps every person she comes in contact with to the best of her ability with great patience and kindness.While you may realize this or not she may have been showing you an eye clean SI2 to help save you money.My sister has the purist of intentions and would never try to sell a person something they do not want which is why the “pitch” does not make sense to me.Why would a person want to pitch a less expensive item? If I know my sister and her character I would be willing to bet she was doing it in the spirit of helping you, not trying to sell you something you do not want. It is just not our style. If any of you have met my sister or she has helped you in the past there is one thing you know for sure about her … she does not pitch people or hard sell anyone.It is inconsistent with her nature and character.As a matter of fact NONE of my staff are instructed to do this.All the people we help, purchase because they want to purchase.Not because we coerced them into something they did not want.Team02, I think you took my sisters intentions the wrong way.She only means the best for our clients and my sister bends over backwards to help them get what they want.

Since we wanted (not needed) the rock sooner rather than later, she showed us some used rings. We finally selected one and Amy told us it would be set the NEXT day. Later that night my fiancee unhappy with the fit (it was a little loose) and the fact that it was used wanted to order a brand new, slightly different setting in a different size./www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>

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Yes but the fact to be pointed out here is that you did agree to purchase that specific setting and Amy told you specifically that (in the interest of helping you) we would have it set and sized the next day, which we did.

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At this point we told her we could wait and were unconcerned about time (prev. scheduled business trip had been cancelled). I called her the next day to confirm that she had ordered the new ring and to my shock she said she had set the diamond in the original setting. I told her that we specifically wanted it changed and she started hard-selling us on the old setting. After reading everything I had read on PS, I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone./www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>

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I do not understand why you were surprised that the diamond was set into the setting the next day as she had promised.We were doing our best to accommodate you. When we found out the only reason you wanted a different setting was because you wanted it ordered in her finger size (without us sizing the ring your fiance’ had picked out) Amy probably tried to explain that the settings would be identical except for the fact of a simple ring sizing.After we had altered the setting you had picked it seemed strange to us that a person would want to order a whole new setting just so the ring would not have to be sized.Ring sizings are common place on new rings which is what she may have been trying to explain that the setting was fine, besides the fact that we had cut the prongs, set the diamond and sized the ring according to your instructions. However in the interest of serving you we ordered you a new setting according to your instructions.

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What is ironic is that even though you had my sister order you the new setting, the finger size you had instructed my sister to order it in was wrong and the ring has to be sized anyway putting you back at square one.You would have been better off taking the original setting it seems.

We stood our ground and she finally ordered the new ring (which she said would be here in 2 weeks - it took over 3 weeks). /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>

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Another disappointment that was beyond our control (as was my sickness).When we are special ordering settings from manufacturers they sometimes tell us it will be ready in 1 week or 2 weeks and it sometimes takes an extra week for any number of reasons.This does not happen often but does indeed happen from time to time.

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In the interim, we had the rock shipped to AGA - D. Atlas for an appraisal. There service was 2nd to none and I felt really comfortable dealing with them. They told me they shipped the diamond and appraisal back to Amy at GOG and Amy insisted that AGA still had the appraisal (guess who I believed). /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>

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Amy should have directed you to Christen who handles all Internet administrative.

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In the need we got the ring (which was still a little loose), the appraisal (which GOG had all along) and (almost) all of the paperwork and test results posted on the site. Outside of the service we received, we are tremendously happy with the diamond itself. I'm not trying to slander GOG or Amy, I know a lot of you have excellent experience dealing with them. As an aside, now that we have to get the ring resized, any recommendations on where to go in NYC?

Best Wishes and Thank you all/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>

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As I review this post in whole I understand that Team02 was annoyed with 2 things that were beyond our control (my sickness and the exact time it took to get in the 2nd setting) and perhaps misunderstood my sisters’ intentions.

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I think it’s important to point out that these are innocent things that can happen to anyone in any business and Team02 was simply sharing this experience with us.Had I been in his shoes I’m sure I would have also been a little miffed if the person I had an appointment with was not there (and drove a few hours to get there) and that the 2nd setting took a week longer than expected etc.

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I know it was not your intent to slander but this post would leave a person thinking … UGH, I would never want to deal with this Amy person!I would end this particular post by saying that my sister is one of the most patient and giving people I know of in this life.She exemplifies the finest qualities in a salesperson (+ manager).She is a devout Christian and strives to live and maintain the qualities of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness & self-control in her daily life.Plus we can’t forget the fact that she did have your original ring ready for you much quicker than you anticipated (the next day!).

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I would also point out in closing that not once did we not have your best intentions in mind during the course of the entire transaction.We did everything within our means to serve you as quickly and proficiently as possible.Yes there are a few things that could have been done differently (Amy should have directed you to Christen for paperwork related issues) but I don’t think you can call into question our honesty, integrity and sincerity of heart in wanting to help make this a pleasant experience for you.Please understand that we always mean the best for our clients and we are always exploring ways in which to serve them better. Overally I do not see any major complaint here. 2 unfortunate mishaps that were beyond our control and a misunderstanding.

I appreciate you sharing this experience Team02 as it was honest. If there is anything you would personally change, were you in our shoes, what would it be?

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Best regards,

Jonathan

 

[Rhino]

This next post is in response to areas of concern brought up by ChrisUK, AM, Aljdewey and should be titled "A look behind the scenes of an Internet Purchase" or perhaps "The Natural and Unnatural Pitfalls that can happen in an Internet transaction".




Leonid, it is not my intent to self promote in this post but I do list things specific to our business which has been brought up in this thread which I address. If you deem it necessary to delete my post or this thread ... you da boss. I know for a fact certain vendors will write and complain to you as there are certain ones who always do when I post concerning our business. That'll be up to you.

Internet vendors, the type of business’ they run and the possible pit falls of each.

On the net you can find a number of various types of diamond business’.I will list the types and the possible things that can “go wrong” during the transaction.The more options the vendor offers, the more the chances are increased for a possibility of something not going according to plan.Not counting settings (we’ll get to that in a second) here are the various types of “diamond vendors”.

1. An internet vendor that does not stock an inventory and strictly sells diamonds off a “virtual database”.
   
2. An internet vendor that does stock inventory and strictly sells what they do have in inventory.
   
3. An internet vendor that does stock an inventory PLUS offers diamonds off a “virtual database”.

Generally the largest problem here (and consumers can expect these pitfalls in dealing with those who try to “locate” diamonds off a virtual database) is this.When diamonds are not stocked those vendors who try to find particular diamonds for clients off a virtual database can run into a number unfortunate problems.Every internet diamond seller who offers this option can relate to what I’m about to say.

1. 
   
   1. The diamond listed has already been sold.
      
   2. The diamond listed is out with another jeweler on memo.
      
   3. The diamond listed has the wrong price.
      
   4. The diamond listed (fill in the blank).
      
   5. And finally the diamond listed is actually available.

We happen to be a business that falls into #3 above because we do stock a large inventory plus we offer to help clients locate a diamond if we do not necessarily have it in stock.Many times … and I repeat MANY TIMES the diamonds listed on virtual databases fall into categories a-d above.When my assistant Marie or myself perform a search for a client on a virtual database we may pull up numerous stones that fall within the clients parameters and the first questions running through our heads is … “Are they really there?”I think every internet diamond vendor is thinking this same thing.So we begin to email or call the manufacturer or cutting facility possessing the actual diamond.Generally we are at least looking for 2 bits of information. A copy (or preferably scan) of the lab report (GIA/AGS) and a Sarin/OGI on the diamond for its proportions.Potential problems that can happen at this juncture …

1. They don’t respond quickly (or as quickly as the client would like).
   
2. When you finally do get a response (and if you were lucky to find the diamond is available) they don’t have a Sarin.
   
3. If they don’t have a Sarin but know someone who does, further delays the response time.

This can get very frustrating to the internet vendor who is trying to offer these services and it can seem that they are *lacking* in customer service and response time when in fact it is something that is beyond their control.And when you are trying to help 20 people locate diamonds it is near impossible to keep every single person in step with the entire process along the way.

It is during this process that we have lost clients as I’m sure it’s happened to all vendors who attempt to offer this service.People just get tired of waiting and it is understandable. To those who have the patience to wait it out it can be very rewarding of course.Let me also state that these things do not happen all the time and the majority of clients we help in this manner are done so successfully.With our particular business we offer 2 different options in which to purchase diamonds off a “virtual database”.We offer a “drop ship” (or brokers) price and we also offer the client a “full service” option in which we offer a full appraisal (hands on inspection), digital & hard copy, featuring a web page with all the data.This of course incurs more expense but we outline this for our clients on our website.

So in short, with regards to diamond sales.You will always get your quickest service among vendors who stock their diamonds and happen to have what it is you are looking for.Once a vendor has to locate one off a virtual database these are the pitfalls that can possibly take place and one the consumer should be aware of.

On to the settings.This is the area of our business in particular that needs strengthening which has been pointed out and rightfully so.

While there are some internet vendors that do not offer settings at all there are many that do.Among them you will find …

1. Vendors that only offer a simple Tiffany style mounting.
   
2. Vendors that offer or display their in-stock settings.
   
3. Vendors that offer settings from a catalogue.
   
4. Vendors that offer custom made settings.

Here again, your quickest service is going to be among your vendors that offer the simple tiffany style settings or in stock mountings.In particular we offer options 1 & 3 above via the net and as we get more help would like to photograph our in-stock settings (we have hundreds, lots of work).We do not offer option #4 over the net because there are a plethora of things that can possibly go wrong with custom made settings via the net and we prefer to refer you to a specialist like Mark Morrell for custom made rings.

When ordering from a setting manufacturer there are of course a number of things that can possibly go wrong.

1. They may tell you 2 weeks for the ring when in some instances does take longer.
   
2. Once the ring is finished and completed may not pass our personal QA (porosity in the metal, final polish of the ring, diamond not set straight, etc.)Most of these can be alleviated in house by our jeweler or diamond setter but there are times we prefer to order the client a new setting which increases the time it takes to get the final product.

The more options a company offers their clients for settings the more the chances exist for possible delays etc. which may be viewed by some as a “lack” of customer service or response time but is once again out of the jewelers control.This is not common place but does happen from time to time and is beyond the control of the vendor.

The problem we currently have (which we have now taken action on) is I would handle all diamond inquiries and sales, helping people in the selection process but if a client needed help with a setting I would immediately refer them to my assistant Diana who is part time help. Another part timer of ours has started helping Diana with this but this has not turned out to be the best solution either. As Chris UK and AM rightfully pointed out, email response time from [email protected] is not the best and we are eliminating this step in the process.

The steps we have taken to alleviate this problem is that I will now be handling all setting inquiries as well to get these answered in a timely fashion.Christen and Marie (who are in our store everyday) will also be helping with this as well so if I make any referrals to them your inquiry will be handled in a more timely fashion.

On a side note.I have hired staff to specifically help us with the diamonds portion of our business and for the most part we have this streamlined. Christen, Marie and Charles not only handle paperwork, appraisals, settings, ordering, shipping, locating diamonds, scanning, testing, etc. but also help clients at the counter in our store.They answer their email in a very timely fashion and generally have out a response within 1-2 working days.Since I focus primarily on answering the email and customer service I generally have out a response within 12-24 hours (sometimes even within minutes when I’m sitting in front of my computer).My only counter time is with my appointments.

I would like to expound on something Dave has brought up too concerning the “settings” part of the process.

Dave states: 2. Mountings and many other things have so many variables that no one can just offer them simply on the Internet. They need to be personally described; each one needs to fit your stone and finger. They are all very different from one another in many important aspects. In other words, they don't lend themselves as well to remote purchasing as diamonds do.

We get emails from clients pertaining to settings where they want to know

• mm size of every diamond in the ring.

• mm size of the shank from the top to where it graduates on the bottom.
  
• Pictures of multiple settings from multiple angles etc.

This is not always an easy task and in some (if not most) circumstances the setting would have to be special ordered and called in to answer some or all of the questions.Even when we call the manufacturers with these questions many times they do not have all the answers we are seeking.As Dave has rightfully pointed out, settings have many variables and no manufacturer lists all these variables in a single database.
There have also been quite a few times recently where people ask us to modify a setting they purchased elsewhere.We will not perform alterations on settings purchased elsewhere as this can open up a whole different can of worms.

Believe me … it would be MUCH easier to do what some websites do and just offer a simple tiffany style mounting or no settings at all.This would really streamline the process.We are however a full service bricks and mortar store and deal with the issues common to full service B&M stores.

I thank all of you for your patience while I was away and I’m back and ready to tackle all new inquiries. J

Any other vendors/consumers who would like to give their input I’d love to hear from ya’ll and I hope this has helped give a deeper perspective to the buying process and things that take place behind the scenes in the Internet diamond business.

Kind regards,

 

[Nicrez]

So well said Rhino! These are not the kinds of mistakes or issues I would have THAT much of a problem with. With so many real crooks out there, these "issues" do leave a bad taste, but do not TAINT or diminish the help that is still obvious.

Having only dealt with GOG on the phone and through e-mail only, I can say that sometimes the responses were lightening quick and soemtimes not as quick. I didn't complain, because what I got as responses were honest and helpful. Always.

I never felt rushed, patronized, and laughed at for my requests, which frankly were a PAIN...Square perfect radiant...

My experience with jewelers in NYC can be best described as chaotic and painful. I encountered stupidity, sheer laziness to search for a stone, misinformation, and blatant switch and bait, over pricing to the extreme, irritation and high pressure sales tactics all over the board. One guy actually said that I won't find my stone because no one would be stupid enough to cut a perfectly good colorless stone with good clarity into a radiant. They use that rough for round stones only. ????

Another guy insisted that Sarin reports are for round stones ONLY, and can't even measure a radiant. Another guy told me to come back when I actually get a boyfriend to stop wasting his time, as I wa with my coworker looking for the stone. Some guys acted patronizing because I was a woman, and said "are you buying your OWN ring, missy?" And even others gave me princesses instead of radiants and insisted those are the ONLY square stones around. No such thing, this radiant! Another guy made me look at all his ugly round stones and said that who wants a radiant anyway, when round stones are more expensive and desirable? Yeah.

I met BAAAAD B&M dealers, and I met some good ones. Some cheap ones, some expensive ones. Some worth their premium, some...NOT. In my view, my exeperience with GOG, I would LOVE to have found my stone there, as I would do business with them again, anytime! But that's just one satisfied person out of MANY more...

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 4/8/2004 2:19:19 PM Team02 wrote:

While she (Amy) spent a good deal of time with us, it seemed as though at some points she wasn't really paying attention to what we wanted (at one point she brought a Si2 stone and started pitching me on it after I had told her our base clarity was VS2). ----------------

I meant to make a comment on this before, and forgot about it until Jonathan tagged it in his reply, too.

Team02, maybe you would feel a bit more understanding about Amy's offering alternate clarity choices if you considered the following. Some folks want VS clarity because they are truly sensitive to seeing inclusions. Some want VS because their brother-in-law who shopped at Zales was told by his salesman that anything less than VS is inferior. Some want VS because they have never seen an SI stone, so they don't realize that eye-clean REALLY MEANS eye-clean. Some want VS because Bubba the watchmaker told them VS is a great quality.

My point? A jeweler's role is to help you find the best buy for your money. I'd suggest that Amy offered you SI alternatives because there was likely some discussion about how to increase size/color, whatever, and she felt it MIGHT be an option you hadn't previously considered for any of the above reasons.

I told my online vendor that I wanted an H, SI1 stone. When I asked him about such a stone in his stock, he looked at it and felt the inclusions were on the dark side. He also told me that he had a slightly bigger H, SI2 in stock and that HE felt it was actually cleaner than the SI1. I was very hesitant to consider an SI2, but decided to be open-minded and give weight to his expert opinion. Instead of being mad at him for trying to pick the best diamond for me, I decided to trust him and saved a TON of money doing so. Instead of getting a 1.12 H, SI1, I got an AMAZING stone-- 1.24 H, SI2-- for LESS money. It's completely eye-clean--from *any* viewpoint.

As a customer, I'm *grateful* when a vendor takes the time to suggest other options that might please me. After all, I always have the right to say "no, thanks"......but I'd rather know about it and decline than not know about it at all.

A final thing to consider: The reality of diamond shopping is that you can only choose from *what's available at the time*. When I first began shopping, I wanted an H, SI1 that fell in the .9x range. No one had something like that in stock. Instead of saying "sorry, can't help you", they tried to find equally pleasing alternatives. Through that process, my criteria actually changed, and I found a great stone.

It's great to have an *idea* of what you want in mind.....but that shouldn't mean that helpful jewelers shouldn't try to present alternatives that might fit your bill better than you imagined initially. It's too bad such efforts (like Amy's assistance) aren't valued and appreciated instead of seen as an annoyance.

 

[aljdewey]

Jonathan, your second post is very detailed, and I think it's pretty clear that there are several things out of a vendor's control, especially when dealing with stones that aren't part of inventory.




There is one thing, though, that is squarely *within* your control (and by your, I mean ALL vendors, not you specifically).....and that is communicating those challenges as promptly as possible to the customer. If you can't get a Sarin on a stone because it's out on memo, tell the customer that. If you've noted that a setting takes 2 weeks to come in, and it runs into a delay, tell the customer that.




Educating a customer means more than just telling them about diamonds. It means taking the time to advise *before* the setting is ordered "on average, it takes two weeks to get a setting in, but there are times when delays occur. I hope that doesn't become a factor, but if it does, I will communicate that to you as timely as I can." It means saying "I should have those reports for you by next Monday, but if it turns out that the stones are out on memo, I may be unable to get them by Monday. If that happens, I'll give you an updated ETA when I know more."




If you help us set our expectations realistically, you'll be helping not only us but yourselves. If we understand what's "reasonable", you win. You guys sometimes forget that we *don't* know about those unforseen things that you consider everyday and commonplace, and if we better understood those challenges up front, everyone would be on the same page.




Communication is the single biggest fix.

 

[strmrdr]

Al Im going to have to disagree with you about the si2 type situation.

While I wasn’t there so I don’t know exactly how it was presented so I will comment in general and not about this specific case:

I would be unhappy because:
It shows that the salesperson was either: select one or more
A:> Didnt bother to ASK why I wanted what I did.
B:>not LISTENING to me when I requested vs2
C:>ASSUMED I didn’t have a very good reason for asking for what I did. (hint hint)
D:>didn’t have what I wanted so trying to PUSH something
E:>WASTING my time showing me something I DIDN'T WANT
F:>thought my reasons were not correct therefore its ok to IGNORE them.
G:> DOESN’T CARE what I want.

Any one you pick its RUDE


This is different than happened in your case.
I would have no problem with something along the lines of:
I have a cherry si1 diamond that’s even better than the vs2 there and just as eye clean and it was the truth. With no push.
That is what happened in your case with your si2 vs the si1 and your happy with it.
There is a huge difference between that and just going and getting a si2.

 

[Mara]

yes but strm its important to note that we only have a hearsay explanation of what happened. the original poster could have construed amy as 'pushing' him onto an SI2 when in her mind possibly she was just trying to educate. no one is in the wrong in a situation like that, but its all about perception. she may have perceived him to be open to other suggestions, and he may have perceived her as being pushy.

 

[strmrdr]

Mara,
Thats why I put the disclaimer on it.
I dont know for sure what exackly happened only those that were there can.

The way im seeing this thread is a learning experence for both the consumers and the vendors here and I wanted to present the other side of the coin.
I dont see this thread as a knock Amy or Jonathon around thread.
If I was in the market they would be at the top of my list of places to buy.
His replies in this thread just prove that he is a first class vendor and is taking on the problem.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 4/13/2004 9:43:53 PM strmrdr wrote:


While I wasn’t there so I don’t know exactly how it was presented so I will comment in general and not about this specific case:

I would be unhappy because:
It shows that the salesperson was either: select one or more
A:> Didnt bother to ASK why I wanted what I did.
B:>not LISTENING to me when I requested vs2
C:>ASSUMED I didn’t have a very good reason for asking for what I did. (hint hint)
D:>didn’t have what I wanted so trying to PUSH something
E:>WASTING my time showing me something I DIDN'T WANT
F:>thought my reasons were not correct therefore its ok to IGNORE them.
G:> DOESN’T CARE what I want.

Any one you pick its RUDE


This is different than happened in your case.
I would have no problem with something along the lines of:
I have a cherry si1 diamond that’s even better than the vs2 there and just as eye clean and it was the truth. With no push.
That is what happened in your case with your si2 vs the si1 and your happy with it.
There is a huge difference between that and just going and getting a si2.

----------------

Yeah, we don't know what happened & how is was presented. But, as is "pushed", I'd be peeved as well. I don't mind suggestions & appreciated the reasons behind those suggestions.

But, I also feel that at a certain point, what I want is what I want.

 

[Uncle Marty]

GOG,
Once again I am happy I sold my B & M and no longer have to deal with manufacturers who do not understand that when they make a promise of delivery we forwarded that information to our retail customers. All too often these promised dates were accepted by the ultimate consumers as written in stone.

Retailers selling other items such as furniture have the same problems. But for some reason the fact that furniture due dates are often an approx. date is more accepted by consumers.
I can quote many other items both large and small in price and actual size that most consumers
accept lateness as a matter of fact.

Ours is an unique business. We are expected to be forthright and exact about the items we are selling because that is the consumers right.

When we bought furniture from a major well known retailer as being solid Cherry, made by an equally well known manufacturer, the fact that the inside draws of the night tables and the inside draws of the dresser was made of inferior wood,should I have cancelled our order because there was not complete disclosure. And then tell the retailer to sell it someone else because they misrepresented and expect my money back.
Or bad mouth the retailer and the manufacturer and tell all who would listen that these sellers misrepresented.

GOG I can remember all the times our customers changed their minds about a style of ring requested
after the fact we had ordered in her/his size and color of gold, and the consumer allowed us to eat the mounting, stating of course we could sell it to someone else (maybe never).

Yes, I am happy to have removed myself from the selling of Diamonds to ultimate consumers. I happily leave this theatre to you and all the other sellers on PS.

My interest in joining the discussion on PS was to point out that there are B & M jewelry stores (not all 42,000 jewelry retailers)who are honest and knowledgeable. I too can point out jewelry retailers who are dishonest and pushy. But, in my opinion there are many that are not. I wanted to direct some of the potential buyers to a few of these who are my customers.

I am told I am not permitted to advertise my vocation on this website. I see how it is done by others. But alas I have no one wanting or interested in suggesting one of the subs on PS contact me to make a purchase or sell me their product. Recommedations by others to view an item on another website are readily accepted but I am not permitted to "toot my own horn".

Also leonid prohibits me from attempting to "frighten the subscribers" on PS.
Apparently his definition of information that I am offering will frighten the subs. They are so delicate they can not be educated by me. However, just like other information websites on The Internet all too often information offered on The Internet is misinformation. Since this website is owned by leonid he is the ultimate decider of what is information and what is disinformation.

All I ask is those that read this understand that my motive is to teach and learn, not destroy anyone.

Uncle Marty

 

[Mara]

----------------
On 4/14/2004 2:48:53 PM Uncle Marty wrote:

I am told I am not permitted to advertise my vocation on this website. I see how it is done by others. But alas I have no one wanting or interested in suggesting one of the subs on PS contact me to make a purchase or sell me their product. Recommedations by others to view an item on another website are readily accepted but I am not permitted to 'toot my own horn'.

Also leonid prohibits me from attempting to 'frighten the subscribers' on PS.
Apparently his definition of information that I am offering will frighten the subs. They are so delicate they can not be educated by me. However, just like other information websites on The Internet all too often information offered on The Internet is misinformation. Since this website is owned by leonid he is the ultimate decider of what is information and what is disinformation.

All I ask is those that read this understand that my motive is to teach and learn, not destroy anyone.

Uncle Marty

-------

Uncle Marty..I like you but PLEASE stop with the whining already. Yes as you noted this IS Leonid's playground. If you don't like...then why stick around? I hate when I see people complaining about what they can or can't do somewhere on the net. The net just doesn't pop up places like Pscope, there is alot of work that goes into creation and maintenance. Yes Leonid runs things and he does what he sees fit.

This is effectively Leonid's home, he runs it for all of us and it's not even his REAL JOB, he has to do that too. We are all guests in his home, would you go to a friend's house and complain about their decor or what is the topic of conversation that evening at dinner? What makes the net so different? If the forum and the owner and 'delicate subs' are not to your liking, please don't stay.

Drama is never welcome in ANY manner, even when couched under the guise of wanting to educate. If you stick around, do it because you want to and you like the group...and don't make EVERY post about how someone is stifling you and how you feel SO incredibly put upon to not say what you really feel because the owner won't let you...etc etc. It's very tedious as a regular to see this...and then still see you stick around singing the same song.

My world's smallest violin is playing "my heart bleeds for you"...can't you hear it? I didn't think so.

----------------

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 4/14/2004 2:53:25 PM Mara wrote:

----------------

-------
Uncle Marty..I like you but PLEASE stop with the whining already.

----------------

My sentiments exactly.

To add: the old diamond traders want consumers to view a diamond *not* as a commoditity. Yet, when consumers view it *not* as a commoditiy the old diamond traders complain about that. Whine Whine Whine & another Whine.

 

[aljdewey]

Marty: There is no comparison between furniture that doesn't arrive on time and an engagement ring that doesn't arrive on time. One doesn't make huge gradiose dinner/carriage ride/vacation plans around a damn sofa delivery.....capice? An e-ring is a purchase unlike any other, and trying to compare it to those things is ridiculous.

Second....I wholeheartedly agree with Mara....STOP the WHINING. NO, you are NOT allowed to toot your own horn on the forums (more on that in a second). Too bad. Neither is anyone else. Dem's da rules.....like it or lump it....but stop complaining about it like a martyr. You are not being singled out or picked on, for Pete's sake.

I highly doubt, though, that you've been told you are "not permitted to advertise my vocation on this website." I'm sure if you wanted to take a banner ad or something, you most certainly could. The rules against self-promotion apply to POSTS IN THE OPEN FORUMS. Hopefully I've said that loudly enough that you'll hear it this time.

Let's review......AGAIN. A customer recommendation or testimonial is allowed on this forum.....it's part of the reason for being around here. People ask who others have had good experiences with. That is a completely different animal from self-promotion (emphasis on SELF), which is NOT a customer experience. This isn't a quantum physics theory, so I fail to understand why you can't grasp this.

No one is inclined to recommend your website to date? Believe me when I tell you, UM, if you keep whining this way, I can assure you that won't change.

Oh, and re: your sarcastic comments about "frightening the customer" and Leonid being the "decider of what's informative and not".....Marty, you are seriously digging yourself an unflattering hole here. If you find the rules here so distasteful, you are certainly free to find a site that is more to your liking. There is no one twisting your arm forcing you to be here. But if you choose to stay, *stop whining*.

 

[Team02]

Hi Everyone,

I apologize for not responding earlier. I really appreciate everyone's input. Just one point as I'm at work (was on vacation) and haven't had a chance to read everything as yet.

We, as customers, were not being unreasonable or picky. We simply asked to change the setting BEFORE the diamond was set. Instead it was set in the old setting.

More posts to follow...

 

[Team02]

More comments:

* The reason we were asking for another B&M to resize our ring is because we don't trust GOG in this area based on their past performance. As they say, it's all in the details.

* I'm not bring critical of Amy as a person (nothing against her and I understand she's your sister) but in dealing with us she was pushy, didn't hear us out and was late delivering the ring - bottomline.

* In my opinion, GOG sells the most well-documented, premium diamonds on the internet.

* No reason to worry about bad recommendations, b/c I wouldn't tell anyone where we got my fiancee's diamond from because it's awesome.

* While we were at GOG an old lady came in yelling about how she had come in 3 times to resize her ring to no avail. I thought her unreasonable then, but now I understand where she was coming from.

* Rhino - a phone call to apprise us that you were out, but "someone else will gladly assist" would have been nice - basic customer service. We set-up an appt to meet with you to make a relatively sizable purchase. This is not the reason I wrote my original post though (as you erroneously conclude) - see everything above.

Best Wishes All...

 

[fire&ice]

I have to admit. If I was unable to meet w/ a client, I would have called and said such.

 

[Rhino]

Thanks for your response Team02. Let me ask you this. Your appointment was for a Saturday and I didnt' get sick until Saturday morning. How was I to intercept you at that time as I was vomitting all over the place? I'm not trying to make any excuse here but I think you are being a bit unreasonable about this complaint. I could not foresee my sickness to call you early enough to let you know this.

 

[Team02]

I appreciate the expedited response, Rhino.

I think you're missing the point though with your response. Anyway, you were able to call in sick and apprise the store. The store should have let us and your other customers know (we probably would have still come in). Once again, this is not the main issue behind our dissatisfaction, but this maybe part of the service-related problem we experienced.

 

[Rhino]

Actually it wasn't me who called in that morning. My wife called for me as I was laid up in bed.

 

[Rhino]

Let me also take the time here to thank you for the kudo's as well Team02. I want you to know I didn't take your post the wrong way and if you note I had ended my response with a question to you on how you think we could have better served you. Please understand that there were some events that took place beyond our control. I hope you do not, for one moment doubt our intentions/sincereity towards you and not for one moment did we not have your best interests in mind. My sister did all she could to prevent the diamond from being set but was too late as she was helping you get it quickly (as you had originally indicated to her). It has already been set. Are we to blame Amy for that? Please keep in mind that it was not our intention for the setting company to delay us an extra week either. This is something that was beyond our control and I hope you do not hold this honest mistake against us personally. Were it in our control we would have had the setting made for you the next day (just as we had the diamond set for you as quickly as humanly possible). We did not think you would be so affected by this as you had so clearly stated to my sister (after you had changed your mind) that time was no longer of the essence. Did you not say this to my sister?




Kind regards,
Jonathan

 

[aljdewey]

Honestly, this is sounding a bit petty at this point, Team 02.




One of the members of the store (Jonathan) had an appointment with you. When it was determined that it probably wasn't a good idea for him to come in and puke all over you, the store was called and arrangements were made to cover your appointment. That's a fairly common practice in a number of businesses.




Were you disappointed? Sure you were,.....and I would be too....I'd want to meet Jonathan as well. But if I worked there, it would never cross my mind that you had to see him or *no one at all*.




I'm sorry, but it's NOT standard practice to cancel an appointment in a multi-employee shop if there is someone else who can keep the appointment.




Interesting that you note if the store *had* called, you'd have likely come in anyway. So, the complaint is mostly standing on ceremony, then, because the man was too busy puking to make a phone call to you?




Reading your response is very enlightening. It certainly does cast your "complaints" in a different light.