Organ Donation-What Do You Think About It?

[RaiKai]

Date: 4/27/2010 1:22:10 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk

Date: 4/27/2010 1:04:18 PM

Author: Smurfyimproved

Husband and I are both donors! I have a question, can they use your eyes even if you have the worst vision in the world? I mean I'm not blind, but my eye lens prescription is pretty horrific lol



eta: I'm also on the bone marrow donation list! It is as easy as donating plasma nowadays and so many people need it!

I was under the impression that a BM transplant required a very very painful procedure involving them drilling into your pelvis/hip. Has that changed?

It depends what the person needs. As they are looking for stem cells in many cases, they can in SOME cases use blood. However, often the donation requires the bone marrow itself (hence bone marrow donation). Which yes, IS a more painful procedure.

http://www.blood.ca/centreapps/internet/uw_v502_mainengine.nsf/page/E_ubmdrPKG-intro?opendocument&CloseMenu

 

[JSM]

Bone marrow donation is very painful. However, it is doable. I use donated human bone marrow as part of my research and I am immensely grateful to the volunteers.

A bit more than a year ago, we lost two of our graduate classmates (engaged, PhD track students) to a tragic car accident. Their organ and tissue donations helped the lives of 66 individuals. It helps to know that our friends do live on in others.

I will donate everything if I should die prematurely.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 4/27/2010 1:22:10 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk

Date: 4/27/2010 1:04:18 PM
Author: Smurfyimproved
Husband and I are both donors! I have a question, can they use your eyes even if you have the worst vision in the world? I mean I''m not blind, but my eye lens prescription is pretty horrific lol


eta: I''m also on the bone marrow donation list! It is as easy as donating plasma nowadays and so many people need it!

I was under the impression that a BM transplant required a very very painful procedure involving them drilling into your pelvis/hip. Has that changed?

I don''t know about BM transplant, but a BM biopsy is very painful. They remove both fluid and marrow samples, so they have to go into the hip twice. I would really like to never have to go through that again.

 

[annadragon]

You guys are aware that being labeled an organ donor on your license is not a binding contract for organ donation, right?
Depending upon the conditions of your death it is your family - spouse or parents, closet relative, etc in some cases that have to give consent for organ donation.
If you are well aware that you are dying and you have all the correct documents drawn up you are more likely to have your organs donated, but I think and it may vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but even those documents can be abrogated.
If in other circumstances you die quite without warning, let''s say you have a stroke and you''ve been put on life support and your family decides to pull the plug. In this case the medical staff has to approach the family while they are bereaved and distraught and ask about donating your organs. Some families are too distraught to make that decision, some aren''t willing, some are very happy to comply with your wishes if you''ve expressed them. But what I can definitely tell you is not once in many years of emergency room and emergency services work have I ever seen anyone root around in personal effects for a drivers license to check for "organ donor" stamped on it. So I''m actually unsure what the purpose of that is other than a feel good measure. Yes, I have those little red words stamped on mine.

I however have a very different take on organ donation. I think people should be able to sell their organs. If you are dying and you want to legally contract with a company that specializes in transplants and have money paid to your estate you should be able to do that. If you are a healthy person with many years of life you should be compensated for your kidney, your time and your efforts.

We run around pretending it is so morally reprehensible to be paid for a such transaction, but I think it is more reprehensible that we disallow competent people to contract to sell their organs, which does two things:
1) It lowers the amount of organs available in the marketplace, thereby making them a scarce resource in high demand but exorbitantly priced.
2) And it creates a thriving black market where people don''t have contractual obligations or rights and are very much exploited. I mean it''s tough to enforce the terms of a contract if what you are doing is illegal, heck it''s tough to even get a contract

Also, I wanted to point out donating organs and donating your body to science require two distinctly different pathways. Dead people by decree of your Will or family can be donated to science, med school students, etc pretty easily cause dead is dead. And med schools and others who use cadavers pay for them. But I don''t think the estate gets paid. I could be wrong.
However, for organ donation to be successful, in the case of a dead person - they must be kept alive. Not all organs require immediate removal for them to be viable -hearts definitely do because they will obtain rigor mortis conditions very quickly. I don''t know the timeframe for other organs, but think about how difficult and how costly it is to keep a dead person alive. I don''t think organ selling in the sense of healthy, living people is the answer in this case, but I have to wonder what other system could be innovated to circumvent the challenges presented by this.

 

[annadragon]

Date: 4/27/2010 12:58:23 PM
Author: VegasAngel
Yes I am registered.


I''ve read stories of Dr.''s pressuring families to pull a person off life support when they are organ donors any truth to that.?

I know I wrote half a novel in my other post but to address this specifically most doc''s don''t know your organ donation status. Furthermore, even if you aren''t a donor by decree of driver license stamp your family can make you one at your death revoke it just as easily.

 

[Upgradable]

Yup, since 1980, though no one has taken me up on it yet.

If you are willing to donate, PLEASE TELL YOUR LOVED ONES!!! They are the ultimate decision makers in the end. Even if you''ve got directives in place, a legal guardian or spouse can over-ride those at the time.

I''ve told everyone I loved that if I''m with them in the end, as soon as they''re gone I''m giving them away... lock, stock, and smoking barrel!

 

[somethingshiny]

Someone asked about eye donation if you wear glasses. YES, you can donate your corneas even if you wear glasses, have cataracts, or some eye diseases!! If your eyes happen to be "unusable" for transplant, they can still be used for research.

 

[VegasAngel]

Thanks for answering.

Date: 4/27/2010 1:34:34 PM
Author: annadragon

Date: 4/27/2010 12:58:23 PM
Author: VegasAngel
Yes I am registered.


I''ve read stories of Dr.''s pressuring families to pull a person off life support when they are organ donors any truth to that.?

I know I wrote half a novel in my other post but to address this specifically most doc''s don''t know your organ donation status. Furthermore, even if you aren''t a donor by decree of driver license stamp your family can make you one at your death revoke it just as easily.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 4/27/2010 1:32:02 PM
Author: annadragon
You guys are aware that being labeled an organ donor on your license is not a binding contract for organ donation, right?

Depending upon the conditions of your death it is your family - spouse or parents, closet relative, etc in some cases that have to give consent for organ donation.

If you are well aware that you are dying and you have all the correct documents drawn up you are more likely to have your organs donated, but I think and it may vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but even those documents can be abrogated.

If in other circumstances you die quite without warning, let's say you have a stroke and you've been put on life support and your family decides to pull the plug. In this case the medical staff has to approach the family while they are bereaved and distraught and ask about donating your organs. Some families are too distraught to make that decision, some aren't willing, some are very happy to comply with your wishes if you've expressed them. But what I can definitely tell you is not once in many years of emergency room and emergency services work have I ever seen anyone root around in personal effects for a drivers license to check for 'organ donor' stamped on it. So I'm actually unsure what the purpose of that is other than a feel good measure. Yes, I have those little red words stamped on mine.

I however have a very different take on organ donation. I think people should be able to sell their organs. If you are dying and you want to legally contract with a company that specializes in transplants and have money paid to your estate you should be able to do that. If you are a healthy person with many years of life you should be compensated for your kidney, your time and your efforts.

We run around pretending it is so morally reprehensible to be paid for a such transaction, but I think it is more reprehensible that we disallow competent people to contract to sell their organs, which does two things:

1) It lowers the amount of organs available in the marketplace, thereby making them a scarce resource in high demand but exorbitantly priced.

2) And it creates a thriving black market where people don't have contractual obligations or rights and are very much exploited. I mean it's tough to enforce the terms of a contract if what you are doing is illegal, heck it's tough to even get a contract

Also, I wanted to point out donating organs and donating your body to science require two distinctly different pathways. Dead people by decree of your Will or family can be donated to science, med school students, etc pretty easily cause dead is dead. And med schools and others who use cadavers pay for them. But I don't think the estate gets paid. I could be wrong.

However, for organ donation to be successful, in the case of a dead person - they must be kept alive. Not all organs require immediate removal for them to be viable -hearts definitely do because they will obtain rigor mortis conditions very quickly. I don't know the timeframe for other organs, but think about how difficult and how costly it is to keep a dead person alive. I don't think organ selling in the sense of healthy, living people is the answer in this case, but I have to wonder what other system could be innovated to circumvent the challenges presented by this.

The bolded statement is incorrect. In almost all states, the driver's license is legally binding. UNOS.org link Also, dead patients are not "kept alive"-once you are declared brain dead you are legally dead. The body is kept on life support in order to keep the organs viable while they are being tested and matches are located. Typically patients who are organ donors are not kept on life support machines longer than 24 hours. When a patient is brain dead the organs deteriorate rapidly and need to be transplanted as quickly as possible.

Also, to VegasAngel-doctors are not involved in requesting organ donation at the hospital. Also, if a patient is going to be able to donate, they actually MUST be kept on life supports for the organs to be viable.

Edited to make it 100% accurate and to add the link to which states consider the driver's license legally binding.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I want them to use every bit of my body if they possibly can!

 

[annadragon]

Aha! Thing2 I just found that same link you posted. You are right it is legally binding in most states. I just realized that where I worked, Florida, the legislation wasn''t passed until 2003. I must be getting old

To address the part about "being kept alive" that was probably a misuse of the term on my part. But they are kept on life support as you say and in some cases it is hard as hell to do. Corneas don''t require life support measures. I was more getting at a way to preserve the organs without having to keep them on life support but to prevent the deterioration until the harvest team arrives. I think it makes for an interesting challenge to biomedical science.

 

[Smurfysmiles]

Wow I was really misled when asked to sign up then, The first thing I said was "I heard this is really painful, is that true?" Their response "No it''s as simple as giving blood or donating plasma, sometimes easier" So i thought well that''s no problem, I''d gladly do that and so signed up...Might have to do some more research although I''d feel like a bit of a jerk for backing out

 

[princesss]

Date: 4/27/2010 3:15:16 PM
Author: Smurfyimproved
Wow I was really misled when asked to sign up then, The first thing I said was ''I heard this is really painful, is that true?'' Their response ''No it''s as simple as giving blood or donating plasma, sometimes easier'' So i thought well that''s no problem, I''d gladly do that and so signed up...Might have to do some more research although I''d feel like a bit of a jerk for backing out

It may well be a very simple procedure - just very, very painful.

I''d donate marrow to loved ones in a heartbeat, but selfish as it may be, I have a lot of trouble going through something that painful for somebody I have no connection to. Awful? Probably. But true.

jsm - That story is incredible. It''s horrible to have lost them so young, but amazing that they were able to help 66 people. 66! I just can''t get over it. I''d be happy with 1....

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I''m a registered organ donor, if you need it you can have it! I used to work at Macy''s and my old boss, who I loved, was saved by a liver transplant. After hearing the story of her ordeal it sealed it for me. I can only hope that my parts will actually be useful to other people when I don''t need them anymore.

 

[kama_s]

Date: 4/27/2010 1:22:10 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk

Date: 4/27/2010 1:04:18 PM

Author: Smurfyimproved

Husband and I are both donors! I have a question, can they use your eyes even if you have the worst vision in the world? I mean I''m not blind, but my eye lens prescription is pretty horrific lol



eta: I''m also on the bone marrow donation list! It is as easy as donating plasma nowadays and so many people need it!

I was under the impression that a BM transplant required a very very painful procedure involving them drilling into your pelvis/hip. Has that changed?

You''re right. Read my post on this subject on the first page of this topic.

Smurfy, maybe you should read a little more on what you signed up for?

 

[kama_s]

Date: 4/27/2010 3:15:16 PM
Author: Smurfyimproved
Wow I was really misled when asked to sign up then, The first thing I said was ''I heard this is really painful, is that true?'' Their response ''No it''s as simple as giving blood or donating plasma, sometimes easier'' So i thought well that''s no problem, I''d gladly do that and so signed up...Might have to do some more research although I''d feel like a bit of a jerk for backing out

Did you sign up to be a PERIPHERAL stem cell donor???

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 4/27/2010 12:49:03 PM
Author: SapphireLover
HH- I think there is a difference between can''t and won''t though. Obviously there are people who can''t due to genetics/ having had blood transfusions etc, but there are some people who choose not to donate, but would happily take an organ. Can''t and won''t are two very different things. I think Pandora was referring to people who won''t donate, not can''t donate (Pandora- correct me if I am wrong!)

Correct.

People who ''won''t'' rather than ''can''t'' are what I am referring to, and I''m also referring to organs taken after your death. I am excluding things like sperm/egg donation as I think there are a lot of extra things to think about when it involves creating a new life that would have your genetic ID (I''ve always thought it very hard that you can get IVF treatment for reduced cost here if you will donate eggs - it sometimes results that the donor cannot get pregnant using her own eggs, but someone who she donated to has a child. It must be desparately hard to know that a child that has half of your genes has been born to someone else and yet you have no child. Not saying that you have to have a genetic child to love them just as much, or that having a genetic child makes you a great parent... but I''m sure most people know what I am meaning...)

I presume that if your religion/morals preclude you from donating an organ then it also precludes you from accepting one. If not, or you just ''don''t like the idea'' then I do think it''s pretty selfish and I do despise their outlook on it. People are free to disagree with me, just as I am free to think the way I do about it.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 4/27/2010 12:53:45 PM
Author: risingsun

Date: 4/27/2010 12:49:03 PM
Author: SapphireLover
HH- I think there is a difference between can't and won't though. Obviously there are people who can't due to genetics/ having had blood transfusions etc, but there are some people who choose not to donate, but would happily take an organ. Can't and won't are two very different things. I think Pandora was referring to people who won't donate, not can't donate (Pandora- correct me if I am wrong!)

I completely understand the scenario Pandora is describing. Now I have a question for you. If someone refused to be an organ donor and, at some point in their life, they became an organ donor recipient, would you despise them? That is the issue with which I am concerned.

If they continued to feel that they would never wish to be a donor then I would be pretty appalled and I would continue to despise their attitude.

Big difference BTW between despising someone and despising their attitude.

 

[kenny]

Whew.
I was afraid this thread might be about sex change operations.

 

[sparklyheart]

Huge fan of organ donation here. My dad has long struggled with a genetic disease and he was fortunate enough to get a liver transplant after deteriorating so badly. While I am all in favor of donating organs, I think it is a very personal decision and should not be pushed onto someone. When a person is dying in the hospital, the family is approached by the organ donation organization. That is such an emotional time and I completely understand how it would be hard to "give up" part of your loved one. Even when a family is told their loved one is brain dead, they do not always comprehend what that means. At that moment, you are not always thinking of the people you will save but only of the person you are losing. I respect both sides of that coin.

As far as selling organs goes, heck no! I am completely against that. People would be donating kidneys left and right just to make a buck. Families would also be pawning out their loved ones organ for a buck. It just seems so wrong. I don''t think rich people should get organs more often than poor people and that is exactly what would happen. There is already such a financial strain involved with receiving an organ (medications, future complications, doctor visits, etc) that poorer people would have no chance of paying for everything if they had to pay a premium for their organ up front. What happens when, as someone else said, you get an organ that later becomes cancerous? Do you sue the donor/donor''s family? Sue the surgeon because he/she "should have known"? Even though I''m sure there would be contracts involved, there are always ways around those. Oh what a sue-happy country the USA is...

 

[risingsun]

Date: 4/27/2010 6:05:19 PM
Author: Pandora II

Date: 4/27/2010 12:53:45 PM
Author: risingsun

Date: 4/27/2010 12:49:03 PM
Author: SapphireLover
HH- I think there is a difference between can''t and won''t though. Obviously there are people who can''t due to genetics/ having had blood transfusions etc, but there are some people who choose not to donate, but would happily take an organ. Can''t and won''t are two very different things. I think Pandora was referring to people who won''t donate, not can''t donate (Pandora- correct me if I am wrong!)

I completely understand the scenario Pandora is describing. Now I have a question for you. If someone refused to be an organ donor and, at some point in their life, they became an organ donor recipient, would you despise them? That is the issue with which I am concerned.

If they continued to feel that they would never wish to be a donor then I would be pretty appalled and I would continue to despise their attitude.

Big difference BTW between despising someone and despising their attitude.

I think despising someone''s attitude is a very strong stance to take. I can understand disappointed, disillusioned, dismayed...but despised? I reserve that for heinous behavior. I don''t think this rises to that level. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Amandine]

Absolutely! My sister had cystic fibrosis, and was close to being placed on the transplant list when she passed away, so this is very important to me (and my family).

 

[PumpkinPie]

I don''t know any recipients, but I am absolutely an organ donor (as is my husband). It''s a given for me- such an easy decision and I have no beliefs that would get in the way. I will not need them in the future, but I hope someone does!

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Date: 4/27/2010 12:58:23 PM
Author: VegasAngel
Yes I am registered.


I''ve read stories of Dr.''s pressuring families to pull a person off life support when they are organ donors any truth to that.?

I have never seen that, the only case I was involved in the patient met criteria for brain death and the parents were having some trouble accepting that. The patient was left on support for a few days while they were dealing with the shock. They were approached about organ donation once, and when they said "no" it was not brought up again. Often times, it is getting the families to understand that just because they have a heart rate and a pulse does not mean they are alive. Part of the grieving process is denial, and they need to realize that their loved one is not going to wake up and recover.

I have herd of cases where a patient has a serous enough neurological injury that they will not survive off life support, but do not meet criteria for brain death. In that case, they would have to withdraw support in the OR, but they cannot take organs until the patient is pronounced. That is not ideal because the organs can be injured. If someone meets criteria for brain death (which the criteria are very strict) than you can take the organs on life support.

But I can''t say it has never happened. There is an organization (The gift of life foundation) who is supposed to oversee the whole process. They are in charge of figuring out if the patient is a suitable donor, and are in charge of approaching the family. Part of what they do is keep the process ethical. They wait for the doctor to make the decision about the patient''s prognosis before they approach the family. If one family member says yes, and another says no, than the patient will not be an organ donor. If the patient has a sticker on his driver''s license, and the family says no, they will go with the family. They don''t want accusations that the family was forced into the decision against their will. If a family says no they thank them for their time and walk away. What they have told me is they are already going through a difficult time, and they don''t want to make it worse.

They also specifically asked us not to mention it to the family. There is a right way to approach the subject which they are trained to do. The medical professions can say the wrong things at the wrong time which can make it more difficult to approach the family later.

 

[4ever]

I am a doner, it''s maked on my licence but in NZ I know that this is just taken as an indication of your wishes and if the time comes it''s totally up to your family. They know I would want them to take anything and everything could be used by another person because I would no longer require it and it could really help someone else. It''s not "me" it''s just my body.

 

[megumic]

Date: 4/27/2010 6:30:52 PM
Author: kenny
Whew.

I was afraid this thread might be about sex change operations.

Yikes. What''s wrong with sex change operations?

 

[megumic]

Date: 4/27/2010 7:47:19 AM
Author: kama_s


I can''t put myself on the marrow list though, I''m not sure if I''m giving enough to go through that pain and loss of days. A BM transplant is not an outpatient procedure that you recover from instantly. I would donate marrow to to family however. Especially with all the advances made in peripheral stem cell transplant, only a very small proportion get bone marrow transplant these days.

Not all BM transplants are harsh and invasive. Often the patient in need of a transplant just needs a peripheral blood stem cell (PBSC) donation, which is non-surgical. The other form of donation, is in fact surgical, as you mentioned.

Also, straight from www.marrow.org
MYTH:
Donating is painful and involves a long recovery.

FACT:

There can be uncomfortable but short-lived side effects of donating PBSC. Due to taking a drug called filgrastim for five days leading up to donation, PBSC donors may have headaches, joint or muscle aches, or fatigue. PBSC donors are typically back to their normal routine in one to two days.
Those donating marrow receive general or regional anesthesia, so they feel no pain during donation. Marrow donors can expect to feel some soreness in their lower back for one to two weeks afterward. Most marrow donors are back to their normal activities in two to seven days.

Also, FYI Smurfy if you (a registered donor) become a match, you can change your mind. Becoming a registered donor is non-binding. However, I can imagine if I received a phone call that I was someone''s match, there are few and limited circumstances when I''d say no. I''m sure most would agree...what is more perfect in life than a call that you have the power to potentially save someone else''s life, with something growing plentiful in your body on a regular basis?

 

[Blackpaw]

im all for it... im on the bone marrow transplant list in oz, but have had no takers...which they told me is not uncommon, a match is very rare. I know its very painful but i think it would be a great thing to be able to help a stranger, as much for yourself as for them...

 

[Haven]

Bone marrow donation is extremely painful, but such a wonderful thing to do.

Our very good friend died of Multiple Myeloma, but not until after his brother donated bone marrow to him and prolonged his life for several months. His brother said it was worth the pain, of course, but that it was very, very painful.

 

[Lynnie]

I''m all for organ donation. I work with kidney and liver recipients often, and it''s just amazing how quickly the body can adjust to its *new* part!

However, I admit that *sometimes* I''m a little disturbed by the ethicality of it all...
We had a patient receive a liver transplant after she OD''d on Tylenol (attempted suicide).
We had a patient die after waiting for 6 years for her liver transplant (she never got it). She had contracted Hepatitis from a blood transfusion in the 80''s when she had a c-section.

I''m just glad I''m not the one who decides who gets what.

Interesting concept - selling organs. I don''t see the problem there... I mean, people are compensated for their eggs/sperm, right?