Optimum Depth - Fancies; Confused!

[NYDiamond]

I guess I''m most confused about the optimum depth on fancy stones. I note from the chart on Gem Appraisers that the best cut fancies are a depth of 59% - 63%, yet I see stones like the one below advertised by usacerteddiamonds.com on the pricecope search, priced at top dollar and falling into a class 3B Cut Category. In that case, who would buy this stone? I realized that the stone is IF but since everyone seems to agree that CUT is most important, I''m confused.

Stock Number 1233103
Certificate GIA
Cut OVAL
Carat 3.02
Color D
Clarity IF
Price $ 68,638.42
Price per Carat $ 22,727.95
Measurements 12.1 x 8.08 x 4.5 mm
Depth Percentage 55.7 %
Table Percentage 58 %
Crown Angle
Pavilion Percentage %
Pavilion Angle
Girdle MD-TK
Culet VS
Polish VERY GOOD
Symmetry GOOD
Fluorescence NONE

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Hi NY. The old rule of economics always enters the picture when cutting a diamond from the original crystal.

The 3.02 you listed is a good example. What the cutter did in this instance is opt for a 3 carat stone with "fair to good" proportions instead of say, a 2.50 carat stone with "ideal" proportions.

The simple fact is that a 3.02 D/IF oval with a "fair to good" cut is worth dramatically more than a 2.50 D/IF oval with an "ideal cut".

There are many buyers out there for stones like this. A lot of people don't put as much stock in cut as do the dealers and consumers you'll run across in here. They might prefer size over cut, for example.

If you stick with that 59-63% rule of thumb, you'll generally stay out of trouble, unless you like going against popular opinion and are willing to judge for yourself if you like the look of a stone whose profile falls out of these parameters. Personally, I've seen thousands of stones that do, and still look fantastic.

The only problem though, if you "go against the crowd", is upon resale of a diamond. You know it looks good, even though it falls out of the traditional profile, but many people will refer to that profile when looking to purchase. This decreases the pool of interested buyers for your stone, making it not as liquid as one that fits the popular profile.

 

[NYDiamond]

Thanks Richard for your clear and concise response. Not being a professional I do not have the necessary confidence to judge the fire, brilliance & scintillation. If you run a shallow cut fancy through a Brilliance Scope, would the report clear up those issues? Also, is there any value in running a fancy through a megascope?

 

[oldminer]

When real measurements of light return are taken, you'd find that diamonds of many varying depths have excellent brilliancy. However, it takes more than high light return to make a fancy shape a superior diamonds. The MOST IMPORTANT hing about a fancy shape diamond is the pleasing nature of its shape and outline, never its depth percentage.
Secondly, light return alone is not going to dictate a superior cut stone.

One must look at all the factors BEFORE making the final judgment of what is an IDEAL cut fancy shape. Yes, it must have high ligth return and yes, it must also have a wonderful shape and outline. BOTH of these things are important parts of determining what makes an IDEAL cut fancy.

The AGA charts I developed over the years give the parameters in which the best shapes and depths occur to make the outlines and cuts the nicest. Now, add in the determination of brilliancy, scintillation and dispersion. Then you can finally know when you have an Ideal Cut in a fancy shape.

Stones that are overly deep may indeed "look" superb, but, in fact, they suffer from not enough diameter for their weight. You may select a deep stone for purchase, but don't be fooled by a seller's story or a false belief that it is superior in quality to all others.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

The three best tools to judge the light performance of a fancy are the BrillianceScope, the IdealScope, and your eyes (comparing it with other stones).

A Sarin or Megascope report will give a professional an idea of how the stone looks visually, but will be greek to the consumer.

For example, I can tell from the depth of the oval listed that it's going to have a broken-up, "shimmering" light reflection pattern under the table versus the more defined scintillation contrast of a traditional depth stone.

Many people however are fond of this "shimmering" pattern. Even though it's not considered the optimum reflection pattern by purists, it has an idiosyncratic beauty all it's own, and sells fairly well.

These things will help you in the weeding out process of internet stones: Good digital photos, IdealScope photos and BrillianceScope reports. If they don't have those, Sarin or Megascope numbers will help somewhat in eliminating stones which fall out of the "traditional profile", and you can concentrate on the segment of stones which probably have a higher percentage of well performing candidates.

When you get down to the nitty-gritty, a savvy appraiser can help you stay out of trouble. If you make the final purchase contingent upon the stone checking out to your satisfaction with an independent appraiser, you can't lose.

 

[NYDiamond]

Oldminer, how about shallow stones (56% depth), does the same hold true?

Are you familar with any Manhattan appraisers that include a brilliancescope as part of their appraisial?

 

[NYDiamond]

Richard, thanks again for your informative response. Having been involved in the computer industry for more years than I care to mention, I love computer printouts. Ideally if I got a brilliancescope read out and a good appraisal, (are you familiar with Dave Wolf at Just Appraisers in New York?) that would do the trick. Do you know of anyone in Manhattan that does Brilliancescopes?

Thanks Again.

 

[nht]

----------------
On 7/27/2003 12

8:57 PM Richard Sherwood wrote:

The only problem though, if you "go against the crowd", is upon resale of a diamond. You know it looks good, even though it falls out of the traditional profile, but many people will refer to that profile when looking to purchase. This decreases the pool of interested buyers for your stone, making it not as liquid as one that fits the popular profile.
----------------

Er, I was under the impression that there was no real resale market except maybe ebay and trade in with the original jeweler.

-n

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Ideally if I got a brilliancescope read out and a
good appraisal, (are you familiar with Dave Wolf at
Just Appraisers in New York?) that would do the
trick. Do you know of anyone in Manhattan that does
Brilliancescopes?
-----------

The name is familiar, but I don't know anything about him (Dave Wolf). You might find out more info by calling 3 or 4 respected jewelers in his area, and asking their opinion of his expertise.

You might also try contacting Gemex (the BrillianceScope company) at 262-242-1111 to ask who has their equipment in Manhattan.

I know that Barry at SuperbCert has one. Although they are not appraisers, he might run a report for you if he's not too busy.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

-----------
Er, I was under the impression that there was no
real resale market except maybe ebay and trade in
with the original jeweler.
-----------

NHT, you hear that impression bandied about quite a bit, but in actuality there is a HUGE resale market for diamonds and fine jewelry.

Look at Christies & Sothebys. They are entirely resellers. In addition to the major auction houses, there are "triple A" minor auction houses and an extensive network of local and regional auction houses.

There's also estate jewelers whose entire business is reselling jewelry, many of whom will do it for you on consignment, netting you the wholesale value and keeping the retail profit. I did this for nineteen years, and moved millions of dollars of jewelry and gemstones for private individuals.

Then there's the resale business done between private individuals through the local classifieds. They use appraisals as a selling tool, and then price their jewelry competitively. They ask significantly less than what the item would go for in a retail store, yet more than what a jeweler would pay them (cash or consignment).

Consumers in the market for a diamond are more than happy to pick one up for less than they'd have to pay in a jewelry store. It happens every day.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Hey NY, I remember now why David Wolf's name is familiar. He wrote an article for Chubb on the Asscher Cut that I had read quite a while ago.

Here's a copy of the blurb which was attached to the article:

>>>>>David Wolf, founder of Just Appraisers, is a gems and jewelry consultant and practices out of two laboratories (608 5th avenue, New York, NY and Florham Park, NJ). Mr. Wolf is a Senior Member with the American Society of Appraisers and has been awarded the Master Gemologist Appraiser degree. Certified in the Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice, Mr. Wolf is a consultant to the legal community as recommended by TASA, the Technical Advisory Service to Attorneys. He is also a professional appraiser to the general public.<<<<<

Sounds like he knows what he's doing.