Opinions wanted on this Padparadscha

[Gallant]

Hi all. After returning that pink sapphire I bought from Sri Lanka with the terrible bow-tie, I found this one. Here are the stats:

2.29ct
9.08x7.60x4.31mm
AGL certified Pad - Heated - Orange-Pink
No origin report - seller claims Sri Lanka (I know - take it with a grain of salt)
Re-cut by Dan Stair
Medium saturated
Even coloration
Eye clean
Very clear - no cloudiness that I can see
No color zoning that I can see when looking at it heads-up
No bow-tie
No center window
There are side-windows (seen in photo #10)
No shadowing when looking at it heads-up
Sparkles are red
Deep reflections are cool salmon
Extremely lively. Blindingly in the sun. If one of those red sparkles hits your eye just right you'll have floaters.

As you all know, it's extremely difficult to photograph colored stones. This stone is no exception. The best way I can describe the color is salmon.

Photo number 7 seems to come closest to what the true color of the Pad is (the light color in the center-right). All of the other photos the color is a little off. It's not violet or purple, like some photos show, and it's not pure pink. It's not orange. And there's no brown at all.

Two questions:

1. What's it worth? (After I get enough feedback on this I'll let you know what I paid for it. I don't want to skew your estimates yet)
2. How can I make it be perceived as a little more orangish?

#1

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#8

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#10

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#17

 

[Gallant]

Here's a video of the stone, shot outdoors in the shade. The color is close to accurate. It does show some color zoning, but the stone is actually very evenly saturated.

**edited by moderator, please no personal videos for everyone's security and privacy**

 

[T L]

It looks African. Origin report is necessary on this one if its expensive.

 

[Gallant]

It wasn't expensive, but I really am not that concerned about where it's from. I realize that Ceylon will fetch the best re-sale value.

Just being certified a Pad is the most important to me.

What do you think I should have paid for it?

 

[jordyonbass]

My inexperienced eye is seeing windows in pics other than #10 (14, 16 17) but it could very well be the potato quality of my computer screen lol.
If it were me then I'd be looking at this stone in person before making any kind of decision about it.

 

[Gallant]

What you're seeing are just reflections off of the surface.

There are side-windows if you look at the stone from an angle, as in picture #10. But heads-up straight on there is no window.

I have the stone on hand and I have a few days to decide if I should keep it.

 

[jordyonbass]

Hi Gallant,

I had a feeling they may have been tilt windows, I'm just using a computer today with some of the wrost resolution I have seen since Windows 95 so I had trouble being able to tell . If the price is right and you love the colour - then it's a good buy (as anyone on PS will tell you).

If you look at a thread recently from this forum, a member has purchased a pad a little larger than yours mounted in a ring and has published the price. I'd recommend having a look at that thread, the prices and the comments of some of the CS forums unofficial 'experts' before making a judgment on price. You may not get an exact figure for the value of the stone, but you will get an idea on whether the price listed for yours is fair or not.

 

[mochiko42]

I think this is the one I was considering a while back. Thank you for the additional photos, it's very informative!

 

[Gallant]

Yes Mochiko, I saw your thread after I bought it. You were considering it at $8,000 weren't you? But you weren't sure if it was orange enough?

 

[Gallant]

Hi Gallant,

I had a feeling they may have been tilt windows, I'm just using a computer today with some of the wrost resolution I have seen since Windows 95 so I had trouble being able to tell . If the price is right and you love the colour - then it's a good buy (as anyone on PS will tell you).

If you look at a thread recently from this forum, a member has purchased a pad a little larger than yours mounted in a ring and has published the price. I'd recommend having a look at that thread, the prices and the comments of some of the CS forums unofficial 'experts' before making a judgment on price. You may not get an exact figure for the value of the stone, but you will get an idea on whether the price listed for yours is fair or not.

Are you referring to the Leon ring? If so, it's hard to judge the price of the stone alone because it's in a rather nice setting, and I have no idea how much that setting is worth

 

[jordyonbass]

Hi Gallant,

I had a feeling they may have been tilt windows, I'm just using a computer today with some of the wrost resolution I have seen since Windows 95 so I had trouble being able to tell . If the price is right and you love the colour - then it's a good buy (as anyone on PS will tell you).

If you look at a thread recently from this forum, a member has purchased a pad a little larger than yours mounted in a ring and has published the price. I'd recommend having a look at that thread, the prices and the comments of some of the CS forums unofficial 'experts' before making a judgment on price. You may not get an exact figure for the value of the stone, but you will get an idea on whether the price listed for yours is fair or not.

Are you referring to the Leon ring? If so, it's hard to judge the price of the stone alone because it's in a rather nice setting, and I have no idea how much that setting is worth

Yep, that's the one!

Obviously you can see how hard it is to valuate jewelry, by pics it is even harder. As far as the Leon pad goes, IIRC the stone is just over 3 carats, very high quality and comes with an AGL report. The OP reported that it was listed for $18k but she got it on a pinch for $12k. I can't remember who mentioned it but they gave it a very crude breakdown in pricing of being $10k stone/$2k setting. So it's a starting point for you at least

 

[Gallant]

Here's a video of the stone, shot outdoors in the shade. The color is close to accurate. It does show some color zoning, but the stone is actually very evenly saturated.

**edited by moderator, please no personal videos for everyone's security and privacy**

I don't understand how a Youtube video risks everybody's security and privacy.

How should I post the video?

 

[Ella]

Here's a video of the stone, shot outdoors in the shade. The color is close to accurate. It does show some color zoning, but the stone is actually very evenly saturated.

**edited by moderator, please no personal videos for everyone's security and privacy**

I don't understand how a Youtube video risks everybody's security and privacy.

How should I post the video?

Usernames that link to facebook, real names, etc. can very easily lead people to your home. You have then discussed your thousands of dollars of jewelry in detail here. It's not a good combination.

We don't allow videos at this point, sorry for the inconvenience. We are working on a way to host them on PS but that isn't feasible yet.

 

[Gallant]

Hi Gallant,

I had a feeling they may have been tilt windows, I'm just using a computer today with some of the wrost resolution I have seen since Windows 95 so I had trouble being able to tell . If the price is right and you love the colour - then it's a good buy (as anyone on PS will tell you).

If you look at a thread recently from this forum, a member has purchased a pad a little larger than yours mounted in a ring and has published the price. I'd recommend having a look at that thread, the prices and the comments of some of the CS forums unofficial 'experts' before making a judgment on price. You may not get an exact figure for the value of the stone, but you will get an idea on whether the price listed for yours is fair or not.

Are you referring to the Leon ring? If so, it's hard to judge the price of the stone alone because it's in a rather nice setting, and I have no idea how much that setting is worth

Yep, that's the one!

Obviously you can see how hard it is to valuate jewelry, by pics it is even harder. As far as the Leon pad goes, IIRC the stone is just over 3 carats, very high quality and comes with an AGL report. The OP reported that it was listed for $18k but she got it on a pinch for $12k. I can't remember who mentioned it but they gave it a very crude breakdown in pricing of being $10k stone/$2k setting. So it's a starting point for you at least

Yeah, you have a good point about evaluating gems from pics alone. Even pricing a stone on carats is tough too.

I thought that setting was worth more since the similar halo setting I'm looking at is around $1,400 with much smaller diamonds. I was thinking the setting might be worth $3-4,000. My stone is wider than the Leon but shorter and shallower, and almost a full carat less. And I've read that sapphires go up in value exponentially after 2 carats. So if the setting is worth $3,000 and the stone is $9,000, that would make it $2,893/ct. I don't know if that's an unreasonable price.

 

[mochiko42]

Hi Gallant, it was reduced to $7k when I was looking at it. I hope you got a good deal for it. I decided I wanted something that was a little more orange and a little more lighter in tone. (Also, I have so many other projects going on, plus the HK gem show is tomorrow so I will check out the pads there.)

It's difficult to judge a stone solely by photos, so how do you feel about the stone in person? Do you love it, or are you still undecided whether to keep it or not? The color that it shows in your video looks quite nice to my eyes. I hope it's all that you are looking for in a pad sapphire!

ETA: I don't think you will find a decent pad with AGL or other reputable lab report under $3k/carat.

 

[Gallant]

Hi Gallant, it was reduced to $7k when I was looking at it. I hope you got a good deal for it. I decided I wanted something that was a little more orange and a little more lighter in tone. (Also, I have so many other projects going on, plus the HK gem show is tomorrow so I will check out the pads there.)

It's difficult to judge a stone solely by photos, so how do you feel about the stone in person? Do you love it, or are you still undecided whether to keep it or not? The color that it shows in your video looks quite nice to my eyes. I hope it's all that you are looking for in a pad sapphire!

ETA: I don't think you will find a decent pad with AGL or other reputable lab report under $3k/carat.

I've seen about 40 Pads in person. There is only one other Pad that I've found that was a nicer stone, and that's a stone I found in Beverly Hills that's $6,200 with a 9.9mm face length GIA certed. That stone sparkled orange. This stone sparkles red. And I really want a stone that sparkles orange.

I like this stone though, and it's really beautiful. It's so hard to find a lively elongated Pad with no bow-tie or window or shadowing, over 8.5mm in face length, all under my budget.

It's just a little more pink than what I wanted though, so I'm mulling it over. But then again, I read one veteran here on PS say that good Pads are very hard to find, so when you come across one in your budget, you should buy it, because another good one might not come around for a long time!

 

[Marlow]

From your pictures I like it very much - a bit more orange would be great. but really beautiful....

Whether it is a Sri Lanka, burmese or Madagascar pad ... not important in a heated stone in my opinion.
( Madagascar is not "Africa" !!! - much closer to Sri Lanka!!)

 

[Gallant]

From your pictures I like it very much - a bit more orange would be great. but really beautiful....

Whether it is a Sri Lanka, burmese or Madagascar pad ... not important in a heated stone in my opinion.
( Madagascar is not "Africa" !!! - much closer to Sri Lanka!!)

Agreed!

 

[Niel]

That setting is nowhere hear 2k. Closer to 4 for that Leon.

 

[chrono]

Medium saturated
And there's no brown at all.

These two descriptors are contradictory. If it is of medium saturation, there WILL be some brown. If there is no brown, then the level of saturation will be vivid. It looks quite pink in your video so it is up to you whether this is a keeper or not. Buy the stone, NOT the paper (although having the paper lets you know roughly how much to pay for it). As for the Leon ring, my guess is that the setting alone is around $4K to $5K.

 

[Gallant]

Medium saturated
And there's no brown at all.

These two descriptors are contradictory. If it is of medium saturation, there WILL be some brown. If there is no brown, then the level of saturation will be vivid. It looks quite pink in your video so it is up to you whether this is a keeper or not. Buy the stone, NOT the paper (although having the paper lets you know roughly how much to pay for it). As for the Leon ring, my guess is that the setting alone is around $4K to $5K.

I apologize, the "medium saturated" is my own layman's term.

OK, with the Leon, the buyer paid about $2,250/ct if the setting is worth $5k. I paid $1,965/ct - $4,500 total.

More background on the stone:

I was looking at various Pad videos on Youtube and came across this one by luck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMHQ1C0JROw

I tracked down the poster, Jason Brim, and enquired about the stone. Apparently, a while back he tried to sell the stone (for a lot more money) for the owner but it never sold. He reconnected with the owner and sold it to me on his behalf.

Jason, by the way, is a great guy to deal with!

He never actually told me who the owner was (which is to expected), but after some serious digging I found that the stone was actually Jim McCormick's stone that was being advertised on LoupeTroop!:

http://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-colored-gemstone/star-star-sold-star-star-one-time-price-reduction-was-8000-dollars-dot-00-now-7000-dollars-dot-00-2-dot-29-cts-magnificent-agl

I had seen that listing before but $7,000 was way out of my price range. So when I got it for $4,500, I was pretty happy, but I was crossing my fingers that it was more orange than pictured in Jim's listing, because you can see orange in Jason's video.

Unfortunately, it is just a little more orange than Jim's photo, but not by much. Jason's video is not very accurate - Jim's video is closer.

Like I said, the stone is really beautiful and SUPER lively. I think I had so many problems photographing it because it's so lively.

My girlfriend doesn't like pink. But then again she has told me that she doesn't care at all what she has on her finger, so I'm really shopping for myself So I thought it would be really cool to tell her that she's wearing one of the most rarest stones in the world.


Now I've just come across this stone for $4,600 but needs to be memo'd in, so I haven't seen it in person yet, and I have no idea of it's quality:



**edited by moderator, last warning regarding personal videos**

 

[chrono]

The oval in the video is very pale and shallow.

 

[Gallant]

The oval in the video is very pale and shallow.

Ugh, you're right. And that was shot indoors.

 

[minousbijoux]

Gallant: you have a lot of really good experience seeing stones in person. Please use that as your guide. IMO, you are starting to get too caught up in getting a good deal. If I were you, for one second, I would let myself think about the stone that stole my heart, rather than one you like a lot and that's a good deal. In other words, get the one you LOVE rather than the "deal" you like.

Having said that, I see shadowing (or half and half) in several of the pics and in others, I see a bowtie as well. Given the fact that almost all elongated stones suffer from some of these characteristics, only you can decide if they are consistent or severe enough to bother you.

Also, keep in mind there is a huge price differential between unheated and heated stones, and, as you've already surmised, price jumps at certain carat increases. Someone else can weigh in on whether for unheated padparadschas the price jumps at the quarter carat, the half carat, or the whole carat number, as I have not bought any in a very long time.

 

[minousbijoux]

The oval in the video is very pale and shallow.

Ugh, you're right. And that was shot indoors.

Hopefully, the lighting was fluorescent too? In any case, since you have it in hand, what do you think of it for color, cut and extinction?

 

[Gallant]

Gallant: you have a lot of really good experience seeing stones in person. Please use that as your guide. IMO, you are starting to get too caught up in getting a good deal. If I were you, for one second, I would let myself think about the stone that stole my heart, rather than one you like a lot and that's a good deal. In other words, get the one you LOVE rather than the "deal" you like.

Having said that, I see shadowing (or half and half) in several of the pics and in others, I see a bowtie as well. Given the fact that almost all elongated stones suffer from some of these characteristics, only you can decide if they are consistent or severe enough to bother you.

Also, keep in mind there is a huge price differential between unheated and heated stones, and, as you've already surmised, price jumps at certain carat increases. Someone else can weigh in on whether for unheated padparadschas the price jumps at the quarter carat, the half carat, or the whole carat number, as I have not bought any in a very long time.

Pictures #2, #6, and #7 look as if there was a bow tie, but it's the two facets (top and bottom of the center) that grey out if the stone isn't perpendicular to your eye or camera lens. I definitely have seen enough bow-ties to know that this one, if it does have one, is minimal. When it's straight up perpendicular and the light is even, I can see the color of both of those facets - there is no greying.

You might be right on the shadowing. I didn't think it had shadowing because when I've seen shadowing (like when visiting GemFix and looking at most of Andrew's stones) the shadowing didn't really go away. If I rotated the stone, it flipped from one side to the other, and one half is always dark. That doesn't happen with this stone. Most of the time there is no shadowing and I think that it only happens when there is one strong light source from one particular direction. So compliments should go to Dan Stair, because I know how good Andrew is.

I thought I'd find a stone at jupitergem.com in LA, but they're overpriced. HUGE selection of Pads though. Seriously, Krishna has HUNDREDS in stock, all certed. But the best one I could find near my budget was $5,192 and had a slight window.

My problem is is that time is running out. I'd like to propose in late July and I need two weeks to have the setting made. And from what I've seen, nothing can come close to this stone on price. Yes, the stone I love is the one in Beverly Hills for $6,200 (which by the way was his cost), and he can't come down any further than that. And $4,500 was already stretching it and I have to pare down the setting at that price.

I'm really getting the feeling that I won't ever be completely satisfied with what I find. There's always something better out there, so maybe I should just stop at what's "good enough".

 

[Gallant]

The oval in the video is very pale and shallow.

Ugh, you're right. And that was shot indoors.

Hopefully, the lighting was fluorescent too? In any case, since you have it in hand, what do you think of it for color, cut and extinction?

I don't actually have the GRS certed stone in hand yet. I have the Jim McCormick stone in hand.

 

[JimMcCormick]

Just to let you folks know, the Pad is not mine. "Gallant" had called it, "the Jim McCormick stone." I had it on consignment for several months to sell at a price the owner wanted, but it is not my stone. I had nothing to do with this transaction, nor did I profit by it, as I sent the stone back to the owner, as he had a buyer.

Thanks!

Jim McCormick

 

[Gallant]

Just to let you folks know, the Pad is not mine. "Gallant" had called it, "the Jim McCormick stone." I had it on consignment for several months to sell at a price the owner wanted, but it is not my stone. I had nothing to do with this transaction, nor did I profit by it, as I sent the stone back to the owner, as he had a buyer.

Thanks!

Jim McCormick

Sorry Jim, I incorrectly assumed that you were the owner. My apologies.

 

[JimMcCormick]

No problem. Just wanted to let everyone know.