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Opinions on two diamonds...

Interstellar

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
10
hello everyone,

I've been following this site for several months and have done my homework regarding diamond shopping, so I'm fairly comfortable I think. I'm currently looking at these two diamonds and would like your opinions on both:

1st Diamond
Price: $16,620
2.10 carat
I color
VS2
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: Faint
Table: 57%
Depth: 60.4%
Crown: 33
Pavilion: 40.8
Girdle: M-ST 3.5%
HCA Score: 0.7

2nd Diamond
Price: $17,491
2.02 carat
I color
VVS2
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Table: 56%
Depth: 61.4%
Crown: 34
Pavilion: 40.6
Girdle: M-ST 4.0%
HCA Score: 0.6

Their HCA scores are both <2.0, which is good. On the one hand, I'm getting more diamond but a VS2 with faint fluorescence. But the 2nd diamond is smaller and has better clarity and no fluorescence. They are about $800 different in price.

1) What do you guys feel is the one to get?

2) Also, is the $16,620 for the first diamond a good value? How do the prices for these diamonds measure up in terms of value?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Second one is better by the numbers. The first has too a low crown. You don't want lower than 33.5.

That said, I would not pay for VVS clarity.

And advise, that if this is for someone else, you go with an H color stone instead.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,607
I agree that I wouldn't do a 33 crown angle. Faint fluorescence is a non-issue,really. I think #2 looks promising, but I still like an ASET on those numbers as a 34 crown angle works best with around a 40.9 pav angle. Gypsy has a good point that if you are paying $800 more for VVS, it might be worth looking at the H VS2 selection. I will say, though, that GIA I color is usually fine to me.
 

Interstellar

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
10
Are they both really that bad? I know the first has a crown of 33, is that too far from the ideal? The diamond still has a very good HCA score.

And with the 2nd diamond is the table too small? I agree that VVS2 is overkill but the diamond price seemed like a good deal. Perhaps I am wrong. Should I hold off for a better value/diamond?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
No, the second one is a great stone. I was just saying that if that is your budget you might want to put your money where it is visible (color) instead of on higher clarity. The table is definitely not too small on that one.

HCA score is a rudimentary rejection tool. Not a selection tool. You still need the numbers in the right range and 33.5-35 is that range for crown angles. And you also need an idealscope image, which (coupled with the numbers) is the selection tool.
 

Interstellar

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
10
Gypsy|1464844337|4039251 said:
No, the second one is a great stone. I was just saying that if that is your budget you might want to put your money where it is visible (color) instead of on higher clarity. The table is definitely not too small on that one.

HCA score is a rudimentary rejection tool. Not a selection tool. You still need the numbers in the right range and 33.5-35 is that range for crown angles. And you also need an idealscope image, which (coupled with the numbers) is the selection tool.
Thank you for your prompt reply.

My budget is max at low $17,000's. If I could get an H VS2 in that range I would definitely be interested, but the only ones I see cost minimum >$18000. The second diamond is one I happened to come across and I thought(perhaps unwisely) that it was a very good deal.
Is it possible to get a good H VS2 for a similar price?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I didn't find any, unfortunately. You can get an H SI1. But the ones I found did not have pictures.

In light of that, I do think that the VVS is your best bet. And you were not unwise at all.
 

Interstellar

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
10
pebble72|1464849369|4039266 said:
I looked far and wide using the parameters you used. This is the only other diamond I would consider if I were in your shoes:

2.04ct IVS1 for $16290

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Round/GIA-Certified-2-04-Carat-I-Color-VS1-Clarity-Diamond-G2HJPS

Maybe some of the experts can chime in.
thanks for your help! I looked at the diamond and I am surprised. It is a VS1 but the inclusions are very visible/noticeable. I thought VS1 was supposed to be eye clean.

Also, how does Medium Flurorescence affect I color diamonds? I know it varies case by case, but is medium fluorescence in I color too strong and clearly visible in daylight?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Medium fluorescence is fine in I color stones, just make sure to confirm with their gemologist that the stone is not overblue.

Diamonds are graded for clarity at 10x. VS1 means inclusions are very hard to see at 10x. You are looking at a 40-50x picture, so of course you are going to see inclusions. But you don't wear a stone at 50x. Or even 10x. You wear a stone unmagnified and that stone will be perfectly clean.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I wouldn't buy it without an idealscope image as the crown is over 35.

It's a little deep, but not a dealbreaker if the price is really good. It's facing up at 8.00mm not 8.1 but that's a small thing.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,607
If I were buying a diamond where light return images were not available, I would stay within these boundaries. I do not like the measurements on that last stone. I'd want a 2 ct stone to be 8.1mm and wouldn't consider going over 62.3 on depth because it can hurt diameter.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)
 

Interstellar

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
10
Thanks to everyone who's posted on this thread! You guys have helped me understand that I can do a lot better in both the diamond quality and price.

I still need help however. It was mentioned in another thread that some places sell pre-owned rings. This had never occurred to me, and it's something that I'm definitely interested in.

Could someone help me or point me to places that sell pre-owned rings?

I'm looking for a diamond with the following specs.

Price <$16,999
Color I or greater
Clarity at least VS1
Carat >= 2.0
Cut/Polish/Symmetry: Excellent or as good as possible

The Table and Depth percentage, as well as the Crown angle and Pavilion angle should be as good as possible so that it gets and HCA score <=2.0. Gypsy and Diamondseeker listed the ideal specs, and hopefully I can find a diamond that meets that.

I really believe it's possible to find a such a diamond, and I'm willing to be patient. And again, I'm open to pre-owned diamonds also. Thank you for your help. You guys have already helped me make a much more informed decision, and I feel I can get a great deal and quality diamond by doing more research and being patient.
 

Interstellar

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
10
Could anyone help me find a pre-owned diamond with the above specifications? Is it even possible?

I would really appreciate any guidance you guys can give me.
 
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