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Opinions on this Whiteflash ACA 2.808

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,475
Any opinions are appreciated. Also, are CBI on par or better than ACA?

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4097162.htm


Thanks!
This looks nice, although are you sure E color is necessary? You'll pay a large premium--just wanted to make sure you know that and are on board for it. Most people here will say that CBI and ACA are on par with each other, although everyone has their favorites. I personally prefer CBI from the videos I've seen (and having my own CBI), but others prefer ACA, or think they are equal. To be honest, my guess is that the differences are quite minimal IRL.
 

LinSF

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Messages
427
That stone is knock your socks off stunning! In terms of ACA being "on par" with CBI... both are super ideal diamonds and the ones that I have seen have been beyond gorgeous - both brands. Having had the privilege of seeing them side by side I have to say that I can tell the difference and have a preference for CBI diamonds. Does that mean that I won't buy an ACA? Nope. Does that mean that I think that CBIs are better? Nope. It simply means that to my eye I can discern a difference. If the ACA speaks to you, and is the color/clarity you want I would say to go for it!
 

Foxtails99

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Messages
25
This looks nice, although are you sure E color is necessary? You'll pay a large premium--just wanted to make sure you know that and are on board for it. Most people here will say that CBI and ACA are on par with each other, although everyone has their favorites. I personally prefer CBI from the videos I've seen (and having my own CBI), but others prefer ACA, or think they are equal. To be honest, my guess is that the differences are quite minimal IRL.
I have been wrestling with the color issue for months. Ugh! I don’t necessarily want to pay the premium but this will be the last diamond I buy and I don’t want to settle. I read a lot about the CBI diamonds and how they look up to 2 colors better but I still think the lowest I want to go is F. I also want to be close to 3 cts and looking at their current inventory they don’t have anything that matches that. I don’t think they make stones in the 2.75 - 2.90 range from what I read but I don’t know if I will be happy with something that is less than 2.75. One of their stores is about an hour and a half away from me so I’m thinking I should go see a CBI in person before I make any decisions.
 

Foxtails99

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Messages
25
That stone is knock your socks off stunning! In terms of ACA being "on par" with CBI... both are super ideal diamonds and the ones that I have seen have been beyond gorgeous - both brands. Having had the privilege of seeing them side by side I have to say that I can tell the difference and have a preference for CBI diamonds. Does that mean that I won't buy an ACA? Nope. Does that mean that I think that CBIs are better? Nope. It simply means that to my eye I can discern a difference. If the ACA speaks to you, and is the color/clarity you want I would say to go for it!
I think I need to see a CBI stone in person. I like this stone because from the video it looks clean and has so much fire and sparkle although I don’t know if “Indented Natural” is an issue?
 

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,076
I love your pick! :kiss2: Also, if you consider the chance that AGS can be soft on colour grading (this does not seem to be the case with CBI), the E might actually be an F. Yes you save money by going down in colour but omg E would be gorgeous and if this is going to be your last diamond, I would definitely go for it!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,220
I am certain that AGS doesn't grade CBI diamonds more strictly for color than other brands. Borderline color stones might sometimes bump to the higher grade with AGS, but this is not something I'd worry about with high colors as they are going to appear colorless. E VS1 is a very fine combination, and I'd be thrilled to have those specs, personally. Others would rather have a 3+ct stone in the near colorless range. So the recipient's preferences would be important in this case.

I am one who will tell you that WF ACA and CBI are both top quality stones. Both have outstanding cut. If you or any customer was given a tray of 20 stones, half of each brand, there's no way you could separate them by brand accurately. Both are cut in a narrow range of proportions, but every diamond has slightly different measurements. Therefore, shown two diamonds, a real diamond connoisseur might have a preference of one stone over the other, but it wouldn't be based on brand, it would be based on the specs of the two stones including the specific cut, the color, etc. Bottom line, either is great. I own several diamonds from Whiteflash, and if I thought they weren't equal to the best, I would not have purchased them.
 

hypermom

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
454
I saw the title of your thread and I knew which stone you are talking about because I was considering buying that stone. I see from your other threads you are upgrading for your 30th. Congratulations! I’m actually right now working on my upgrade for my 35th.
I had the same decision you have. Do I save money and go under 3 carats or just take the plunge? Since I decided to go over 3 carats there was no choice for me other than HPD. I believe both Whiteflash and HPD have great stones (I own some Whiteflash stones and have seen CBI stones in person). I chose to work with HPD because of their reputation for outstanding customer service. I also needed some hand holding with respect to setting ideas. I am doing a custom cut CBI and have just acquired the crystal. I have also approved the settings and wedding band.
Let me just say that HPD has exceeded my expectations and I am thrilled that I choose them for my upgraded wedding set. Now if only they could give me patience to wait for my rings!
 

Foxtails99

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Messages
25
I saw the title of your thread and I knew which stone you are talking about because I was considering buying that stone. I see from your other threads you are upgrading for your 30th. Congratulations! I’m actually right now working on my upgrade for my 35th.
I had the same decision you have. Do I save money and go under 3 carats or just take the plunge? Since I decided to go over 3 carats there was no choice for me other than HPD. I believe both Whiteflash and HPD have great stones (I own some Whiteflash stones and have seen CBI stones in person). I chose to work with HPD because of their reputation for outstanding customer service. I also needed some hand holding with respect to setting ideas. I am doing a custom cut CBI and have just acquired the crystal. I have also approved the settings and wedding band.
Let me just say that HPD has exceeded my expectations and I am thrilled that I choose them for my upgraded wedding set. Now if only they could give me patience to wait for my rings!
Were you able to get an E/F stone at over 3 cts from HPD? I checked their inventory and the only stone over 3 cts was a J. Also, are the prices of custom cut diamonds similar to what they have in inventory or do you pay a premium for it? This is so much money that I’m almost paralyzed by fear of making the wrong decision. My DH doesn’t help as he said last night to just order the Whiteflash stone as if I was ordering a pizza! I’m ok staying under 3 cts but really want to be 2.75+ cts. I thought HPD doesn’t normally do that size because they get outbid for the stones or something like that. Since you were considering this stone what made you decide to not purchase it?
 

skypie

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Messages
503
From my observation, it seems there is a slight preference on this board for CBI over WF, though it is close. Maybe a 60/40 split rather than something huge like 90/10. I personally purchased a WF and think it is great!
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,475
Were you able to get an E/F stone at over 3 cts from HPD? I checked their inventory and the only stone over 3 cts was a J. Also, are the prices of custom cut diamonds similar to what they have in inventory or do you pay a premium for it? This is so much money that I’m almost paralyzed by fear of making the wrong decision. My DH doesn’t help as he said last night to just order the Whiteflash stone as if I was ordering a pizza! I’m ok staying under 3 cts but really want to be 2.75+ cts. I thought HPD doesn’t normally do that size because they get outbid for the stones or something like that. Since you were considering this stone what made you decide to not purchase it?
They usually cut to order the bigger stones. I would reach out and ask. I got a stone cut to order and the process was easy and awesome!
 

cflutist

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
3,867
They usually cut to order the bigger stones. I would reach out and ask. I got a stone cut to order and the process was easy and awesome!
Yes, CBI will cut to order diamonds over 3 carats in weight. There is no premium for them to do that.

Here is a 3.58 D-Flawless that they previously cut for a PSer here. An extremely rare diamond indeed with no blemishes either.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/blog/blog-article/17/chasing-perfection!-3.58-carat-d-flawless.htm

While smaller than 3cts, I have a 2.79 F-VS1 CBI so they do exist.
 

hypermom

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
454
Were you able to get an E/F stone at over 3 cts from HPD? I checked their inventory and the only stone over 3 cts was a J. Also, are the prices of custom cut diamonds similar to what they have in inventory or do you pay a premium for it? This is so much money that I’m almost paralyzed by fear of making the wrong decision. My DH doesn’t help as he said last night to just order the Whiteflash stone as if I was ordering a pizza! I’m ok staying under 3 cts but really want to be 2.75+ cts. I thought HPD doesn’t normally do that size because they get outbid for the stones or something like that. Since you were considering this stone what made you decide to not purchase it?
Hi Foxtails99!
Our husbands could be related I think. My husband is like, just buy something already and don’t bother me.
I think the only stones Whiteflash had in stock at the size you are looking at when I was looking was several stones, one was the one you are interested in and I think the other was an H. I wasn’t looking specifically for an E but that E stone fit in with my budget. I think we are coming from from slightly different places. I wanted a 3 carat but wanted to be respectful of my husband’s gift. I could have saved quite a bit by going down in size. My husband wanted me to go over 3 carats. I think you want a little less than 3 carats.
I knew I couldn’t do an E or F at 3 carats so I decided to set my sights on an H with the hope that I could swing a G. In my case a G VS crystal became available within a day and the feedback on the stone was very positive. So i went for it and that is the crystal they will be cutting for me.
I am not aware there is a premium for custom cut. They are other regulars here that have far more experience than I with that. I am a long time lurker going through what you are going through and thought I’d share my experience with you.
I hope you don’t mind if I give you some advice. I think you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself to get it right the first time. See the good thing about working with either of those vendors is that they have an amazing upgrade policies. Not just in size but color and clarity.
HPD made arrangements for me to see the 3.3 J VS1and the 2.56 H VS2 at an appraiser near my town. They wanted me to see the J for size and the H for color. 3.3 is quite large. So I felt comfortable going down to the low 3 carats. I thought the H color was nice and I believed I would be happy with it but it was a mental thing for me to get to G. I asked them to search for crystals in the g-h, vs-si range. When they find a crystal they contact you and give you feedback about it and ask if you want to proceed. I never felt pressured to close the deal. In my case I went a tad over budget for the G and am happy I did. That was noted by them when telling me of the crystal. But they were totally willing to do whatever to ensure I was happy. The impression I am getting is that they don’t just want to make the sale, they truly want you to be satisfied long term.
Anyway the drawback of seeing diamonds in an appraiser’s office is that you are only seeing them for a short time. You are seeing what you can tolerate for a short time. After you purchase and live with a diamond for awhile you begin to see if you are happy with the color or do you wish you went higher? Do the inclusions bother you? Is the size too big (!!!) or too small ;(? There are upgrades for that.
I think you mentioned that you could go see some CBI diamonds. I would highly recommend that. Alternatively I would reach out to @LaylaR on the HPD website, I believe her contact information is there and ask her your questions. I am currently working with her on my upgrade and all I can say is that I had a vision for my upgrade that has already been exceeded. Her ideas on settings have been superb. She wouldn’t stop with ideas and suggestions (even when I thought she would. I was even annoying myself at that point).
During this process I like you have been a little frustrated and confused. I no longer feel that way.
And have fun! It’s an amazing upgrade! You should be enjoying yourself.
I hope this information helps you. Any other questions please ask.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,636
There should be no issues with 'soft' AGS colour grading of CBI stones because they query any unexpectedly high grading reports with AGS!

If you have the available funds / credit, you could order the WF stone and call the CBI dealer to request a side-by-side viewing session with similar size and/or colour CBI stones - different sizes behave differently, so if they have no similar weight *and* colour stones, you should ask to see both variables but in different stones :)
 

headlight

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
1,634
When I was doing my "downgrade" lol!, I could've traded for an insanely performing AGS0 that was graded G and it was more "warm" and dark than my previous I color so I am a bit hesitant of the AGS color grading.
The suggestion of having a custom cut is a great one, especially since you want this to be the forever diamond. When I was looking for my 2ct. E color there just aren't a lot of AGS graded ones out there. E colored diamonds are less than 1% of all diamonds so you need to keep that in mind... ESPECIALLY when you are talking about a diamond in the size you are seeking. So the suggestion for the custom cut seems to really be the way to go.
As I referred to this as my "downgrade", coming from the former 3.29ct., I went smaller so I could get the E color and I have ZERO regrets. If you have the option to get an E, I say go for it. This opportunity may never come again. ALSO, very important to keep in mind: Color will be MUCH more evident in a 3 carat diamond. I don't care how good a cut it has, it will be more prominent.
My husband, too, is also like "just do what you want and get it over with" lol!
There is an element of "performance" with the colorless in and of itself where it seems like there is white light emanating from it and that brings in another element to the visual that you aren't going to get in the near-colorless range.
 

cflutist

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
3,867
@Foxtails99

Like @headlight said, I also recommend that you do a Cut to Order with HPD.

If this is your "final" diamond, I would not compromise, a 3ct or larger E-VS1 would be very nice.

WF has 10 virtual diamonds of that grade available but none in house with AGS Ideal cut grading. HPD doesn't either, but someone does have a 3.10 G-VS2 CBI in progress that is on their website today.

I have done a HPD Cut to Order in the past, but recently traded that 2.21 F-SI1 for an 2.18 E-VS1 CBI. This will give me my mind clean 3-stone ring with two other F-VS side stones.

WF and HPD are both highly reputable companies and both come highly recommended on PS. However, I prefer HPD because I have worked with Wink since 2004 on a number of projects and also own five CBI diamonds. They also have a killer bench that uses the same casting house as Harry Winston. All of their custom rings have a very fine polish on all surfaces, even in the insides of their baskets. Check out their Facebook or Instagram pages for photos of gorgeous rings.

Good luck with your journey and I hope you get the diamond that makes your heart sing.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,220
If the Whiteflash stone is the perfect size, color, and clarity for you, I am not sure what is holding you back from deciding. It has pretty much perfect measurements. I'd take an already cut stone any day before I'd have one custom cut just because they cannot 100% tell you what the final measurements and other specs will be. There are many people here who have large WF ACA diamonds. I tried on the 5 ct diamond that grateful4life ended up buying when I visited WF, and my friend m-2-b has a 4 ct ACA, as well. There are many others, of course, but I am just saying there are many members here who chose ACA when their budgets allowed buying the best. If this stone is NOT what you're looking for, then by all means consider options such as custom cutting. But from what you said above, it sounds like a rare stone in the just under 3 ct range with top cut, color, and clarity that you desire.
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,408
I have to agree with @diamondseeker2006

If there is already a super-ideal stone that fits your requirements in your pricerange, whether it's with CBI or WF, I'd just get that, than a custom cut route. I cannot see any advantage of getting a custom cut if this stone fulfils your requirements.

While I have upmost respect for CBI, WF tends to have a larger inventory for upgrades available for this carat range.
 

CareBear

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Messages
1,300
From my experience, if you find a 2.8-2.99 stone that satisfies your criteria, jump on it immediately. It will be sold quickly. As for custom cut, I'm not sure if WF or CBI will custom cut a 2.8-2.99 stone, as rough for those sizes are very hard to find. I'm curious to know if they will though.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,167
I'm in the "bird-in-the-hand is worth two in the bush" group. I would not go custom if I could find what I want already cut. I'm the same with settings.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
30,587
I have to agree with @diamondseeker2006

If there is already a super-ideal stone that fits your requirements in your pricerange, whether it's with CBI or WF, I'd just get that, than a custom cut route. I cannot see any advantage of getting a custom cut if this stone fulfils your requirements.
The advantage is if the stone comes back from AGS a color or a clarity grade higher you'll still pay the same price for the stone since the price was already locked in before polishing.
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,408
The advantage is if the stone comes back from AGS a color or a clarity grade higher you'll still pay the same price for the stone since the price was already locked in before polishing.
But if someone really wants an E/F and it comes back a G (even got discount) then the whole exercise can be pointless for those with specific requirements.
 

Foxtails99

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Messages
25
@Foxtails99 - did you reserve this stone?
Yes, I did reserve the stone. I spoke with Wink from HPD and although I think it would be great to work with him I am not convinced it would be all that easy to find an E/F VS1 stone in the 2.75 - 2.9 range which is where I would like to be. If I want a 3+ ct stone I think it would be possible but I would like to stay under the 3 ct mark. I also decided I do not want to compromise on the color. Based on everyone’s thoughtful comments I decided to see this stone in person.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
11,773
Yes, I did reserve the stone. I spoke with Wink from HPD and although I think it would be great to work with him I am not convinced it would be all that easy to find an E/F VS1 stone in the 2.75 - 2.9 range which is where I would like to be. If I want a 3+ ct stone I think it would be possible but I would like to stay under the 3 ct mark. I also decided I do not want to compromise on the color. Based on everyone’s thoughtful comments I decided to see this stone in person.
Great - can't wait to hear your thoughts on it!!
 

Foxtails99

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Messages
25
Great - can't wait to hear your thoughts on it!!
I received her this week and she’s a beauty! Literally looks like a little fireball. It is much more fiery and sparkly than my original engagement ring. I love the E color as it is very icy and clear. No hint of color at all. I had it appraised today and it came in on point with AGS lab. Actually the stone is graded VS1 and the appraiser had such a hard time seeing two of the tiny inclusions that they would have rated it a VVS2.

Thank you everyone for all of your help. I have learned so much from this forum in the last few months. Without Pricescope I don’t think I could have made this purchase and been confident of what I was buying.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
11,773
I received her this week and she’s a beauty! Literally looks like a little fireball. It is much more fiery and sparkly than my original engagement ring. I love the E color as it is very icy and clear. No hint of color at all. I had it appraised today and it came in on point with AGS lab. Actually the stone is graded VS1 and the appraiser had such a hard time seeing two of the tiny inclusions that they would have rated it a VVS2.

Thank you everyone for all of your help. I have learned so much from this forum in the last few months. Without Pricescope I don’t think I could have made this purchase and been confident of what I was buying.
We need some pictures please! Glad you love the stone!!
 
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