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Opinions on this GCAL report please and thank you!

Gnoble

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
62
So I have 2 diamonds I am looking at.

One is an ideal cut 1.17carat I color VS2 measurements all look good but does not have a GCAL report. It's depth 62.2 with a 56%table, crown angle 34.5 and Pavilion angle 40.8. It measures 6.74x6.72x4.19mm. Medium blue Fluor. $5470

The diamond with the GCAL is a 1.13C signiture ideal cut diamond. Color I, VS2, depth 61.8, table 57%, crown angle 34.5%, pavilion angle 41.2, measures 6.70-6.72 x 4.15mm no Fluor. $6704
GCLA http://www.bluenile.com/certs/253340028.pdf?params=Y291bnRyeT1VU0EmcHJvZHVjdD1CTiZwaG9uZT0xKzg4OC01NjUtNzY0MSZsaW5rPWh0dHAlM0ElMkYlMkZ3d3cuYmx1ZW5pbGUuY29tJTJGX0xEMDY1MDkwNTQmY3VycmVuY3k9VVNEJmxhYj1nY2FsJnNrdT1MRDA2NTA5MDU0Jg%3D%3D


The first diamond has been confirmed as a good performer and eye clean (as it should for VS2). I guess I'm trying to find out is for the additional $1000+ price tag is it worth it to go signiture ideal or have I found a great diamond in the 1.17C at the price that the visual difference won't justify the added cost. I want the best possible looking diamond I can get when it comes to brilliance.

Thank you all for the info!
 

Gnoble

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
62
I'm not sure that link is going to work. Ugh. I am going to post pictures and hope they are large enough to see.

_36022.jpg

_36023.jpg

_36024.jpg

_36025.jpg
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,175
No. This signature ideal is arguably worse than the first diamond. In fact, this is worse than the other two diamonds BN suggested in the previous thread. If you are now comfortable with 6.7k budget and want extra assurance for your purchase, I recommend you look at Whiteflash's A Cut Above, Brain Gavin's Signature, Good Old Gold's Ascendancy Hearts and Arrows... etc...

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3617115.htm
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1.16ct-i-si1-ascendancy-round-hearts-and-arrows-diamond.html
 

Gnoble

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
62
I had found this one not them but was nervous about it because it didn't appear to have good numbers, hence the reason I posted to get opinions. Thought it was strange it was chosen for signiture ideal. The diamond expert actually told me he really liked the 1.17 and thought I would be very happy with it especially for the price. There is actually one other one I came across that is a 1.51 carat and had excellent measurements but is a J color and I'm just not sure about a J color. It's $7197. Thoughts on that with a J color? I'm still leaning towards the 1.17. Any reason for me to not like that one?

_36026.jpg

_36027.jpg
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,175
First, J color..
0.9jvs1.jpg This is my fiance's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziZ1S8ZlZEE

Personally, I (and fiance) love. But some don't recommend. This is personal preference that only you know. J color stones offer some amazing value.

Now you are considering over 7.0k. Is there any reason why you are only looking at BN?? You are increasingly picky as you learn about diamonds (which is great) and open to other options. That 1.17 carat VS2 is potentially super ideal at a great price. Many commented on that stone already. It's got great numbers. BN said it's eye clean and agreed that it's a great stone. I would get that. Otherwise, get a full refund from BN and start fresh, and consider other vendors, especially with 7.0k budget.
 

Gnoble

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
62
I would feel comfortable purchasing the 1.17 especially at that price. Yes I could spend more money but really would probably want a much bigger diamond and in order to get a visually sizable difference would probably have to go to a J color. It does make me a little nervous as I don't think I would want to see any yellow. I had an I and thought the color was fine. Without having the J to look at its difficult. I have become picky, and even slightly OCD lol. I just wanted to get some thoughts on those other things I came across just to give myself piece of mind. I think I am at the price point that in order to get more I really have to spend quite a bit more. Yes I can spend $7000 for a diamond but would need to keep my setting price down. I have been working with blue Nile and the poor diamond expert is earning his paycheck dealing with me. I have had lots of questions. He really has been good with me. I have been happy with their service. I'm just trying to exhaust all possibilities and options so I don't have to continue searching. I really appreciate your help!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,630
Flying pig, that other stone could potentially be ideal, but likely not superideal. I agree that it has better numbers than the Signature stone. Still risky buying stones with no images at all. That is evidenced by looking at a page of excellent cut stones on James Allen. I'd still only consider maybe one in ten. The images are extremely helpful.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Nov 7, 2015
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I agree that images are important. The OP was initially ok with BN without any image. The budget was limited. Now things have changed in OPs mind. Again, this is good. Thats why I recommend a full refund and start fresh with a new budget with other vendors.

If you don't want any yellowness, and was happy with I, then.. I or above for sure.

A reasonable choice from JA.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.33-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-846638
Not 1.5 carat. 1.33c. but still I color, most likely eye-clean..

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3586264.htm
1.23c
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-24ct-i-si2-superior-round-hearts-and-arrows-diamond.html
1.24c

You pay premium for photos (added assurance), and you pay more premium for ASET and the maximum assurance.
Here are options..
 

Gnoble

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
62
Let me ask you this...what is the worst thing that could be wrong with that 1.17 without having images? How "bad" could it be? I'm new to all this so I don't totally understand a the differences.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
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2,175

Gnoble

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
62
Should I trust that they have reached out to confirm its supposed to be an eye clean diamond with good performance? I just don't want to be splitting hairs if you know what I mean. If you think it's very hard for me to find a nice diamond without going signiture ideal cut then I will certainly think very strongly about spending the extra dough. I'm trying to really understand the differences and how significant.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Nov 7, 2015
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There are thousands of happy BN customers who bought their stones without photos. I have read many success stories here at Pricescope.
Some require added assurance and go with JA because of photos. and you pay $$$.
For some, photos are not enough. ASET/IS are required. So they choose BN signature, and JA trueheart.
For others even that's not enough. They want great trade-up/buyback policy, and go with whiteflash, GOG, and CBI diamonds.

What service, trade-up policy, and quality assurance do you require?? How much are you willing to pay for such service?? Only you know.
I do not live in the US and needed some added assurance for my purchase, and chose JA. If I lived in the US, I have probably picked BN because of free return. That's just me. That 1.17 VS2 is as safe as and as good as it gets from non-signature line. At the worst, you return for free. If you decide to keep it, at the worst, you still have GIA Triple X with ideal proportions and you paid a fair price. The best case is that stone is super ideal (it's got potential) and you save 1.5k. Is it safe enough for you??

And I checked BN signature stones from $6.3 to $7.4k (I color, SI 1 or above). There is not a single stone that thrills me. There are better packages from other vendors.

I am a member with only 100+ posts.. So take that into consideration as well. I hope other members comment too.
 

Gnoble

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
62
Thank you so much for all of your help. Please know I am taking every word you say very seriously as I know you have nothing in it for you so you are a completely neutral party and have been so kind to help me. I so so so appreciate the help. The diamond expert told me the only reason the stone would not be picked for the signiture ideal cut is because it was .3mm I believe to deep? Does that make sense? I believe it was just a tad deep for their standards. With that being said he actually told me he would be comfortable buying the stone (1.17). Even after me sending him 2 other more expensive options he still would feel 100% confident I would be happy with that stone. He did also say he would never shy away from recommending a signiture stone as they are simply the best cuts they carry. He said the 1.13 may not appear great by HCA standards but actual live measurements and tools trump calculations and that stone did meet ideal requirements. Basically he said if I felt inclined to spend the extra money I wouldn't be disappointed in that stone but he didn't think I needed to as he still felt that 1.17 was a great diamond. I'm just nervous. It's been an emotional journey to begin with in the sense I'm replacing a priceless piece so near and dear to my heart that was stolen from me. I have some trust issues and am just trying to be happy again with what is worn on my finger. Funny thing is, I'm sure the first diamond you all would have died over as it was so far from perfect but to me, it didn't matter. I knew nothing at the time, it was what my hubby wanted me to have and I loved it. I never even questioned it. Now that the ball has been placed in my court, it's been a struggle for me to trust my own decision. Sorry, I'm perhaps pouring to much of my heart out. I guess I want you to understand where I'm coming from and not think I'm just crazy lol. Honestly, even if I go ahead and purchase the 1.17, lord knows unless something crazy is going on with it, I'm not sure I'm going to know the difference :shifty:
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 7, 2015
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2,175
Yes, the stone is a bit deep at 62.2%. This is still within the ideal range (depending on whom you ask). Some consider 62.3% ok. The depth requirement for Whiteflash's ACA is 62%. Some picky people only consider 61.8% or less. I have read many threads. You may do your own research. Do you see the diameter for each stone? 1.17c is barely larger than 1.13c, because it is deeper with less spread. The stone appears more like 1.15c I guess; that's it. But that table%, pav angle and crown angle are just right. You already got approval from other members in regards to the numbers; all were positive.

At this stage, I assume you want to maximize the money you spend by shopping at BN. So, here are more options for you from non-signiture. VS1 and VV2 and higher carat weight.

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?stockno=LD04378272
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?stockno=LD06593332
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?stockno=LD05729226 (crown angle is a bit high, but it is coupled with a low pav angle. AGS Ideal. It's got a computer generated ASET for added assurance. This is well priced for AGS ideal. I think this is what you want, based on this and previous threads. You want a big stone with mind-clean clarity. AGS 000 indicate ideal light performance. The ASET is not super ideal level, but still damn good. A good balance of price, performance, assurance, color, clarity and carat, IMHO)

So as much as I would love "the perfect diamond" I do want to try to stay reasonably within my budget. Since I know you are all either professionals or diamond enthusiast (as I am learning to be one as well) I at this point would really like a well cut diamond. I am not sure if I need a true H&A diamond. I guess I'm wondering if I absolutely need that to have a beautiful well cut diamond? I am willing to dish out the money and drop a bit of carat weight if you all truly think I will see a big enough difference. If you think we can find a gorgeous diamond a notch down from true H&A then I am fine with that. I guess I want the best bang for my buck.
I just cannot recommend BN signature stones (based on what I see in their inventory as of now). The total package is not very attractive. If you are considering a stone from a "signature" line, consider other vendors.
 

solgen

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
563
BN reps seem to say different things on different occasions. They told me that the Signature Ideal Line were stones they had cut to specific proportions that they believed offered superior performance. As such these diamonds are owned by them and in stock. Other diamonds are part of a virtual inventory and it is possible that you can find one with proportions that would qualify for their Sig Ideal line.

That 1.13 doesn't have an ideal CA/PA combo. As such one would expect some light leakage under the table and there is evidence of that in the GCAL report. It seems to show in the Optical Brilliance Analysis and its apparent on other pics as well.

The 1.17 does have an ideal CA/PA and the specs should lead to nice performer. GIA has some leeway in the way they measure so it might not even be ideal proportions but it could still be close enough. If you wanted superior optical performance and (super) ideal proportions then you would want to look at specific vendors' signature cuts.

As for I vs J that's going to be up to you. If you don't see an real tint in the I then a J may also suffice. The 1.51 is a nice size increase. It should face up equally as white so depending on your setting you can mask quite a bit of tint should it be present.

The 1.51 has pics on another vendor's site and I'd question if it's eye clean. Carbon inclusion right in the center of the table and you might also see it reflected in the pav even though its VS2. Cut and sym look pretty nice though so it should be a good performer too.
 

Gnoble

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
62
A those look great too Flyingpig. Thanks for the recommendations!

Slogan, what type of a setting would you recommend? I was looking at something like this...

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_36030.jpg
 

Downsy

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 22, 2014
Messages
121
Gnoble you sound much like me! I just got my 30th anniversary upgrade diamond and I literally had analysis paralysis, as my hubby calls it! I found one stone and that's what we purchased first. It had great scores and fit the tolk parameters, but it had brillianteering which bothered me. I kept looking even though the ring was ordered and on its way. Then I found my 2nd stone which was bright and crisp and was a triple xxx too but wasn't in the ideal desired range. It has a shallow crown and deep pavilion but they are compatible with each other. I bought that too and looked at both diamonds. I wasn't able to get idealscopes, sarins, or asets - so I went with the stone I liked best. Which was the bright stone with shallow crown, steep pavilion. It scored 1,8 on HCA and 1b on AGA and is a J color, vs2. It's a lovely stone!!! I had set my budget and stayed within it and got a really pretty stone. I worried over it, that it's not perfect but I can't tell that it's not perfect! To my eye - it's lovely! My original stone is a .79 I color si2 and my new one really looks as bright and has great flashes of sparkle.

I guess I'm trying to encourage you to "go with your gut, pick a stone" and I bet you will be more than thrilled with it!
 

Downsy

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 22, 2014
Messages
121
I just realized the 1.51 you looked was one of the stones I had on hold at first! I loved it was going to take a chance that the black speck on the table was not going to be seen by eye, but then I found my other choices and went with them. Btw that stone u linked was listed at James Allen for less although it's still showing as unavailable ever since I had it on hold. I saved the diamond link when I put on hold. Here it is in case you want to see the video from JA. They had it priced around $6995 or something. Can't remember exact number now.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.51-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-723948
 

Gnoble

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
62
That's crazy! It shows as sold on James Allen but still available through BN. I wonder if BN bought it from JA? Lol. It's so hard when you can't see the diamond in person. The fact of the matter is, because I am no trained professional I am probably not going to be able to tell one from another without comparing. I think I just need peace of mind that it fits all the right criteria. Unless something g ready obviously strange is going on with it, I'm sure it's going to be beautiful. I am actually becoming a bit obsessed over the process lol. It's just my personality I have a thing for attention to detail.

Any opinions on GIA vs AGS? The one stone Flyingpig posted is AGS and intrigues me a bit, it's the only AGS stone I have seen. It does only get 2 excellents and 2 very goods at a 1.6 on the HCA but looks to be a score of 0 through AGS. These are the small details that start getting me confused. It seems the 1.17 is a fairly safe bet, even with it perhaps being considered slightly deep, price is great. But if I wanted to squeeze out a slightly larger stone the ones flying pig shared are all great options! Am I going to notice a sizable difference between1.17 and 1..3 for the added money?
 

Gnoble

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
62
And really it might be only a difference between that 1.17 and slightly less than 1.3. Like 1.21 and 1.27ish. That 1.17 presents itself closer to a 1.15 because of measurements.
 

Gnoble

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
62
Flyingpig, I'm seriously considering that 1.27c $64xx diamond. It has great numbers! What could be wrong with it that would disqualify it as a signiture diamond? It's .20mm larger than the 1.17 which I think will be a nice happy medium size without the huge price increase. Any specific thoughts on that one? Stock number ending in 3332.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,175
Ok..I am a member with only 100+ posts. Take that into consideration

First, VS1 inclusions are considered impossible to see. Simply search and see previous threads. Goes to JA's website and see VS1 stones. Are you concerned? Anything above VS1 (VVS) is considered an overkill in general. So there is no clarity issue

Polish/Symmetry: Ex

Flour: None.... Good

Proportions
Table 56%, Depth 61.2%, Crown 35, Pav 40.6. All numbers in the ideal range.
61.2% depth provides good spread. Certainly better than 62.2% of 1.17 VS2. Look at the measurement difference. It is greater than 0.2mm which can be noticeable.

35 crown and 40.6 pav complement each other well. Deep/shallow combo.

HCA is 0.8. Look at the graph. X is situated very comfortably within the white outline, meaning potential AGS Ideal as well.
GIA rounds their numbers. So 35 crown can be 34.75<x<35.25, and 40.6 can be 40.5<x<40.7. You can try different combinations of crown/pav numbers within those ranges and see HCA. All results are less than 2.0.

34.5/40.8 combo of the VS2 is arguably better. But 35/40.6 combo is great as well.

50% star facet and 75% lower girdle facets are normal.

Why is it not part of BN signature line? I do not know. You may ask BN. Maybe the stone is not in the US? (which is actually common, should not be a concern). Maybe because it is new inventory??? (look at the grade report date.. Jan 05, 2016). If they put all ideal cut stones in their signature line, there is no fun shopping at BN. The part of fun shopping at BN is that you find something at a bargain price without photo. If it turns out ideal, :dance: . If not, RETURN.


This is what I learned from other experts at PS.

I thought you would like this stone based on all your comments. The price is more than reasonable. If you are unable to pull the trigger on this one, I don't know what to say.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,630
Blue Nile has stones all over the world. So does James Allen. They have diamonds listed that many other vendors have listed. They do have some diamonds in-house, such as BN Signature and JA True Hearts. BN Signature does not even come close to the cut standards of hearts and arrows vendors such as Whiteflash. That 1.17 stone was not too deep. The angles were off and the stone could have leakage. If you look at the images in the GCAL report and compare them to a WF ACA, for example, you can see that it isn't even close. Those sales reps are trying to make a living. They naturally are going to say all Sig. stones are wonderful. But don't listen to that!

I found the 1.27 and it looks good. Definitely better than the signature stone and much larger, too!

If I have not already given you these measurements in another thread, here is what you need to use.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0)


Also, there is a screening tool for GIA ex cut stones:

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

You want to see Excellent on light return, fire, and scintillation, and very good on spread. An overall score of 2.0 or lower means a diamond is worth exploring further (but a 1.0 isn’t necessarily better than 1.9).
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,630
flyingpig|1453005179|3977108 said:
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=1172435127&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547
Best so far and certainly larger!

Which one has 34.5/40.8 angles? Nevermind, you were talking about the original 1.17.

Clearly if the 1.27 is in budget at $6471, it's the best choice. If that is over budget, the 1.17 is nice, just smaller.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,175
Now it is all upto you Gnoble.

Both are potentially super ideals. At worst, there are reasonably priced GIA XXX.
VS1 combined with no fluo is, IMO, a safer bet without any photo..
 

Gnoble

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
62
Well it appears that diamond is not available *sigh*. The 1.27C. I will have you guys know I have reached out to GOG to see if they can help me out. I'm thinking perhaps because I can't get as much info as I would like before I buy. I'm hoping between both places I can do this only one more time! I like the fact that GOG has pictures and in most cases has more info about the diamond which I know is what you all have been telling me. With that being said I hope eventually I can be thrilled with what I end up with! I should have put that 1.27 on hold and I didn't. I know however there will be another one to come along meant for me. Again, thank you all for your help! If anyone would like to find another one similar to the measurements of the 1.27 I think I would like to be up in that carat size vs the 1.17.
 
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