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highgear

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
8
Hello, I am considering purchasing a loose round brilliant from a local jeweler. I was hoping to get some feedback from the experienced people here about the stats on it. I have looked at it in person and it looks great to me, but I am certainly no expert. I've done alot of research, but when seeing stones in the flesh it is hard to tell what to look for aside from it being eye clean.

It is a AGS certified H color SI1 at 1.105 carats that scores a 0.8 on the HCA tool. I know between 1.0-2.0 is typically optimal, but how do people here feel about a little less than 1.0?


AGS#: 5850508
Report Type: Diamond Quality™ Document
Shape and Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.63 - 6.66 x 4.10 mm
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Proportions: Ideal
Color Grade: AGS 2.0 (H)
Clarity Grade: AGS 5 (SI1)
Carat Weight: 1.105
Fluorescence: Negligible
Comments:
"AGSL 5850508" has been inscribed on the girdle of this diamond.
Additional clouds are not shown.

Table: 55.0%
Crown Angle: 34.8
Crown Height: 15.6%
Girdle: Faceted, 1.5% to 2.0%
Pavilion Angle: 40.6
Pavilion Depth: 42.8%
Total Depth: 61.7%
Culet: Pointed

When looking at the cert, it showed a small cloud on the edge of the table and I believe an indented natural on one of the edges. I was told this could be completely covered with a prong but I couldn't see it anyways. Anything else I need to be looking for? I was quoted what I believe to be a very good price of around $5500 and there is a lifetime guarantee/refund policy.

Thanks for the help everyone!
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,131
i love the proportion of this stone.. :love: small table with a high crown.. :appl:
 

druidtime

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
44
highgear|1307660019|2942022 said:
Hello, I am considering purchasing a loose round brilliant from a local jeweler. I was hoping to get some feedback from the experienced people here about the stats on it. I have looked at it in person and it looks great to me, but I am certainly no expert. I've done alot of research, but when seeing stones in the flesh it is hard to tell what to look for aside from it being eye clean.

It is a AGS certified H color SI1 at 1.105 carats that scores a 0.8 on the HCA tool. I know between 1.0-2.0 is typically optimal, but how do people here feel about a little less than 1.0?


AGS#: 5850508
Report Type: Diamond Quality™ Document
Shape and Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.63 - 6.66 x 4.10 mm
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Proportions: Ideal
Color Grade: AGS 2.0 (H)
Clarity Grade: AGS 5 (SI1)
Carat Weight: 1.105
Fluorescence: Negligible
Comments:
"AGSL 5850508" has been inscribed on the girdle of this diamond.
Additional clouds are not shown.

Table: 55.0%
Crown Angle: 34.8
Crown Height: 15.6%
Girdle: Faceted, 1.5% to 2.0%
Pavilion Angle: 40.6
Pavilion Depth: 42.8%
Total Depth: 61.7%
Culet: Pointed

When looking at the cert, it showed a small cloud on the edge of the table and I believe an indented natural on one of the edges. I was told this could be completely covered with a prong but I couldn't see it anyways. Anything else I need to be looking for? I was quoted what I believe to be a very good price of around $5500 and there is a lifetime guarantee/refund policy.

Thanks for the help everyone!
A minor cloud and the indented natural doesnt seem bad at all, especially for a SI1. As you mentioned the indented natural can be hidden by one of the ring's prongs. I would advise that on the cert, that it says additional clouds are not shown. That to me would warrant further investigation. I believe that intense light behind the stone may aid you in attempting to see what clouds may be within.

Many tiny clouds spread throughout the stone is one of the reasons a stone would be graded as a SI1, where if it did not exhibit this trait it would have been a higher grade. A plus is that even if you do detect clouds across the stone, at least they were completely eye-clean to you before your extreme examination.

H is a good color. Face up in a RB is pretty white. As far as cut goes, I would be very trusting in the AGS 0 cut grade.
 

highgear

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
8
Thanks Dancing Fire! What does a small table with a high crown generally indicate to you?

Also thanks for your info druidtime. The additional clouds not shown comment did initially worry me, but after some research here through the PS forums I was reading that since it is in the additional comments it was not a big factor for the grading of the stone and therefore is generally not something to worry about. Is this accurate in your opinion? If I was to investigate this further, I should just place the stone over an intense light source and search for the clouds?
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,131
highgear|1307662133|2942048 said:
Thanks Dancing Fire! What does a small table with a high crown generally indicate to you?
more fire!!
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
hmm.. looks like a relatively old report. I would ask the vendor to send it to AGS to do an updated report.
 

highgear

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
8
How are you able to tell it is an old report? Was there any difference in the grading systems when this one was graded?

What are the fees generally like to have a diamond re-graded by AGS?

Would I just be requesting it to see if the diamond is actually still in the condition the report states due to it being old?
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
The lack of additional information on the minor facets points to an old grading report. How old that is will tell more if it is a performance based grading or the much older proportion based grading system.

Cost wise probably not more than 200 as that is the price for a new report. No idea about the actual price as only vendors can send it to AGS. I would update everything again if it is a proportioned based grading system. 40.6 pavilion angle, depending on the averaging and rounding, might have some obstruction isse.
 

highgear

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
8
Ok I just contacted the vendor and found out it was certified in February of 2005, so it looks like it was done under the old grading system. I seriously doubt they are going to pay to send it off and have it re-certified.

Should I start looking for another stone? Anyone have thoughts on how to proceed?
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
They are not going to send the stone back for an update? This is probably a buyback/trade in stone, not likely to be left on the shelf for over 6 years, might have some damage on the stone during that time. I would play it safe and request it to be send back.

Price is quite good, indicating that it is probably a buyback/trade in stone. I would pay for the price of the lab work if the stone comes back with the same or better grade.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,131
Stone-cold11|1307749840|2942946 said:
They are not going to send the stone back for an update? This is probably a buyback/trade in stone, not likely to be left on the shelf for over 6 years, might have some damage on the stone during that time. I would play it safe and request it to be send back.

Price is quite good, indicating that it is probably a buyback/trade in stone. I would pay for the price of the lab work if the stone comes back with the same or better grade.
yup!!
 

highgear

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
8
Ok I've talked with the vendor again and he has stated that he would be willing to send it back and have it re-graded, but the cost is $300. He said that a new report would have no value to him so he will not pay for it either way. Really not sure what to do here, wish I had one of you eagle-eyed pricescopers here to come check it out with me in person!!

Stone-cold, what did you mean by the 40.6 pavilion angle possibly having obstruction issues?

Also, here are the stats on another AGS 000 stone he has that also looks to have an older report and scores a 1.4 on the HCA. What are the thoughts on this one:

AGS#: 2260501
Report Type: Diamond Quality™ Document
Shape and Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.59 - 6.61 x 4.04 mm
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Proportions: Ideal
Color Grade: AGS 1.5 (G)
Clarity Grade: AGS 5 (SI1)
Carat Weight: 1.064
Fluorescence: Faint
Comments:
Additional twinning wisps and surface graining are not shown.
Table: 55.0%
Crown Angle: 34.1
Crown Height: 15.2%
Girdle:
Pavilion Angle: 41.0
Pavilion Depth: 43.1%
Total Depth: 61.2%
Culet: Pointed
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,131
highgear|1307825454|2943522 said:
Ok I've talked with the vendor again and he has stated that he would be willing to send it back and have it re-graded, but the cost is $300. He said that a new report would have no value to him so he will not pay for it either way. Really not sure what to do here, wish I had one of you eagle-eyed pricescopers here to come check it out with me in person!!
the stone might be a pre-owned stone,so w/o a new lab report we don't know if the stone is still in the condition as the report. the girdle may of been chipped since the report was issued.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,103
Can you buy the stone, take it to an independent appraiser (someone who doesnt sell stones and not a friend of this vendor) and
return it if any damage has happened to the stone?
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,775
New report will ensure that an objective authority has evaluated the current condition of the stone, as it is for sale right now, as DF says. AGS changed the cut grading specifications with the new report so the old cut grade may or may not apply anymore, depends how the proportions scan and ray tracing simulation comes out - an old AGS0 cut grade does not command the prestige or premium that the new DQD 0 will.

I would not want to buy from a vendor who could not or would not take that short walk in logic. But if you are set on purchasing from him, the solution is simple: as tyty says take it to an appraiser, buying if necessary (with an idiot-proof return policy in writing). It is $200 well spent.
 

highgear

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
8
Once again, thanks for the responses.

This vendor has a lifetime 100% money back guarantee as one of their main selling points so returning it would definitely not be an issue. They are a highly respected local shop with an A+ BBB rating.

I am considering purchasing the stone and then taking it to an independent appraiser who can run a full performance based report including sarin, idealscope, and ASET scan. If I get this done by a well qualified professional such as Christine York in Houston, the independent appraisal would not be much if any different from a re-certification done by AGS right?

I'm definitely not completely set on purchasing from this vendor and I don't really like that he is unwilling to have it re-graded either. What is keeping me interested is the 100% money back guarantee and the fact that I am finding similar stones online for 1,500-2000 more with only 30 days buyback offered.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,131
highgear|1307905142|2944165 said:
Once again, thanks for the responses.

This vendor has a lifetime 100% money back guarantee as one of their main selling points so returning it would definitely not be an issue. They are a highly respected local shop with an A+ BBB rating.

I am considering purchasing the stone and then taking it to an independent appraiser who can run a full performance based report including sarin, idealscope, and ASET scan. If I get this done by a well qualified professional such as Christine York in Houston, the independent appraisal would not be much if any different from a re-certification done by AGS right?

I'm definitely not completely set on purchasing from this vendor and I don't really like that he is unwilling to have it re-graded either. What is keeping me interested is the 100% money back guarantee and the fact that I am finding similar stones online for 1,500-2000 more with only 30 days buyback offered.
tell him you'll pay for the new ASG lab report,if the stone comes back the same grade or higher then you will buy the stone from him.
 
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