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ae5843

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 16, 2017
Messages
14
I am new to the community...but I am hoping someone can help me. I am looking to get a diamond solitaire, and I came across this stone on on Blue Nile. I was hoping to get some opinions. The only thing that makes me nervous is that it is an SI1 but the GIA report appears very clean. I had the vault manager pull this diamond and it was reported back to me as "eye clean". I put the stats into the Holloway Cut Adviser and it came back at a 1.1 score with excellent light return, fire, and spread... with very good scintillation.

Here is a link to the diamond:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08543619
 
The link doesn't take us to a diamond. :)
 
Definitely pass...it is not well cut. These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.
table: 54-58
depth: 60-62.3
crown angle: 34-35.0 (sometimes 35.5 if the pavilion angle is 40.6)
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

What is your budget and desired specs? We can help you look...
 
This just goes to show how difficult buying diamonds can be! That stone looked great to me! All those Excellent and Ideal ratings. Crazy! So glad I stumbled upon this site to help make better informed choices! <3
 
ac117 said:
Definitely pass...it is not well cut. These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.
table: 54-58
depth: 60-62.3
crown angle: 34-35.0 (sometimes 35.5 if the pavilion angle is 40.6)
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

What is your budget and desired specs? We can help you look...
Click to expand...

I'm confused... I am obviously new to this. This stone graded excellent on the HCA site. It also says it is ideal cut and triple excellent on the GIA report. How can it be cut badly? I was mostly concerned about it being an SI1 but having such a clean report. I was worried it might be cloudy (although the video looks great!)
How can all the specs show it's ideal/excellent and it grades so well on the HCA, but it's still not cut well? Now I'm more lost than ever, haha!

I'm looking for a round diamond, facing up to be 6.9mm+ (the bigger the better), color H+, and to spend about $7700 (or less).
 
The HCA calculator is just a rudimentary tool that consider 4 data points...it should also be used as an exclusionary tool and not as inclusive one. There are several bad combinations that will actually get you a good HCA score but you have to look at the information as a whole...HCA score below 2, angles falling within recommended parameters, photo/video of the stone, light return images.

I'll have a look to see what I find...
 
ac117 said:
The HCA calculator is just a rudimentary tool that consider 4 data points...it should also be used as an exclusionary tool and not as inclusive one. There are several bad combinations that will actually get you a good HCA score but you have to look at the information as a whole...HCA score below 2, angles falling within recommended parameters, photo/video of the stone, light return images.

I'll have a look to see what I find...
Click to expand...

Okay thank you. But if a diamond is graded triple excellent on the GIA report, how can it be cut badly? This is all very confusing. I appreciate your help!
 
ae5843 said:
Okay thank you. But if a diamond is graded triple excellent on the GIA report, how can it be cut badly? This is all very confusing. I appreciate your help!
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the GIA excellent category is very broad and they actually round their numbers, which is why we recommend the parameters we do that fall within AGS 000. AGS has tighter parameters, they don't round numbers and they also grade for light performance. That doesn't mean all GIA excellent stones are cut poorly, it just means that you need to weed out the bad ones.
You'll need to ask if they could get you ideal scopes of these:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2359316
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08164683
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/9222076...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
touch deep but nice light return, G color and should be eye clean: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R130-741Z9Z519?
 
ac117 said:
Unfortunately, the GIA excellent category is very broad and they actually round their numbers, which is why we recommend the parameters we do that fall within AGS 000. AGS has tighter parameters, they don't round numbers and they also grade for light performance. That doesn't mean all GIA excellent stones are cut poorly, it just means that you need to weed out the bad ones.
You'll need to ask if they could get you ideal scopes of these:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2359316
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08164683
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/9222076...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
touch deep but nice light return, G color and should be eye clean: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R130-741Z9Z519?
Click to expand...

Thank you for finding these for me! What is an ideal scope and how do I know if the image is good or bad? (sorry, I am very new)
 
ae5843 said:
Thank you for finding these for me! What is an ideal scope and how do I know if the image is good or bad? (sorry, I am very new)
Click to expand...

Do you think the twinning wisps would affect the sparkle on the blue nile diamond you found? (LD08164683)
you would go with this one rather than the one from my original post? (LD08543619)?

Based on the measurements you gave me, do you think there would be a huge difference in performance between these 2 diamonds?
 
No problem! You just need to do some more reading:
https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/idealscope-overview-and-examples.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/about-aset.htm

If you'd be willing to drop down to I color, you could get a super ideal cut stone like this. WF also offers an amazing upgrade policy, should you ever choose to use it:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3836205.htm
For H color, you'd have to drop in size:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3820557.htm
 
ae5843 said:
Do you think the twinning wisps would affect the sparkle on the blue nile diamond you found? (LD08164683)
you would go with this one rather than the one from my original post? (LD08543619)?

Based on the measurements you gave me, do you think there would be a huge difference in performance between these 2 diamonds?
Click to expand...
You need to have BN pull the stone I recommended and ask them about the twinning wisps. They can sometimes effect transparency but it's difficult to tell from a picture/video.

Yes, there will be a significant difference in performance between these 2 stones. 32.5 is a low crown angle and will result in less fire produced...it is also much shallower with a larger table, coupled with the low crown angle could have more of a flat, glassy but bright look to it.
 
Okay so I'm really interested in the diamond you found for me on BN. they only have ideal scopes for signature ideal diamonds though. So in your opinion, do you think the twinning wisps would affect its excellent cut brilliance? Do you think this would be a good purchase?


ac117 said:
You need to have BN pull the stone I recommended and ask them about the twinning wisps. They can sometimes effect transparency but it's difficult to tell from a picture/video.

Yes, there will be a significant difference in performance between these 2 stones. 32.5 is a low crown angle and will result in less fire produced...it is also much shallower with a larger table, coupled with the low crown angle could have more of a flat, glassy but bright look to it.
Click to expand...
 
Even if they can't provide you with an ideal scope, they should be able to have a gemologist evaluate the stone and tell you if the twinning wisps are a problem or not. Ultimately, it is graded SI1 so there is definitely a possibility of them effecting transparency but I don't have the stone in hand and can't say for certain. I've seen stones where it does and others where it doesn't. Do you have to buy from BN?
This would be great if you could snag it...
http://diamonddealfinder.com/enquiry.php?id_field=6085193 (http://www.kapugems.com/kapuutilnew/search.do?method=load&stoneId=1000963808)
 
ac117 said:
Even if they can't provide you with an ideal scope, they should be able to have a gemologist evaluate the stone and tell you if the twinning wisps are a problem or not. Ultimately, it is graded SI1 so there is definitely a possibility of them effecting transparency but I don't have the stone in hand and can't say for certain. I've seen stones where it does and others where it doesn't. Do you have to buy from BN?
This would be great if you could snag it...
http://diamonddealfinder.com/enquiry.php?id_field=6085193 (http://www.kapugems.com/kapuutilnew/search.do?method=load&stoneId=1000963808)
Click to expand...

I don't have to buy from BN, I just feel comfortable on their site because I've been searching using them for so long, haha. Whenever I have asked them to check a diamond for me, they always just report back if it is eye clean... I guess with this one I'd have to call and see if they can go into more detail.

As for the one in the link you sent me, I'm not seeing a price anywhere. It looks really nice though.
 
I am helping my son find a diamond. He has a limited budget as they are just starting out. He is looking for something around .7 ct round, F-G, VS1-S1 eye clean and ideal cut for around $3500. His girlfriend is very petite, 4'10" 85 lbs so this will look large on her hand. I don't know a lot about diamonds. What does everyone think about these
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2785579
https://www.brilliantlyengaged.com/0.75-carat-e-vs1-ideal-round-cut-diamond-gid-1031406.html
 
I am helping my son find a diamond. He has a limited budget as they are just starting out. He is looking for something around .7 ct round, F-G, VS1-S1 eye clean and ideal cut for around $3500. His girlfriend is very petite, 4'10" 85 lbs so this will look large on her hand. I don't know a lot about diamonds. What does everyone think about these
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2785579
https://www.brilliantlyengaged.com/0.75-carat-e-vs1-ideal-round-cut-diamond-gid-1031406.html
 
THarfam said:
I am helping my son find a diamond. He has a limited budget as they are just starting out. He is looking for something around .7 ct round, F-G, VS1-S1 eye clean and ideal cut for around $3500. His girlfriend is very petite, 4'10" 85 lbs so this will look large on her hand. I don't know a lot about diamonds. What does everyone think about these
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2785579
https://www.brilliantlyengaged.com/0.75-carat-e-vs1-ideal-round-cut-diamond-gid-1031406.html
Click to expand...
Hey you'll probably get more responses if you post this as its own thread instead of hijacking someone else's thread. To do this, click report concern and ask the moderators to move it to its own thread.
 
Thanks, I did! I was having a difficulty figuring out how to start a thread. I got it though :)
 
ac117 said:
Also nice with "safe" numbers but I'd ask for an image/video/ideal scope.
Click to expand...

Even though it's a VVS2? Shouldn't it be basically flawless to the unaided eye? And sparkle like mad with those numbers?
 
In terms of inclusions, yes, practically flawless to the naked eye. The CA and PA are also well within super-ideal parameters. But keep in mind that those two numbers are an average of 8 CAs and 8 PAs. You still want to see an normal image/IS/ASET/video to double check that things are all that one expects them to be for a stone with those parameters.

When GIA measures 75 for the lower girdle facets percentage (as the VVS2 has), it could be actually between 72.5 to 77.49%. If the real LGF percentage is closer to the 72.5 end of the range, you could be getting far too much contrast in the arrows whereas if it's 74-75, it's a nicely proportioned fatter arrow shaft and at the 77.49 end, it'll be what you would normally see in most stones sold by Whiteflash, BGD and the other superideal vendors.
 
Hi OP, you are receiving some great advice. Below is a quick summary about what you should be looking for in a diamond. These are just some good things to remember.

I am pasting an old post from Gypsy:

"Round Diamonds 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. With round diamonds even a GIA triple Excellent is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only (HPD in Europe is good as well). EGL is a bad option: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones generally, though you can. In general, AGS0 trumps HCA though as one examines the actual stone and the other does not.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.

So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD,BE, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. Some AGS0's are better than others though, so pay attention to any ASET or IS provided.

In general with rounds, you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.3. Crown angle 33.5-35. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-40.9 (there is a little give on this). And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA checks for you."

Stick to these proportions:

Table: 54-58
Crown: 34-35 (35.5 is OK with pavilion of 40.6)
Pavilion: 40.6 to 40.9 (41 is ok with crown of 34)
Depth: 59.5 to 62.3

Pricescopers will strongly recommend you do some more background reading before committing to buying a diamond (over 2 cts).

The community here are fantastic, experienced and will help you look for a beautifully cut diamond that would get the best bang for your buck. There are several jewellers with in-house stones here as well, depending on your location.

If you must buy from local jewelers, try your best to stick to the above parameters and you will be much more pleased with the results, once you leave the deceiving halogen lights that saturates any poorly cut diamond with sparkle.
 
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