Opinions on these ruby photos

[elnino2783]

Hey everyone, I was wondering what people thought of these photos from a Ruby I was looking at. It''s a 4 carat ruby if anybody is wondering.

 

[elnino2783]

more pics

 

[elnino2783]

last one

 

[RevolutionGems]

It is definately a native cut stone. The meets are off and the polish is not that good. Obviously it has quite a few inclusion. Color-wise it is not bad though a bit purpl for my taste.

With stones like this you have to be really careful of the treatments used on the stone. It is almost certainly heated (most rubies are ) and that isn''t necessarily a problem. What is a problem, however, is if the stone has be fracture-filled with glass. That particular treatment is not acceptable in the industry.

For stones like ruby you need to make sure you are purchasing from a reputable dealer and certificates are not a bad idea.

In the end though, wht really matters is if you like the stone. Thats all.

 

[Pandora II]

Ditto.

I''m not fussed on it. I would recommend a spinel over a ruby anyday unless you have $$$$$ to spend.

I don''t like opacity of any sort or too many inclusions in any stone that that is not a usual characteristic (ie moonstone). That rules 90% or so of rubies out for me. Spinel doesn''t have these problems and is a great deal cheaper.

 

[LostSapphire]

Pandora - is that a large window at the centre or the lighting?

 

[LostSapphire]

Date: 6/12/2008 7:15:03 PM
Author: LostSapphire
Pandora - is that a large window at the centre or the lighting?

ElNino 2783:

I have to re-write my post above....it sounds snotty. Sorry about that!

I meant to write (and was interrupted immediately after hitting "submit") that the colour is really pretty. But rubies are very expensive, and even in those pics it looks rather opaque. And the dark section in the centre looks to me to be a window...

BUT, Pandora is an expert on coloured stones compared to me! So I guess I typed what I was thinking out loud: I figured she'd know better than I!

 

[Harriet]

I''d pass -- the ruby doesn''t seem to have life.

 

[Pandora II]

It''s difficult to tell because the stone is so included. That will hinder the passage of light through and within the stone.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 6/12/2008 9:19:03 PM
Author: Harriet
I''d pass -- the ruby doesn''t seem to have life.

ETA: To me, it''s showing quite a bit of extinction.

 

[jewelerman]

Some important points have been raised about this stone by Revolutuion. im curious if this stone has been enhanced beyond heat treating.The color is acceptable but the inclusions in this large stone detour from its beauty and will be noticable.How much per carat is this stone?

 

[elnino2783]

Date: 6/13/2008 3:07:37 PM
Author: jewelerman
Some important points have been raised about this stone by Revolutuion. im curious if this stone has been enhanced beyond heat treating.The color is acceptable but the inclusions in this large stone detour from its beauty and will be noticable.How much per carat is this stone?

Truthfully it's an Ebay gem, and was only $20 (20/4.16= $4.08/carat) after shipping. I really got it because I started taking Continuing Education classes at a local community college and wanted to start practicing setting stones. On a side note, my brother bought a similar but oval cut 2ct ruby from the same seller and a jeweler said he had not seen one like that in a long time and was impressed. He also said he would buy it off of my brother for $500 on the spot, all he would do is have to get it out of the atm. My brother said he was gonna hold onto it so the jeweler then said if he were to set it, he would probably not sell it for less than about $4000 (I'm guessing that also had a lot to do with the setting it was being put in).

I'm sure there are differences between mine & his (we live on different coasts, can't compare the two), but picture wise they seem similar in quality enough, mine being a little more inclcuded, but twice the size.

 

[elnino2783]

One more of my brothers.

 

[elnino2783]

And the last one of my brothers.

I also plan to take some GIA classes since my employer covers the costs of any class I wanna take, so then I can also determine things on my own. So I figure theses stones will be good practice as they are cheap. (my brothers costing $60, mine costing $20)

 

[elnino2783]

LostSapphire:


Oh be as honest as you can, that's no problem with me, especially because of where I got it. I'm not too worried though since it only cost $20.

 

[LostSapphire]

 

[chrono]

Comparing the 2 rubies, I would not say the quality is similiar. It is far from similiar: the second ruby is much nicer but I'd still pass on it. It is peppered all the way through with a lot of obvious inclusions, has obvious extinction but the native cut appears to be passable. The meet points are still not precise, the polish not up to par but can be ignored if not viewed up close. I like my rubies with a clear crystal quality - I'd much prefer red spinels which are far more inexpensive yet more beautiful and most rubies. Also has no treatment (although people are trying).

 

[Pandora II]

Totally agree with Chrono, the difference is pretty big between the two stones. Carat weight is also one of the least important 'C's in coloured stones. A poster called Timmy bought a beautiful ruby as an e-ring a year or so ago. It was 1.10ct and cost over $10k.

I would also pass on this stone as well - too many inclusions, cut not great. I think what you paid for your stone is a fair price, and I would expect the same for the second stone judging by the pictures.

I am also suspicious about the colour. I would be very surprised if the stone isn't heat treated and probably fracture filled either with borax or lead glass.

Native dealers know exactly what they are selling and the market value in the main, and are not in the business of losing money, so amazing bargains are thin on the ground. I have done very well on a couple of stones - all garnets - on ebay, where I suspect that they are selling a few loss-leaders as a sales strategy to allow collectors to inspect their product at a risk-free price (in the $60 - $150 range), with the hope that they will return and buy the considerably more expensive pieces.

I have been one of these return customers and I am paying a fair market price for my stones, certainly no bargains.

I would also recommend going with stones like fine garnets or spinels if you want a red stone. They are much less included, untreated and can have extremely fine colour.

To see some examples of top quality rubies, spinels and garnets check out - palagems, cherrypicked and Richard W. Wise's sites.

 

[chrono]

Pandora,
Would you suspect BE treatment? The colour looks too good to be true, even with all the other "faults".

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 6/17/2008 11:11:12 AM
Author: Chrono
Pandora,
Would you suspect BE treatment? The colour looks too good to be true, even with all the other 'faults'.

I am highly suspicious of the colour as I agree it looks just too good to be true.

Rubies aren't a pet subject of mine - and I still haven't managed to lay my hands on Hughes's book, so will do some digging on treatments.

Whether there are colourants added to the flux healing or whether it is just a result of heat treatment I am not sure. I know of BE treatment in sapphires which give that orange colour (does it give others? can't remember...), potentially I would think that an orange BE on a purplish ruby could well give a better red.

Hmmm...

lead glass filling might also be a factor - IIRC the RI is very close to that of corundum compared with some other fillers, which would mean a fair impact on light travel through the stone and would improve the overall performance.

Perhaps someone much more expert on this particular subject could jump in and help on potential treatments.

 

[elnino2783]

Finally got around to taking photos of the ruby on my own. The pictures with flash help to show the internals better, but it is definitely blurry and purplish. Again, I''m not surprised or disappointed considering it was only $20 and was pretty much what I expected. In the right light it looks like something you might get in a piece from a large chain mall jeweler only a little larger.

here is a link to some of the pictures I took:

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/563835075uvuZYF

 

[Pandora II]

Thanks for the extra pics - the stone is definitely heat treated and fracture filled looking at those.

You got what you paid for, so you did pretty well - and it''s through doing this that you learn what to look for and not look for (I have a small collection of pet fugglies myself!

)

 

[purrfectpear]

You have to wonder how much labor they put into a $20 stone ya know? I mean mining it, cutting it, fracture filling, and heat treating? I guess twenty bucks is twenty bucks if you live in a country where that makes a difference, but wow, they sure put forth a lot of effort didn''t they?