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Opinions on JA, WF, and BGD

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NoobInNeed

Rough_Rock
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From my limited experience on this board, it seems that PS members tend to suggest WF and BGD for settings and diamonds. I''m not sure I can find an example where someone suggested a JA or BN item first without being directed to one of those sites with an example. I''m wondering what peoples'' personal opinions are with the entire ring (e-ring to be specific) experience with James Allen, White Flash, and Brian Gavin just to use some of the most popular for example. Do WF and BGD have better cut diamonds? Can you still get a great ring at JA for a bit less money?

I was just thinking that I''ve never purchased a diamond in my life and the PS members are basically experts AFAIC. Will I or my girlfriend be able to notice any increase in quality (if there is in fact an increase with a WF/BGD product) or will I be spending hundreds more and probably compromising size on something that only an experienced diamond lover will appreciate?

Thanks again for everyone''s help and opinions
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JA stones can be just fine. I would suggest JA stones if the person buying is not looking for in-house or H&A stones. Policies of each of the vendors are different, JA''s upgrade policies are harsher (2X value) but applies to all the stones they sold while other vendors'' upgrade policies generally only applies to their in-house/H&A stones.
 
What do you mean by "in-house" stones? Also, how important is H&A quality? Are ex,ex cuts good enough?
 
I think the answer to this depends on what you want exactly, as a previous poster on this thread has said.
Since people are recommending diamonds to you sight unseen on this board I think that they like to be comfortable that they are recommending the very best. WF and GOG and BGD and some of the other most oft-recommended vendors will give out a lot of information on the diamonds, ASET images and so forth, which makes it easier for the experts here to give you an opinion on a specific stone. And they really do give you good, well-thought out opinions based on a lot of experience.

The vendors that they recommend though will tend to be pricier than internet vendors such as BN (and I think JA, but I don''t have any experience with them). However, these vendors are still a great deal less expensive than comparable B & M (brick and mortar)stores.

I have experience with BN though and have gotten beautiful stones from them several times. They are not branded H & A''s though, which some here really want.

I did buy from Whiteflash, when Brian Gavin was working there, and got superb service and superb stones. To tell the truth, though, I see no difference in quality between the diamond in my ring from BN and the diamonds in my earrings from Whiteflash. (Except that the earrings are bigger). All 3 diamonds are AGS 000''s and though two (the earrings) are branded H & A''s, I think the one that is not branded looks just the same. I would actually recommend both vendors very highly and I would buy again from both. Of course, I am not an expert--and it could be, even, that I lucked out with my BN stone. However, I bought other stones from BN and also found them beautiful. The one time that I was unhappy with a stone from there, I was able to make a return with no questions asked--they have a 30 day return period.

I don''t really know what to advise you. You could do searches here on PS on JA and BN and see what their customers would say. There have also been threads discussing this question before.

It depends on what you want. I don''t think I could have gotten the same earrings that I got at Whiteflash at BN because of the better customer at WF--Leslie (who is at BGD now) helped me to think through exactly what I wanted and helped me to source .90 and .91 stones--they made the earrings one style (martinis) and then changed them when that was not what I wanted. I was and am very happy with my stones. It was more pricey than at BN though. It might depend on how clearly you know what you want.
 
Since everyone has discussed the diamond quality I will leave that be, but since you also asked about settings--

I personally feel that James Allen''s setting quality is a bit hit or miss... you have to be very explicit that finish quality matters to you and they do not really do custom design.

WF does custom design and was having some quality control issues, but I have seen no reference to that recently so I assume they''ve cleared it up.

BGD has a reputation for high quality control and custom work. The only issues they have had is some email delivery problems that were either caused by techinical problems or growing pains. Those seem to have worked themselves out too.

I''m not certain but some or all of these vendors may have a haitus on some shipping/custom/buying due to the Passover holiday. So when you call be sure to ask about lead time. Also keep in mind that Mother''s Day is only a little more than a month away and jewelers can be busy at that time.

Which reminds me. I need a Mother''s Day gift. Hmm.
 
Gypsy,

While I appreciate that we have had some qc issues in the past, our current quality control standards are exceptionally high. Every single ring is inspected under 10x magnification by one of the New York gemologists and must pass a 32 point inspection. Finish checkpoints include porosity, file or dent marks on the metal, cracks/breaks, solder flow, rhodium plating, burn marks/patches, milgrain consistency and metal smoothness. We also have a detailed list of items we check relative to the setting and placement of both the center stone and any side stones. We keep a weekly log of all QC failures, discuss, then make adjustments to our processes to reduce the frequency of future problems. This system has been in place since the end of 2009 and is constantly being refined. We aren''t perfect, but I think we are much better than "hit or miss"
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I think that posters also tend to steer people towards vendors that they themselves have used. In my case, I have made purchases from WF and BGD, so those are the vendors that I gravitate to, and tend to steer people towards.
 
ITA - threads like these should all be titled "who''s YOUR favourite PS vendor", because that''s what they inevitably turn out to be!


My favourite PS vendor is WF. I had a good experience with JA. Never worked with BGD.
 
Date: 3/31/2010 9:33:37 AM
Author: geckodani
I think that posters also tend to steer people towards vendors that they themselves have used. In my case, I have made purchases from WF and BGD, so those are the vendors that I gravitate to, and tend to steer people towards.
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I agree. I am going through BGD for my project, and they have been fantastic. I did not get a stone from them, and so am only talking settings here, however, if I was buying a diamond/stone I would absolutely go through BGD as well just based on my experience with them so far and the stones I have seen around here that PS members have purchased from them.

It also depends on what factors are important to you. For me, it was very important to obtain wonderful customer service and good rapport with my "contact person", for them to have the "style" that fits my own style so I knew that they could make what I envisioned, and so forth. I searched for months for a vendor I felt comfortable with. I went with BGD as they could customize some of their settings that I loved, but wanted revisions with for a very reasonable price, I know they are of high quality yet wonderfully in my budget, and I like their design style. I also liked that they offer as standard some things that would cost "extra" elsewhere (such as not charging to set my own stone, and having comfort fit bands, etc), and my contact at BGD has been absolutely WONDERFUL to work with. I just felt I received very personal service, and so for me they just fit to go with. I talked to many of the other PS vendors and I have no complaints about any of them, BGD just worked for me.

All that being said, and there are many vendors that PS members also love besides BGD and WF - many PS members have purchased settings and stones from multiple vendors and designers. It really depends on what you are looking for in respect of style (i.e. elaborate or simple?), budget (i.e. designer, stock mount or semi-custom or custom?), and of course, as you are looking for a diamond, whether you want in-house diamonds, or whose "selection processes" you trust (i.e. images, eye-clean standards?), what shape diamond (i.e. round or cushion?), whether you want to talk to the guy who cut the diamonds himself, or not, etc.

I definitely think an increase in quality IS noticeable over "poor quality", as it will perform better and LOOK better than what might be a larger poor quality stone. The same goes for settings, IMO. I definitely notice a poor quality setting over a high quality one. However, that does not mean that you need to buy the "perfect" stone by PS "perfect standards" in order to get a stunning stone either, or the most expensive setting out there in order to get high quality.

Note that many people also only become "experienced diamond/stone lovers" AFTER they have purchased or received a diamond/stone - so even if your girlfriend is not an experienced diamond lover yet...she may very well become one. This is why many end around here have upgraded ;) I don't even OWN a diamond, and don't intend to anytime soon if ever, but I sure have learned to appreciate them from hanging around on PS and I sure take better notice of people's diamonds in real life now and can see a difference between high-quality stones and low-quality stones!!!
 
I''ve purchased from WF while Brian Gavin was there, and post Brian Gavin. Same gorgeous stones, and good customer service. I''ve also purchased from JA and can say the same. Gorgeous stones, great customer service. I won''t recommend a vendor because i think i you need to look over their policies and decide what works for you.

In reality, most people who come here, are here to learn about diamonds, make the purchase and then leave. They''re not thinking about future upgrades when they don''t even have the first stone yet.
So while BG, WF and I''ll throw GOG into the mix too, offer upgrades, it''s also built into the price structure so they usually cost more.

As far as being able to see the difference betwee a true H&A from an ideal cut, I can''t. And I''ve tried numerous times in various lighting.

If upgrades matter, go with WF or BG. if not, you can most likely get a stone that''s just as nice from JA at less.
 
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to weigh in on this topic. Very helpful.
 
Date: 3/30/2010 7:16:17 PM
Author: NoobInNeed
What do you mean by ''in-house'' stones? Also, how important is H&A quality? Are ex,ex cuts good enough?
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In house diamonds are diamonds that are actually in the house of the vendor so that he can see them and know what they really are. Others sell from virtual lists and have never, never, ever never seen, nor do they want to ever, ever have to actually see the diamonds, they just want to sell them and take their fractional piece of the profit with no fuss, no muss.

As for are ex ex cuts good enough. It depends.

For some, any rock they can afford is good enough. For others, not so good, they want better.

For our in house clients we like to have five or six diamonds of their budget set in a tray and without telling them anything about the diamonds we let their eyes tell them what they like the best, second best, third best, etc. It is amazing to us, how the best cut diamonds are almost always chosen first, REGARDLESS OF COLOR OR CLARITY!

Our experience is similar when sending a gem to be compared to another''s gem with an independant appraiser. It is almost always a case of the best cut gem wins, often even when there is a substantial difference in the price of the best cut and the "good enough" cut.

The only real way for you to know what is "good enough" for you, is for you to see some of the various cuts side by side. Only then will you truly know what you think is "good enough".

Wink
 
Date: 3/31/2010 1:08:14 PM
Author: Wink

In house diamonds are diamonds that are actually in the house of the vendor so that he can see them and know what they really are. Others sell from virtual lists and have never, never, ever never seen, nor do they want to ever, ever have to actually see the diamonds, they just want to sell them and take their fractional piece of the profit with no fuss, no muss.

Wink
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Wink,

I have to take exception to your characterization of the virtual business. We have about 1,000 "in-house" diamonds, but also feature over 20,000 "virtual" diamonds. Every one of those diamonds is photographed, guaranteed available, inspected by a staff gemologist prior to shipment and covered by all of the same polices and guarantees as our in-house inventory. Maybe we''re not your average virtual company, but given Stone-Cold suggested our inventory was not in-house I think clarification of our policies is important and relevant to this thread. Furthermore, your suggestion that virtual companies just want to sell and take their profit is a bit flippant, if not downright disrespectful. Most vendors on this board augment their in-house stock with virtual inventory, including the three named in the subject of this thread.
 
I never said JA stones are not in-house or H&A, I only stated that if the OP is looking for non-in-house/H&A stone, JA will be a better place to look for because of JA''s policies.
 
Date: 3/30/2010 5:15:12 PM
Author:NoobInNeed
From my limited experience on this board, it seems that PS members tend to suggest WF and BGD for settings and diamonds. I''m not sure I can find an example where someone suggested a JA or BN item first without being directed to one of those sites with an example. I''m wondering what peoples'' personal opinions are with the entire ring (e-ring to be specific) experience with James Allen, White Flash, and Brian Gavin just to use some of the most popular for example. Do WF and BGD have better cut diamonds? Can you still get a great ring at JA for a bit less money?

I was just thinking that I''ve never purchased a diamond in my life and the PS members are basically experts AFAIC. Will I or my girlfriend be able to notice any increase in quality (if there is in fact an increase with a WF/BGD product) or will I be spending hundreds more and probably compromising size on something that only an experienced diamond lover will appreciate?

Thanks again for everyone''s help and opinions
21.gif
Click to expand...
Hey,
I was in the same boat as you a few months back....I was torn between Goodoldgood and WF because of all the information that they give on there diamonds. That''s not to say other vendors were no good too but for some reason i keep going back to those 2. In the end i went with WF because had a diamond in the range (price, 4Cs, etc) that i wanted. Honestly i have seen some diamonds in person at retail stores locally and maybe i am bias but my diamond is perfection. I have had many tell me it is insanely beautiful!! I know i sacrificed a little size for quality but when a diamond is close to perfect...the size may not matter (I mean unless we are talking like a half carat or full carat jump)!! You also mentioned will she notice or is it for an expirenced diamond lover?? Personally I also cant wait to share my expirence with my soon to be.....because i feel that she would love to know the time and effort i put in learning about diamonds and how special her''s is!
Just my opinion. Hope that helps!
 
Date: 3/31/2010 9:24:34 AM
Author: James Allen Schultz
Gypsy,

While I appreciate that we have had some qc issues in the past, our current quality control standards are exceptionally high. Every single ring is inspected under 10x magnification by one of the New York gemologists and must pass a 32 point inspection. Finish checkpoints include porosity, file or dent marks on the metal, cracks/breaks, solder flow, rhodium plating, burn marks/patches, milgrain consistency and metal smoothness. We also have a detailed list of items we check relative to the setting and placement of both the center stone and any side stones. We keep a weekly log of all QC failures, discuss, then make adjustments to our processes to reduce the frequency of future problems. This system has been in place since the end of 2009 and is constantly being refined. We aren''t perfect, but I think we are much better than ''hit or miss''
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Click to expand...
I stand corrected. Apologies Jim.
 
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