Opinions on diamond stats/HCA score...

[matt_k]

Hi, I was hoping to get some opinions on the hard numbers of a diamond I'm looking at, plus your overall assessment of its HCA score. Thanks!

Table% 59
Depth% 59.3
Crown % 13.0%
Crown angle 32.5
Star % 75%
Pavilion % 43.5
Pavilion angle 41.0

HCA score: 1.0 (TIC range)

Light return: EX
Fire: EX
Scintillation: very good
Spread: EX

 

[matt_k]

Hi, I was hoping to get some opinions on the hard numbers of a diamond I'm looking at, plus your overall assessment of its HCA score. Thanks!

Table% 59
Depth% 59.3
Crown % 13.0%
Crown angle 32.5
Star % 75%
Pavilion % 43.5
Pavilion angle 41.0

HCA score: 1.0 (TIC range)

Light return: EX
Fire: EX
Scintillation: very good
Spread: EX

Oh, and here are the numbers/HCA on another stone I'm trying to decide on:

Table 56
Depth 61.6
Crown % 15%
Crown angle 34.5
Star % 75
Pavilion % 43
Pavilion angle 41

HCA 1.7 (TIC range)
Light return: EX
fire: very good
Scintillation: very good
spread: very good

Just by looking at the numbers and HCA scores, which one do you prefer?

 

[TODiamonds]

To answer your question directly, I'd prefer the second one because I'm not a fan of shallow stones (unless for an earring).

More importantly, the two stones you're comparing are like apples vs oranges. One is a 60/60'ish stone and the other is a more typical RB cut. They will have completely different personalities. Forget what the HCA says. HCA has a bias towards shallower stones.

Rather than comparing stones on paper, you should be looking at stones in real life to see what your own eyes prefer.

 

[lovedogs]

I agree that you are comparing very different stones, so a lot of it depends on your personal preference. Do you have ASET images, or pictures/videos?

 

[sledge]

Forget what the HCA says. HCA has a bias towards shallower stones.

This is bad advice.

I agree the HCA isn't perfect, but most people don't understand the proportions well enough to understand why stone A or stone B is a better choice, or maybe why neither are good candidates.

In that regards the HCA helps people at least get in the ballpark of what could work. Sure, it takes additional analysis from that point but it's an elimination tool, not a final decision making tool.

I am in agreement the two stones will have different personalities and that some viewing in real life is helpful to determine which personality is preferred. However, if shopping online that may be difficult. Obviously going to local stores to view stones is the logical answer but to compare these personalities you need two stones with near identical proportions in the local store to get that comparison.

Assuming both stones are the same carat weight, one advantage of stone A with the larger table and shallower crown is it likely has a little more spread than stone B as the carat weight is pushed out in spread vs down in depth. Also the stone will produce more white light return which some may prefer. Although a shallow crown, it is offset by a complimentary steep 41 pavilion and 75 LGF's which should help produce some rainbow light/fire. Of course, this is all assumptions as we know GIA rounds and averages both crown and pavilion angles that are provided on the lab report.

Many find a 33/41 combo in a 60/60 stone very desirable. There are catches. One being the rounding and averaging, already mentioned. Cross an actual 41.2 pavilion and you may get leakage. Of course that would apply to both stone A and B as they both have 41 pavilions.

Speaking of stone B pavilion, did the pavilion depth get typed correctly at 43.0%? Doing the math it appears it should be 43.5

Tan(41) * 50 = 43.464, which rounded would be 43.5

This would make me think maybe the pavilion angles are at 41 or slightly less, which is a positive with the 34.5 crown.

As already noted an ASET would tell us more. While I've seen a few nice 34.5/41 combos they aren't always without issues and makes it difficult to recommend without more data.

I guess my bigger question would be why are the choices limited to these two stones? If criteria and budget is provided along with any other restraints, then maybe we could offer a more risk free option.

 

[TODiamonds]

This is bad advice.

I agree the HCA isn't perfect, but most people don't understand the proportions well enough to understand why stone A or stone B is a better choice, or maybe why neither are good candidates.

In that regards the HCA helps people at least get in the ballpark of what could work. Sure, it takes additional analysis from that point but it's an elimination tool, not a final decision making tool.

I am in agreement the two stones will have different personalities and that some viewing in real life is helpful to determine which personality is preferred. However, if shopping online that may be difficult. Obviously going to local stores to view stones is the logical answer but to compare these personalities you need two stones with near identical proportions in the local store to get that comparison.

Assuming both stones are the same carat weight, one advantage of stone A with the larger table and shallower crown is it likely has a little more spread than stone B as the carat weight is pushed out in spread vs down in depth. Also the stone will produce more white light return which some may prefer. Although a shallow crown, it is offset by a complimentary steep 41 pavilion and 75 LGF's which should help produce some rainbow light/fire. Of course, this is all assumptions as we know GIA rounds and averages both crown and pavilion angles that are provided on the lab report.

Many find a 33/41 combo in a 60/60 stone very desirable. There are catches. One being the rounding and averaging, already mentioned. Cross an actual 41.2 pavilion and you may get leakage. Of course that would apply to both stone A and B as they both have 41 pavilions.

Speaking of stone B pavilion, did the pavilion depth get typed correctly at 43.0%? Doing the math it appears it should be 43.5

Tan(41) * 50 = 43.464, which rounded would be 43.5

This would make me think maybe the pavilion angles are at 41 or slightly less, which is a positive with the 34.5 crown.

As already noted an ASET would tell us more. While I've seen a few nice 34.5/41 combos they aren't always without issues and makes it difficult to recommend without more data.

I guess my bigger question would be why are the choices limited to these two stones? If criteria and budget is provided along with any other restraints, then maybe we could offer a more risk free option.

That's all fine and dandy but you don't find it the least bit disturbing that the OP is asking for opinions purely based on paper stats and HCA scores? Not even a single picture of either stone... Unfortunately a common theme among threads on PS

OP is staring at the HCA seeing "excellent" vs "very good" and probably thinks one is better than the other. The fact that OP is considering two stones that are virtually polar opposites suggests he/she hasn’t seen many in real life so from that perspective I think my advice to forget the HCA and look at actual stones is rather practical and spot on.

And HCA isn't always effective even as a disqualification tool. Tons of ridiculously shallow stones get ideal HCA scores...

I think it would be somewhat irresponsible to give advice on which to pick without even seeing what these stones look like...

 

[OoohShiny]

It would be nice if we had stores within easy reach that stocked well-cut 60/60 stones and stones within 'SuperIdeal' (or even just 'Ideal') ranges, to enable viewing and better understanding of the options, but it seems totally impossible to find them in general B&M stores, which is really not very helpful for consumers!

 

[matt_k]

thanks so much for all the feedback, gang! i really appreciate it. i should have pics, scope images, etc by the middle of next week, actually--- so i'll be sure to post 'em soon(and ask for more advice).


oh, and the GIA report DOES list 43.0 % on the pav. depth for stone B, by the way.


i'll explain the particulars of my situation soon as far as why i'm leaning on just these two diamonds at this time(plus ask for even more advice if the light return is not good on these puppies).


also: i actually own a 1.164 J SI1 brian gavin blue that i bought at a terrific price for 10% off during a sale about 4 years ago, so i'm not a total newbie. haha. i love the stone, but it's just not large enough. so what i'm considering is sacrificing the perfect light performance of a brian gavin signature diamond in exchange for good overall light performance, significantly larger size, AND a killer price.

 

[ringo865]

Can you trade up at Brian Gavin?

 

[lovedogs]

Can you trade up at Brian Gavin?

That sounds like the best option.

 

[matt_k]

That sounds like the best option.

THAT would be an awesome option, for sure. but i'm not in a position to pay the substantial $ it would take to upgrade to a significantly larger signature stone, unfortunately. so i'm trying to get the best possible cut, size, and price for a good diamond from their virtual selection in order to get to 1.5 carats(and hopefully nabbing a J or a K with blue fluoresence in an SI1 or SI2 in order for it to face up as white as possible on a tight budget).

 

[lovedogs]

THAT would be an awesome option, for sure. but i'm not in a position to pay the substantial $ it would take to upgrade to a significantly larger signature stone, unfortunately. so i'm trying to get the best possible cut, size, and price for a good diamond from their virtual selection in order to get to 1.5 carats(and hopefully nabbing a J or a K with blue fluoresence in an SI1 or SI2 in order for it to face up as white as possible on a tight budget).

But doesn't that mean you'll end up paying more, since you won't get any $ from trading up and/or re-selling it back to them? Or maybe I'm wrong about their upgrade policy or your other stone was really whit/clean so you can't feasibly upgrade with them (which I think is a 2/3 policy of carat/color/clarity)?

 

[TODiamonds]

What are the proportions on your current BG stone? If you love it (except the size) then I'd just get the same kind of cut again.

Just to be clear are you selling the BG to finance the new stone?

 

[matt_k]

Hoping to upgrade (still waiting to hear back). but if not, if I could get within 90% of the price I paid for my super ideal I would probably pull the trigger in order to have the $ necessary to take a shot at a bigger selection of diamonds (like at blue Nile or James Allen) with good light return and significant size(like at least a 1.5) in a lower color grade( a K or even an L with strong blue fluorescence to help whiten the appearance and lower the price).


What do you guys think of the numbers on this 1.710 L VS2 with strong blue fluorescence:

Table 56
Depth 62.2
Crown angle 35.5
Crown%15%
Star 55%
Pavilion angle 40.8
Pavilion % 43%
LGW 85%

THIN-MED

It scored a 2.2 on the HCA calculator. The price seems good, all things Considered. Does strong blue fluorescence generally help an L color face up a bit more white? I've heard conflicting theories about fluorescence helping to brighten the higher color grades.

Thanks!

 

[OoohShiny]

A touch steep/deep with that crown/pavilion combo but HCA of 2.2 suggests it should still perform decently. As ASETscope image would help confirm cutting accuracy and any leakage issues.

Should LGW be LGF (Lower Girdle Facets)? 85% is going to be very narrow 'arrows' and be likely to give a 'splintery' light return that gives more white light than coloured fire, although the high crown and small table might balance that out somewhat.

Fluor will only occur in environments with UV light present, and different stones react differently to the different wavelengths of UV light, so the stone would need assessment in person to check for any negative effects, ideally. L would likely look somewhat tinted in flat indoors lighting environments - which is neither good nor bad, it is just a colour - it is personal preference as to whether or not you like it.

This wiki page has info on fluor:

Diamond Fluorescence: Everything You Need To Know

How is diamond fluorescence graded? Will I see fluorescence in diamonds? Learn how fluorescence impacts diamond value here.

www.pricescope.com

but do a search for fluorescence and sort by date, as there has been at least one thread recently with useful info and discussions. The Trade members don't necessarily agree entirely, so it can be hard going getting through the whole thread(s) lol, but then the point of PS is to encourage education and discussion, so it is a useful learning tool!

 

[matt_k]

What are the proportions on your current BG stone? If you love it (except the size) then I'd just get the same kind of cut again.

Just to be clear are you selling the BG to finance the new stone?

Welp, it looks like upgrading a signature Stone to a virtual selection diamond at BGD isn't an option. And to be perfectly honest, the pickings are very slim there. Oof. Considering my tight budget, I just wouldn't be able to upgrade to 1.5 carats (or slightly more) for a Brian Gavin signature diamond. My 1.17 J SI1 Brian Gavin blue is fantastic, but it just isn't large enough. so I guess I'm definitely going to have to sell it. And I have zero experience I that sort of arena..... so I guess I will need to start looking through the threads here to find out my best option for where and how to sell my old diamond to get as close as I can to the original price I paid for it.

 

[matt_k]

What are the proportions on your current BG stone? If you love it (except the size) then I'd just get the same kind of cut again.

Just to be clear are you selling the BG to finance the new stone?

Oh, and the hard numbers on my old Brian Gavin blue 1.164 J SI1 round brilliant-cut diamond are:

6.73 ×6.76× 4.17

Table 55.9
Depth 61.9
Crown % 15%
Crown angle 34.80
Star 52.0
LGF 78
Pavilion angle 40.70
Pavilion % 43.0

It's like a little mini Disco ball, and it faces up icy white. I went with an 18 k rose gold bezel setting (the LOLA setting from scholdt, which is very sleek and stunning) just because I wanted to contrast a rose gold engagement ring with the Platinum wedding band(complete with 7 little diamonds equalling .52 carats) I picked out, which does indeed make a KILLER combo. But THAT diamond is plenty white enough to be set in Platinum or white gold(I LOVE the way it flashes and looks even whiter in bright sunlight). I even have two little surprise stones inside the inner shank--- a tiny pink sapphire and a tiny blue sapphire. It's a great Ring (although a painful reminder of an engagement that went South ).

 

[matt_k]

A touch steep/deep with that crown/pavilion combo but HCA of 2.2 suggests it should still perform decently. As ASETscope image would help confirm cutting accuracy and any leakage issues.

Should LGW be LGF (Lower Girdle Facets)? 85% is going to be very narrow 'arrows' and be likely to give a 'splintery' light return that gives more white light than coloured fire, although the high crown and small table might balance that out somewhat.

Fluor will only occur in environments with UV light present, and different stones react differently to the different wavelengths of UV light, so the stone would need assessment in person to check for any negative effects, ideally. L would likely look somewhat tinted in flat indoors lighting environments - which is neither good nor bad, it is just a colour - it is personal preference as to whether or not you like it.

This wiki page has info on fluor:

Diamond Fluorescence: Everything You Need To Know

How is diamond fluorescence graded? Will I see fluorescence in diamonds? Learn how fluorescence impacts diamond value here.

www.pricescope.com

but do a search for fluorescence and sort by date, as there has been at least one thread recently with useful info and discussions. The Trade members don't necessarily agree entirely, so it can be hard going getting through the whole thread(s) lol, but then the point of PS is to encourage education and discussion, so it is a useful learning tool!

Thanks so much for your thoughtful response, and all the helpful information. I'm sure that 2.2 HCA diamond is nothing to write home about, you are correct. Like I mentioned, the virtual selection at Brian Gavin is pretty slim pickings. But as I also mentioned, I won't be saddled with THAT selection after all because they will not upgrade a Brian Gavin signature for a virtual selection diamond. So I'll have to roll up my sleeves and try to get as much money as I can from selling by old Brian Gavin signature blue RBC. And THEN I will have the option of combing through much larger diamond inventories at James Allen and blue Nile. I fully realize that I will be sacrificing significant light performance in comparison to a signature cut super ideal no matter what diamond I choose... but I'm just trying to make a good balance of quality cut, good size, and at least a K color on a relatively I eye-clean si2 in order to get as much bang for my buck as possible. And I'm also looking for medium to strong blue fluorescence as well to help drive cost down (plus I just REALLY love blue fluorescence). I'm tentatively shooting for a budget of no more than $7,000 for the diamond(preferably a little less). That way if I'm able to recoup at least six grand from my old diamond I'll only be out of pocket an additional $1,000 (plus the cost of another setting--- which will probably be the plain bezel setting with the 2 mm band at James Allen in 14 k rose gold).

Fingers crossed!

 

[sledge]

I also bought my wife a BGD Blue stone.

As you are aware, to get 100% trade-in value of the original stone you normally have to upgrade 2 of the following 3 C's with BGD: color, clarity or cart weight.

A few thoughts have crossed my mind:

1. Could you sweet talk Lesley and the BGD team into accepting a jump from Blue to Signature as one of the upgrade criteria (in lieu of color, clarity or carat weight). If so, then upgrading the size would fulfill the second criterion. Problem solved, if they bite.

2. Could you jump to a 1.5ct K/L VS2 stone? You'd pay a little more for the bump in VS2 clarity but lowering the color may help offset the difference. Getting 100% trade value would be the win here, as selling in the open market isn't going to fair well for you.

A few options:

BGD Signature 1.527 K VS2 @ $8,985 (before trade adjustment)

1.527 K VS2 Signature Round

Buy diamonds online - AGS graded 1.527 carat K VS2 Round super ideal cut Brian Gavin Hearts & Arrows Diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

BGD Signature 1.623 K VS1 @ $9,843 (before trade adjustment)

1.623 K VS1 Signature Round

Buy diamonds online - AGS graded 1.623 carat K VS1 Round super ideal cut Brian Gavin Hearts & Arrows Diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

BGD Signature 1.538 J VS2 @ $10,570 (before trade adjustment)

1.538 J VS2 Signature Round

Buy diamonds online - AGS graded 1.538 carat J VS2 Round super ideal cut Brian Gavin Hearts & Arrows Diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

3. How long have you owned the stone? If a year or less, you could ask them to honor the buyback policy. It would get you 70% of the BGD Blue value.

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/policies

 

[matt_k]

I also bought my wife a BGD Blue stone.

As you are aware, to get 100% trade-in value of the original stone you normally have to upgrade 2 of the following 3 C's with BGD: color, clarity or cart weight.

A few thoughts have crossed my mind:

1. Could you sweet talk Lesley and the BGD team into accepting a jump from Blue to Signature as one of the upgrade criteria (in lieu of color, clarity or carat weight). If so, then upgrading the size would fulfill the second criterion. Problem solved, if they bite.

2. Could you jump to a 1.5ct K/L VS2 stone? You'd pay a little more for the bump in VS2 clarity but lowering the color may help offset the difference. Getting 100% trade value would be the win here, as selling in the open market isn't going to fair well for you.

A few options:

BGD Signature 1.527 K VS2 @ $8,985 (before trade adjustment)

1.527 K VS2 Signature Round

Buy diamonds online - AGS graded 1.527 carat K VS2 Round super ideal cut Brian Gavin Hearts & Arrows Diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

BGD Signature 1.623 K VS1 @ $9,843 (before trade adjustment)

1.623 K VS1 Signature Round

Buy diamonds online - AGS graded 1.623 carat K VS1 Round super ideal cut Brian Gavin Hearts & Arrows Diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

BGD Signature 1.538 J VS2 @ $10,570 (before trade adjustment)

1.538 J VS2 Signature Round

Buy diamonds online - AGS graded 1.538 carat J VS2 Round super ideal cut Brian Gavin Hearts & Arrows Diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

3. How long have you owned the stone? If a year or less, you could ask them to honor the buyback policy. It would get you 70% of the BGD Blue value.

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/policies

Thanks for the advice! I've actually looked at all of those diamonds, and they are amazing. But significantly out of my price range. About a month ago I almost upgraded to the 1.517 L VS2 Brian Gavin blue listed at $7,600. It did look nice, but there was just something about buying an L color diamond for that much money that didn't sit well with me. ‍ Ideally I would like to stay in the K range(with blue fluorescence, if possible). Basically, if I'm going to pay almost $8,000 for an L color diamond I would want it to be at least a 1.70 carat. And jumping to a VS2 just seems like a waste of money to me that could be put to better use on size. A relatively eye-clean si2 would be tremendous, but the only one they currently offer is an advanced selection at $8,400(I came VERY close to pulling the trigger on that one, but changed my mind due to budget restraints). See, I bought my diamond roughly four years ago during a 10% off sale at BGD. So I only paid $5,600 for it. Upgrading to the diamonds you mentioned (or even the $8,400 SI2) would mean shelling out no less than $2,800 more dollars, plus another thousand or so for the setting. My savings have gotten really tight, and I just can't justify that. So if I am unable to get at least $5,000 from selling my old diamond I'll just have to wait for another signature cut si2 to come along (either I the general listings or via advance selection ) at Brian Gavin.... hopefully in a k or an L and just a hair under 1.5 carats to help bring down price to meet my budgeting criteria.

 

[sledge]

FYI, the likelihood of you getting $6k back out of your stone is about slim to zero. I think you'd be lucky to get 70% back and probably more like 50-60%.

Just quick math....

Option 1: Sell BGD and get a GIA XXX stone
$6,000 x 70% = $4,200 - $7,000 = $2,800 out of pocket

Option 2: Trade up to 1.527 K VS2 noted above
$6,000 full credit - $8,985 = $2,985 out of pocket

Keep in mind, option 1 scenario gets worse if you don't actually get 70% on the used market. So for roughly $200 difference, you can make the trade happen tomorrow, get a superbly cut stone and be eligible to trade up again later (despite restrictions).

Unless your relationship with BGD is strained, I don't see the win for you to sell your BGD stone and grab a GIA XXX stone with even worse upgrade policy (normally 2x amount and sometimes conditions the duration/frequency of trades).

Lastly, earlier you asked about strong fluor and a K stone. With BGD Blue stones, Brian & Lesley do the vetting to ensure you get a quality fluor stone without hazy/milky/oily issues. When you shop the open market, you need to do the vetting for yourself. As fluor intensity increases, so do the odds of finding a stone with issues.

More importantly it sounds like you want strong fluor as a way to beat the color grade. IMO, that's the wrong outlook. Fluor requires certain frequencies of UV/VV radiation and then the intensity of that UV/VV source comes into play with the intensity of the fluor in the stone. Long story short, in an ideal situation you may enjoy a minor color bump, but in situations where you don't have sufficient UV/VV radiation then the stone isn't going to fluorescence and you won't get any color benefit. So you better be able to live with a K color all the time, or you need to bump up your minimum color requirements.

 

[sledge]

We cross posted, so the math in my above post (#21) will be off a little as I didn't see you got a 10% discount when you purchased.

 

[Stephan]

I would follow sledge advice and talk to Brian and Lesley.
If they know you are searching to upgrade, they will be helpful.
I personally love K and L diamonds, as long the tint is light yellow (no brown or grey).
I once bought a "I" color from Bluenile, and it was grey like coal.
So buying a vetted diamond is important to me.

 

[coda72]

Like other people have already advised you, you would do best to upgrade through BG. You should email Lesley and let her know what you’re looking for. It might be not a long wait at all. I recently upgraded and was very specific about what I wanted, and I only waited a couple of weeks before Lesley emailed me back saying they had a stone for me.

 

[TODiamonds]

Welp, it looks like upgrading a signature Stone to a virtual selection diamond at BGD isn't an option. And to be perfectly honest, the pickings are very slim there. Oof. Considering my tight budget, I just wouldn't be able to upgrade to 1.5 carats (or slightly more) for a Brian Gavin signature diamond. My 1.17 J SI1 Brian Gavin blue is fantastic, but it just isn't large enough. so I guess I'm definitely going to have to sell it. And I have zero experience I that sort of arena..... so I guess I will need to start looking through the threads here to find out my best option for where and how to sell my old diamond to get as close as I can to the original price I paid for it.

Realistically you should expect to get 50% of what you paid. Maybe a bit more if you are very patient and find the right buyer who actually 1) has knowledge of and appreciates branded diamonds; and 2) likes fluorescent diamonds. The majority of private individual diamond buyers out there (which is who you want to sell to if you want to get the most value back) will fall into neither of those categories.

If you had a more liquid diamond that has a broader demand base (like a standard GIA XXX) then maybe you'd have a better shot at recuperating meaningful value, but given how niche your stone is, you will get fleeced in the secondary market unless you get extremely lucky. Most people will value it like regular GIA XXX fluorescent stone - in other words it will be heavily discounted. It's virtually a lock that you will fare better going the upgrade route.

 

[Alexiszoe]

Do you think it's likely you might upgrade again down the line after this purchase?

If you do, I would suggest instead that you sell the stone you have now. This frees up your options to buy from another vendor that's not necessarily super ideal but offers a better selection and value e.g. James Allen, Blue Nile etc, and whom you can easily upgrade again later if you choose to do so.

I was in a similar situation many years ago and chose to upgrade with the same super ideal vendor i purchased from.

However down the line when I was considering my 2nd upgrade, I realize they didn't have much much in stock at the size, color and clarity I wanted - and to fit my budget I would have to go down considerably in one of the Cs compared to buying from Blue Nile, which had a much bigger selection and was cheaper.

Speaking from experience, it's true there would be a 30% to 50% loss from selling the stone, but better to sell it now than to sell a bigger stone later where the dollar amount lost would be higher.

You can consider selling your stone through consignment with one of the vendors e.g. GoodoldGold, Jewels by Grace.

 

[ringo865]

Could you halo it while you save more money for a tradeup or outright purchase?

 

[sledge]

It's a great Ring (although a painful reminder of an engagement that went South ).

Very sorry to hear this.

Based on your user name it sounds like you were probably the purchaser of the stone, but for those lurking or reading along it might be good to understand that many upgrade programs are limited to the person that made the purchase. Some vendors will include the spouse/wearer but not everyone has that policy and it rarely extends to anyone outside the original purchaser & spouse.

It may sound weird to consider this, but it could be important. What if the person that buys the stone passes away unexpectedly? The stone may no longer be eligible for upgrades. Or if a stone is inherited when a family member passes away, then it is rarely eligible for upgrade.

Realistically you should expect to get 50% of what you paid. Maybe a bit more if you are very patient and find the right buyer who actually 1) has knowledge of and appreciates branded diamonds; and 2) likes fluorescent diamonds. The majority of private individual diamond buyers out there (which is who you want to sell to if you want to get the most value back) will fall into neither of those categories.

If you had a more liquid diamond that has a broader demand base (like a standard GIA XXX) then maybe you'd have a better shot at recuperating meaningful value, but given how niche your stone is, you will get fleeced in the secondary market unless you get extremely lucky. Most people will value it like regular GIA XXX fluorescent stone - in other words it will be heavily discounted. It's virtually a lock that you will fare better going the upgrade route.

LOL, yes, the answer to the world's problems -- buy a GIA XXX stone. You will magically get more money from it. And all the cuts are absolutely "excellent" too.

Do you think it's likely you might upgrade again down the line after this purchase?

If you do, I would suggest instead that you sell the stone you have now. This frees up your options to buy from another vendor that's not necessarily super ideal but offers a better selection and value e.g. James Allen, Blue Nile etc, and whom you can easily upgrade again later if you choose to do so.

I was in a similar situation many years ago and chose to upgrade with the same super ideal vendor i purchased from.

However down the line when I was considering my 2nd upgrade, I realize they didn't have much much in stock at the size, color and clarity I wanted - and to fit my budget I would have to go down considerably in one of the Cs compared to buying from Blue Nile, which had a much bigger selection and was cheaper.

Speaking from experience, it's true there would be a 30% to 50% loss from selling the stone, but better to sell it now than to sell a bigger stone later where the dollar amount lost would be higher.

You can consider selling your stone through consignment with one of the vendors e.g. GoodoldGold, Jewels by Grace.

Agree. If you want out of the BGD ecosystem, now is the least painful time to make the jump.

However, the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Places like JA and BN have their own conditions for upgrades as well. Mainly you have to spend 2x the original amount. So if you enter for $7k then your next stone will need to be $14k+ to get the value back.

And with BN, if you are an international customer the upgrade program is on a "case by case" basis.

Lifetime Upgrade - The James Allen Guarantee

Any loose diamond purchased from James Allen can be exchanged at 100% credit for any replacement diamond of at least two times or greater value. Conditions apply.

www.jamesallen.com

Diamond Upgrade Program Information | Blue Nile

Blue Nile offers a lifetime diamond upgrade program on all GIA and AGSL certified diamonds purchased from us. Call us for more information on upgrading your diamond.

www.bluenile.com

Yadav Diamonds and Jewelry | Natural & Lab Diamonds

Yadav Diamonds and Jewelry - https://www.yadavjewelry.com

www.yadavjewelry.com

Rather that is a better option for certain buyers is something only each person can determine for themselves.

I personally think an upgrade program like HPD or WF is the most flexible and beneficial. But it doesn't offer the OP an option for a stone with fluor above faint.

Lifetime Upgrade Guarantee | Whiteflash

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Could you halo it while you save more money for a tradeup or outright purchase?

Good idea. Based on the OP's last response about money being tight, etc perhaps now isn't the most beneficial time to do an upgrade.

 

[lovedogs]

I didnt say you'll get more money from it - I said you'd recuperate a higher % of the original value from a Standard GIA xxx due to the higher liquidity and demand for that asset relative to a premium niche stone like a BG Blue. Do you not agree?

That's definitely not true. Why would that be right? GIA XXX stones from B&M stores are comically overpriced and worth fractions of what people paid.

 

[matt_k]

Thanks so much for your feedback, gang. I really appreciate it. I'm definitely in a pickle: 70% of $5,600 sure isn't much to work with (even though I'm aiming for staying around $6,800 tops for the stone, and then roughly $800 for a solitaire bezel setting at James allen). But at the same time, trying to achieve the 1.5 carat mark via upgrade at Brian Gavin would have me spending more than I want to spend(especially since I don't want to drop any lower than K on color). I could actually achieve my upgrade goal if BGD had a si2 1.5 carat K with blue fluorescence because the SI2 clarity AND fluorescence would significantly lower price... but Leslie has already informed me THAT particular set of parameters in a signature diamond is very rarely offered at BGD. I was actually hoping they would offer an SI1 or SI2 blue just a hair under 1.5 carats in order to bring cost down even more, but she said those are even more rare.

At this point I will probably either have to compromise quite a bit on a si2 stone with fluorescence at either James Allen or Blue Nile in order to achieve the size and price I want, OR just keep my fingers crossed that a Brian Gavin blue that meets my criteria will pop up in the next six months or so (hell, I could even wait longer for it... as wedding bells are NOT in the air any time soon for THIS dude, to be sure ‍).