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Opinions on a Untreated Ruby

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Rough_Rock
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
32
Hello my PS family!

Haven't been posting lately but have been creeping here and there. I potentially am going to be adding this Untreated Ruby thought to be from Mozambique.

Certified untreated from AIGS I know Psers love to recommend AGL for expensive stone purchases but for now this is what I am working with.

This Ruby comes from my most trusted vendor and I was told that this faces up fairly large and because of the cut the center of the ruby does not have as much brilliance but I cant tell if it has a window.

I've been told fine african rubies of untreated, vivid red and over 2 carats are getting more harder to find in the market place and prices are supposely going up and are getting close to the flux healed burmese rubies.

Anyone in the trade can confirm this?

I am eager to hear what you all think, I am really considering the purchase because I need a 2 ct Ruby of untreated status.
Keeping in mind what Richard Hughes says in "ruby connoisseurship" that "In analyzing this gem we must first realize the perfect ruby does not exist."

http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/ruby_connoisseurship.htm

Opinions and thoughts?

204_report.jpg

204a.jpg

204b.jpg

204c.jpg
 
Is it always black in the middle?
 
I've been told fine african rubies of untreated, vivid red and over 2 carats are getting more harder to find in the market place and prices are supposely going up and are getting close to the flux healed burmese rubies.


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Price for most of the clean unheated vivid red African are higher than H(a) burmese now. At least that's what I got from the recent market because I'm looking for a nice ruby myself, couldn't decide to buy H(a) Burmese or unheated Mozambique for the same carat weight. Both certified by GRS or GIA as vivid red/pigeon blood red. And yes, GIA put trade color name in their certificate now.
 
Marlow|1405102583|3711467 said:
Is it always black in the middle?
Click to expand...

Could be camera shadow, but not sure.

I'm unfamiliar with current ruby prices. I tend to stay away from rubies because they've either gone under some sort of enhancement I cannot tolerate, and/or the color isn't that great, especially for the price. Nothing is more beautiful than a top ruby though, but I can't afford one. The stone above is pretty despite the camera shadow, but I don't trust AIGS for rubies. I would have to get an AGL, even a gem brief.

If you're considering that stone, make sure the vendor has a rock solid return policy and they should allow you to get an AGL gem brief during the return period. If not, I would skip it.
 
epgs: The color of the ruby looks good around the perimeter, but I do not like the dark center. Is the center always dark or is it a camera effect as TL suggested? The color that you see is what's important. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the descriptive terms used in the reports. I am not familiar with AIGS, but I have seen some rubies described in GRS reports as 'vivid pigeon blood' that look way too dark. It is true that it is difficult to find a fine unheated ruby, but stones around 2 carat from Mozambique are still available. It depends on what you are willing to pay. Dealers know their stones, so there are no bargains out there for fine unheated rubies, especially from Burma, unless you find an old one from an estate.
AN
 
Marlow|1405102583|3711467 said:
Is it always black in the middle?
Click to expand...
Good thing to look into.
 
First thing I noticed was the black/dark middle. Need to see shots -without the hand.
 
First thing I noticed was the black/dark middle. Need to see shots -without the hand.
 
Am I the only one who likes it?!
 
My concern would be with the black centre too. I wonder what causes that. The cut, the material, or the camera?
 
The colour around the edges is beautiful however because you can't tell if it has a window (and neither can we) --- ask the question of the vendor.

Ask if it's always black in the middle because if it were me, I think after a while seeing the brightness only around the outside would begin to grate on me.

I also agree about asking for different photos on a light background. It's depth is just 4.49mm - don't know if that's enough to ask maybe Jerry Newman about recutting the pavilion if that turns out to be the only problem and you're willing to go that route.
 
Great color around the edges. Maybe have them take pictures of it so you can see the stone from the side and bottom. I wonder if the dark middle is because the stone is too shallow to too steep.
 
by soberguy » 12 Jul 2014 07:51
Am I the only one who likes it?!


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I like these Mozambique ( and Winza Rubies ) a lot - I bought several untreated smaller stones course I believe that there will be only a short period to get them ( untreated ) for a good price. They have a beautiful sweet red color ( not pink sapphire!!! ) in incandescent light.

This gem is large and very interesting - I agree with TL - AGL certificate!!

Some picture would be nice - maybe the light condition and camera were responsible for the black middle.

GIA article:

http://www.gia.edu/gia-news-research-NR32209B
 
the stone has nice crystal but a dead spot in the middle of the stone due to poor cutting but this is quite normal,un heated vivid red mozambique rubies are close in price to heated flux burmese
 
by treasurehunter » 13 Jul 2014 02:38
the stone has nice crystal but a dead spot in the middle of the stone due to poor cutting but this is quite normal,un heated vivid red mozambique rubies are close in price to heated flux burmese

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Yes - and exactly why I think that untreated mozambique rubies are very interesting at the moment. In a few years they will become much more expensive.

Untreated vivid red ruby versus heated flux ruby - an easy decision.

This stone is difficult course the clarity is good - depends on the price.....! :think:
 
There is a good possibility that the ruby is windowed, when I look at the measurements, but beggars cannot be choosers when it comes to a good quality untreated ruby. As always, if the colour is there (regardless of origin), I go for untreated over treated.
1. I would request additional pictures to see if the darkness goes away (one picture in between tweezers).
2. AGL brief is a must since AGL catches heat treatment better than AIGS in corundum. They also note oiling that most other labs ignore.
 
This is being offered to me by my most trusted vendor and his 30 day no questions asked return policy is amazing.

He did tell me that the middle of the stone does not show much brilliance because of the cut.

I must agree with Chrono that pickers can't be choosers and that at over 2 carats, vivid red and unheated with nice transparency I am definitely going to make an offer on this stone.

I also agree that the material from africa that is vivid fine in color and unheated is a great value buy right now.

Hopefully I will be adding this special untreated ruby to my collection, thanks everyone!
 
Trusted vendors have made unintentional errors; we are all human. Given that this is not an inexpensive purchase, I would still trust but verify and have the sale contingent on a better lab than AIGS, more so because it is a ruby and some treatments are not easy to detect. GIA/AGL has deemed some sapphires that AIGS tested as unheated to be heated.
 
epgs|1405401942|3713477 said:
This is being offered to me by my most trusted vendor and his 30 day no questions asked return policy is amazing.

He did tell me that the middle of the stone does not show much brilliance because of the cut.

I must agree with Chrono that pickers can't be choosers and that at over 2 carats, vivid red and unheated with nice transparency I am definitely going to make an offer on this stone.

I also agree that the material from africa that is vivid fine in color and unheated is a great value buy right now.

Hopefully I will be adding this special untreated ruby to my collection, thanks everyone!
Click to expand...

I would make the sale applicable on the outcome of the AGL report. It may take longer than 30 days to receive the outcome. Double check with AGL about this. Also, what happens if you're beyond your 30 day period and the AGL comes back with a treatment, will the vendor still take it back?
 
Yes - and exactly why I think that untreated mozambique rubies are very interesting at the moment. In a few years they will become much more expensive.

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They already are very expensive, higher than H(a) Burmese ruby. Gemfield stock up huge amount of Mozambique rubies in the last few years, and is preparing to move the market from Thailand to Singapore for a startup. When people hear this rumor--> ruby price is changing on monthly basis.
 
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