online support - boon or bane?

[Cehrabehra]

I am posting this in RT because I think there is something important here that would be worthy of a hearty discussion given several of the events in the past week or two... including my own.

I love being able to come here and vent my frustrations and ask for opinions and get answers to questions and just generally feel very supported here, which is a good thing I think!

But I also wonder if sometimes when we come here it does more harm than good. I think in the end my issue yesterday has resulted in a WAY better relationship with my jeweler so that''s good, but boy it could have all backfired and made it even worse. Regardless, I still ended up with egg on my face. I just had felt so awful and really wanted to turn to someone and you guys are it - but... the people we''re talking about are professionals, often times professionals who rely on their reputation here. Is it fair to them to say everything we think and feel? Is it fair to us to NOT say the things we feel we need support on?

So is it a good thing or a bad thing to come here and vent it all? If your melee are crooked or your stone has a chip - is it a good thing to come here and vent it all or is it better to keep it private UNLESS things are not being taken care of? Is it always about eliciting the power to bring change or control a vendor into fixing something that might not even be their repsonsibility or within the realm of normal.... or is it sometime just about needing to talk and having no one else really to turn to so it all ends up analyzed on the board coming across as criticism for an entire company rather than just venting about a dissapointment that it wasn''t done right the first time?

I''m just wondering where the line is... and I''m sure we all have different opinions... and I''d like to hear them. I don''t have any answers... I just wish sometimes that there were two forums - the vent and complain forum that isn''t actually public, and the forum for real issues and technical concerns. And yeah sure there is "hangout" but it''s every bit as public as RT so I don''t see that as an answer.

I''d like to hear what some of the vendors think about this double edged sword... as well as everyone else. I''m wondering if there is a balance that can be found... or not?

 

[TravelingGal]

OK, I''ll bite.

Personally, I do not think it is up to this forum to provide us a balance or happy medium (with private venting forums and what not). I think the savvy consumer can find that balance him/herself.

I prefer to use the forum to do my research...the search function works really well.

Then if I have additional questions, I will start one thread and continue on with that one. Posters who want to follow my story and help me, will. After it is all over, I post a detailed report for future researchers.

As for venting...a lot of us have been here a long time and there is a communal aspect on PS for sure. I don''t think that venting is a bad thing and some people just need to do it. But just like that over-complaining friend, it does sometimes get on my nerves.

With vendors like Whiteflash, it does seem like the squeaky wheel does get the grease pretty often, which in turn creates more squeaky wheels. I really do think they have pretty good CS, but I swear, somedays they must want to kill everyone who calls themself a pricescoper!

 

[oldminer]

Being ABLE to discuss problems and successes in the open on Pricescope is a VERY powerful tool. It needs to be used with the precision of a surgeon''s scalpel or more damage than good can take place. The threat of public humiliation is often more powerful than the actual story being told. Telling a dmamaging story might get revenge, but it is not likely to make the now angry vendor help you further since you have outed them.

It is a diplomatic mission to express frustration without creating animosity. The consumer who has a problem generally wants the problem to go away, not to create a deeper problem. We do get many people who just don''t have a good command of the language and that is a lifelong handicap which is most difficult to fix. If you are unable to say what your problem is clearly, then you are not likely to get it fixed properly. If you use the wrong word, even by accident, you can fail in the mission to get things fixed. Once you hurt the feelings or business of another person, you have potentially become an enemy, instead of a negotiator.

We have done quite a bit of mediation of disputes over the years with some success. I just recently told a consumer what my opinion of their purchase from a local store was knowing a firestorm would soon arrive once the store owner found out the appraisal results. I listened to the upset retailer defend their position patiently. I still disagree, but I maintained politeness and heard them out. They are so pissed at me, but I did what I felt was correct. It is still a private matter and that''s good for all concerned, but it could degenerate into a public event which would prove painful to all involved. It wouldn''t matter who was right, but exposure in the wrong light is generally damaging.

I doubt any consumer would like to turn back the hands of time and eliminate forums like Pricescope. There is much more positive information and exchange here than the small part which occasionally is negative. I suppose the moderation of the forum is partially responsible for the quality of the exchanges, too. Its a lot like TV. If you don''t like the content, you can change the channel or turn it off. Meanwhile a lot of good things are taking place.

 

[Dee*Jay]

I used PS recently (as you all know, LOL) to vent and get moral support and guidance on my ring situation, but I also got valuable advice from people who know much more than I do about how rings are made and fixed.

My jeweler is not on PS (or at least he's great at "playing dumb" when I try to talk to him about it) so my situation was different than yours, Cehra, but I was still careful about the things I said and the way I said them (although in my more heated moments I'm sure that could come a bit into question

). And did I say anything on this board that I would not have said to my jeweler's face? I don't think so (but I did get a little "eye roll icon" happy on more than one occasion).

For me the experience was valuable, not in any way that made the jeweler respond due to the public discussion, but rather because I was able to gather more/better information that I would have on my own. And the moral support really was INvaluable to me, especially as I started to doubt my own reasonableness and whether I was making too much of small things.

It will be interesting to see if the vendors will weigh in on this and what their postions will be.

 

[lumpkin]

Hmmmm. Well, here's my 2 buck's worth (inflation).

I've seen a few knee jerk reactions that harmed the credibility of the person complaining and slammed the vendor, but I've also seen some instances where posting on PS probably made the difference between the customer getting shafted and getting the problem solved.

My own formula for requesting PS support regarding a vendor would be (in theory, never had to do it personally, at least not yet) to ask myself a few questions:

1) Am I ready and able to post objectively?

2) Are my expectations realistic?

3) Has the vendor given me any reason for distrust?

4) Have I spent enough time trying to resolve the issue with the vendor and given them enough time/opportunity to work it out with me?

5) Have I spent a lot of money without honestly getting a satisfactory product?

6) Do I think posting on PS will help me get a resolution or help inform others, thus helping them to avoid a pitfall?

If yes to all those questions that apply to the situation, I might, depending on the circumstances, post on PS to get support. Then I think it would be extremely helpful.

 

[hikerchick]

If PS did not exist or I hadn''t found it, we still would have bought a BEAUTIFUL diamond of the same size, just not with exactly strict/perfect numbers but a beautiful diamond nonetheless. Finding PS, gave me a mindclean diamond, with perfect/strict numbers for the best light return. It gave us a chance to save about $500 and allowed me to find a new obsession.

I came here to vent about issues because I would NEVER have bought online had it NOT been for PS and this online community so I felt as though since this was the place "responsible" for showing me the online route, this is also the place I come for support with problems, concerns and to generally vent. The whole online thing just widens the "community". IF there is a happy ending, the word of mouth of online diamond buying will only help the online vendors and when there is not a happy ending or too many unpleasant issues, the word of mouth will hurt . . . just on a larger scale in each case.

The biggest difference I see is that emotions and facial expressions and tone of voice does not translate through the keyboard and so it becomes harder to express things clearly unless you try really hard to get the point across. So, online buying is general is both a boon and a curse, for both the customer and the vendor. Just my $0.02 . . .

 

[strmrdr]

The heart and soul of PS has always been consumers for consumers.
Without us the forum is well the other forum we all love to hate.
So any consumer should be free to express themselves either if its good
or bad about a vendor.
The day that changes is the day I''m out of here and likely most
of the regulars will too.
If I wanted to hang out on a vendors forum id register at the other place.
Time will tell if PS goes down that path a lot of forums do because of $$.
The creation of network vendors with a leg up on all other vendors due to use of features not available to all is a step in that direction unfortunately.
It will be an interesting year.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

This is an important topic. Thanks for raising some timely questions.
I believe it''s important to take a deep breath and think for a few extra moments before venting on any open forum. Your comments will be available for the world to see for a very long time.
Tone, inflection of voice, gestures and mannerisms will not be visually displayed and folks from many parts of the globe have different interpretations of language.
I feel that a forum such as pricescope is the best internet forum that our industry has ever witnessed. I thank Leonid and Irina for this.
I also feel that many highly regarded professionals in our industry stay away because of the real possiblity that their words might be misinterpreted at some point. More industry professionals including appraisers would benefit more from participating here than staying away. PS represents the cutting edge and the pulse of a unique and wonderful business. The forums should be embraced by those who want to know what the consumer is thinking on a daily basis.
Every comment, problem, emotion should be treated as if you are speaking face to face directly to the person. Sometimes, the truth hurts. We all make mistakes because we are all human. Be fair, reasonable and logical. That is all we can hope for.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[hikerchick]

Date: 2/13/2007 2:40:15 PM
Author: strmrdr
The heart and soul of PS has always been consumers for consumers.

Without us the forum is well the other forum we all love to hate.

So any consumer should be free to express themselves either if its good

or bad about a vendor.

The day that changes is the day I''m out of here and likely most

of the regulars will too.

If I wanted to hang out on a vendors forum id register at the other place.

Time will tell if PS goes down that path a lot of forums do because of $$.

The creation of network vendors with a leg up on all other vendors due to use of features not available to all is a step in that direction unfortunately.

It will be an interesting year.

First of all, VERY well said !!!

Also, forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by the following sentence?
"The creation of network vendors with a leg up on all other vendors due to use of features not available to all is a step in that direction unfortunately."

 

[pricescope]

Date: 2/13/2007 1:56:10 PM
Author: TravelingGal
OK, I''ll bite.

I prefer to use the forum to do my research...the search function works really well.

Then if I have additional questions, I will start one thread and continue on with that one. Posters who want to follow my story and help me, will. After it is all over, I post a detailed report for future researchers.

You have my Valentine this year TG

My aptop oves you

 

[strmrdr]

Also, forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by the following sentence?
''The creation of network vendors with a leg up on all other vendors due to use of features not available to all is a step in that direction unfortunately.''

How to say this without giving the wrong impression,,,
I''m talking potential not what might or might not be going on.


traditionally and properly in my opinion the vendors that were showcased on the pricescope forums was decided by the consumers.
A vendor could buy all the banner adds they wanted but without consumer support it was useless.
Being in the diamond search was a power the admins held and it was a powerful one but could and was overshadowed by the consumers voices.
For example Wink came on here and with in a few days was accepted and swamped because to cost of entry was low, a great reputation and some satisfied customers and some friends here.

The new web seminar software gives more power to the vendors that the admins like or that has enough $$ to buy in.
The cost of entry is much much higher now and the admins hold that key not the consumers.

It also makes for a pretty powerful hammer to be used to help friends also.

Again I''m talking potential time will tell how it plays out.
A lot depends on how the vendors handle the new toy and how pricescope handles the granting of the privilege of using it.

It also can in some ways overshadow the consumer voice on the forums because on the forums everyone has the same tools to interact where the software gives the vendor a huge tool set that consumers don''t have.

Its a way kewl thing and I love interacting with the vendors but it does have its dark side also.

Again I''m talking about what could happen not what I expect to happen or is happening to my knowledge.

 

[Mara]

Date: 2/13/2007 1:56:10 PM
Author: TravelingGal
OK, I'll bite.

Personally, I do not think it is up to this forum to provide us a balance or happy medium (with private venting forums and what not). I think the savvy consumer can find that balance him/herself.

I prefer to use the forum to do my research...the search function works really well.

Then if I have additional questions, I will start one thread and continue on with that one. Posters who want to follow my story and help me, will. After it is all over, I post a detailed report for future researchers.

As for venting...a lot of us have been here a long time and there is a communal aspect on PS for sure. I don't think that venting is a bad thing and some people just need to do it. But just like that over-complaining friend, it does sometimes get on my nerves.

With vendors like Whiteflash, it does seem like the squeaky wheel does get the grease pretty often, which in turn creates more squeaky wheels. I really do think they have pretty good CS, but I swear, somedays they must want to kill everyone who calls themself a pricescoper!

TG stop living in my head!!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/13/2007 4:52:43 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 2/13/2007 1:56:10 PM
Author: TravelingGal
OK, I''ll bite.

Personally, I do not think it is up to this forum to provide us a balance or happy medium (with private venting forums and what not). I think the savvy consumer can find that balance him/herself.

I prefer to use the forum to do my research...the search function works really well.

Then if I have additional questions, I will start one thread and continue on with that one. Posters who want to follow my story and help me, will. After it is all over, I post a detailed report for future researchers.

As for venting...a lot of us have been here a long time and there is a communal aspect on PS for sure. I don''t think that venting is a bad thing and some people just need to do it. But just like that over-complaining friend, it does sometimes get on my nerves.

With vendors like Whiteflash, it does seem like the squeaky wheel does get the grease pretty often, which in turn creates more squeaky wheels. I really do think they have pretty good CS, but I swear, somedays they must want to kill everyone who calls themself a pricescoper!

TG stop living in my head!!

Can''t. Trapped. All exits are blocked by muffins.

 

[Shay37]

I think it''s a boon to the customer, and a double-edged sword to the vendors. We as customers get a lot of hand holding in the process as soon as one teeny tiny thing isn''t the way we think it ought to be. While it seems the vendors automatically take it in the neck from some posters. I usually don''t participate in those threads cause I ain''t in your living room seeing what you''re looking at. I don''t automatically assume you did anything to the ring yourself, just as I don''t automatically assume the vendor is at fault. Maybe it''s the cowardly thing, but I just think it''s awkward to add to a discussion about damage to a ring I haven''t seen, received by someone I don''t know. If I can see in the pics an obvious problem, I am more inclined to discuss options of how it can be fixed. I don''t automatically assume that either party should be responsible for the fixing of the problem.

Just my silly little .02.

shay

 

[zoebartlett]

I think...basically the same things as what written''s above this post. PS is a great tool to do research and it''s a place one can go to and learn as much info. as possible about diamonds, colored stones, etc. When someone posts frustrations, etc. about a particular vendor, he/she knows that there''s the potential for the word to get out to that vendor. It can lead to a sticky situation sometimes.

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 2/13/2007 2:45:35 PM
Author: Pricescope
My aptop oves you

Ah, that cracked me up.

I seem to recall a few problems that were aided in coming to a resolution due to Pricescope. I think it''s hard no matter what your intentions are...many people start threads and don''t name the vendor so that they don''t get dragged into a he said/she said, but then people start hounding ''who is it? who is it? who is it?'' and then the conjecture goes flying. So sometimes I think people are really trying to see if their complaints are valid but they end up being put in an uncomfortable position.

I still think the free exchange of ideas and opinions is what makes this place so fabulous, and I think it''s helped a lot of people.

 

[Miranda]

Some people are complainers, some people are talk-it-throughers. Everyone can tell the difference. I don''t think it does a lot of harm to vendors. Everyone makes mistakes once in a while. I think the important thing is that if a problem or complaint has been posted the resolution should be as well.

 

[simplysplendid]

I think just as we scream we love the rings from the internet vendors on SMTR, we can vent that we are not pleased with it too. Consumers should post their experiences so that it becomes reference material to other consumers.

Potential consumers who comes to Pricescope should see for themselves how comfortable they are with the results and past issues/resolution and decide on whether to choose a particular vendor or not. To expect 100% positive feedback is not realistic, and we are not shopping on ebay anyway.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/13/2007 2:07:38 PM
Author: oldminer
It is a diplomatic mission to express frustration without creating animosity. The consumer who has a problem generally wants the problem to go away, not to create a deeper problem. We do get many people who just don''t have a good command of the language and that is a lifelong handicap which is most difficult to fix. If you are unable to say what your problem is clearly, then you are not likely to get it fixed properly. If you use the wrong word, even by accident, you can fail in the mission to get things fixed. Once you hurt the feelings or business of another person, you have potentially become an enemy, instead of a negotiator.

David - I think your whole post was excellent - but the above part really resounded with me. Knowing exactly what the problem is and what you want done - and taking the time to figure both of those out BEFORE you talk - can be a very wise choice. Sometimes we don''t know what the problem is and we wish to work it out with other minds.

That last line above is very wise....

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/13/2007 2:13:09 PM
Author: Dee*Jay
I used PS recently (as you all know, LOL) to vent and get moral support and guidance on my ring situation, but I also got valuable advice from people who know much more than I do about how rings are made and fixed.

My jeweler is not on PS (or at least he''s great at ''playing dumb'' when I try to talk to him about it) so my situation was different than yours, Cehra, but I was still careful about the things I said and the way I said them (although in my more heated moments I''m sure that could come a bit into question

). And did I say anything on this board that I would not have said to my jeweler''s face? I don''t think so (but I did get a little ''eye roll icon'' happy on more than one occasion).

For me the experience was valuable, not in any way that made the jeweler respond due to the public discussion, but rather because I was able to gather more/better information that I would have on my own. And the moral support really was INvaluable to me, especially as I started to doubt my own reasonableness and whether I was making too much of small things.

It will be interesting to see if the vendors will weigh in on this and what their postions will be.

I hope they will dare to weigh in... though I''m sure with carefully measured thoughts LOL

Yes, it is different if the jeweler isn''t here I imagine... but the potential for them to show up is always there... and of course a person''s reputation is vulnerable whether they''re there to defend it or not - particularly if they are not... now... that said, I think you were TOTALLY justified in your thread to feel out where you felt responsibility lay and what was reasonable to expect etc. I do think that some of the *spectators* (myself included) can be the ones who go over the line in the harshness dept because they really have nothing to lose by letting their opinions flow like water. now in your case I think I was a little loose in being harsh toward YOU (sorry!!), but in the MM thread I had no hesitation to be harsh toward MM and what if that ended with him refusing to ever work with a PSer again including some of ours who are currently working with him?

Like I said, ALL of these threads - the WF threads, mine, MM, even going back to the pink pear debacle - have really got me thinking today LOL

Yes, the moral support is really invaluable to me as well. That is EXACTLY what I needed yesterday and what I was seeking... of course I worked myself up way too far over it and looking back, maybe I turned to the wrong person/people. Its so easy to second guess yourself. I really thought things were over, little did I know I hadn''t even *started*.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/13/2007 2:18:26 PM
Author: lumpkin
Hmmmm. Well, here''s my 2 buck''s worth (inflation).

worth every penny lumpkin!!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/13/2007 2:39:38 PM
Author: hikerchick
If PS did not exist or I hadn''t found it, we still would have bought a BEAUTIFUL diamond of the same size, just not with exactly strict/perfect numbers but a beautiful diamond nonetheless. Finding PS, gave me a mindclean diamond, with perfect/strict numbers for the best light return. It gave us a chance to save about $500 and allowed me to find a new obsession.
BAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/13/2007 2:44:41 PM
Author: Modified Brilliant
This is an important topic. Thanks for raising some timely questions.
I believe it''s important to take a deep breath and think for a few extra moments before venting on any open forum. Your comments will be available for the world to see for a very long time.
Tone, inflection of voice, gestures and mannerisms will not be visually displayed and folks from many parts of the globe have different interpretations of language.
I feel that a forum such as pricescope is the best internet forum that our industry has ever witnessed. I thank Leonid and Irina for this.
I also feel that many highly regarded professionals in our industry stay away because of the real possiblity that their words might be misinterpreted at some point. More industry professionals including appraisers would benefit more from participating here than staying away. PS represents the cutting edge and the pulse of a unique and wonderful business. The forums should be embraced by those who want to know what the consumer is thinking on a daily basis.
Every comment, problem, emotion should be treated as if you are speaking face to face directly to the person. Sometimes, the truth hurts. We all make mistakes because we are all human. Be fair, reasonable and logical. That is all we can hope for.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

You know what, using just what you said toward the end and my own situation from yesterday - I can say that I totally felt like I was saying what I didn''t have the guts to say face to face... I didn''t want a confrontation so I weenied out and sought out ''the PS family'' for consolation... It was so hard for me to think of ''standing up to'' a jeweler after that MM thread but in all fairness - not all jewelers have the same temperment or personality.

I think it is good to say things in a way that doesn''t ruin someone''s reputation... geez I am so embarrassed at how easy it was for me to just throw in the towel and scamper away in fear of the rejection gypsy faced.

And you''re right - almost any situation can be fixed with polite and frank communication. Not all, but the old saying about flies and honey is cliche for a reason

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/13/2007 6:15:24 PM
Author: FireGoddess

Date: 2/13/2007 2:45:35 PM
Author: Pricescope
My aptop oves you

Ah, that cracked me up.

I seem to recall a few problems that were aided in coming to a resolution due to Pricescope. I think it''s hard no matter what your intentions are...many people start threads and don''t name the vendor so that they don''t get dragged into a he said/she said, but then people start hounding ''who is it? who is it? who is it?'' and then the conjecture goes flying. So sometimes I think people are really trying to see if their complaints are valid but they end up being put in an uncomfortable position.

I still think the free exchange of ideas and opinions is what makes this place so fabulous, and I think it''s helped a lot of people.

it is also frequently very easy to figure things out based on what is said previously...

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/13/2007 4:36:59 PM
Author: strmrdr
How to say this without giving the wrong impression,,,

Wow storm - interesting thoughts... sounds like a whole ''nother thread

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/13/2007 6:33:36 PM
Author: Miranda
Some people are complainers, some people are talk-it-throughers. Everyone can tell the difference. I don''t think it does a lot of harm to vendors. Everyone makes mistakes once in a while. I think the important thing is that if a problem or complaint has been posted the resolution should be as well.

Yes! good point! There have been a lot of times (especially when I first got here) where someone was complaining and I thought OH NO! they must really suck and not be trusted but then everything turned out super great and what I left with was the success of conflict resolution. The willingness to MAKE THINGS RIGHT is far more important to me than the ability to have them right the first time - every time.

 

[kenny]

I had an issue with an expensive diamond I bought.
After passing it by the vendor I aired my concern here.
It was VERY helpful to hear the range of opinions.
I ended up adjusting my perspective and not asking for a price adjustment.

I could not have worked the issue out alone.
PS is a priceless resource.

Just because a poster brings a vendor issue here it doesn''t mean she/he is trying to manipulate or take advantage of the public format to get revenge or money back.

 

[kcoursolle]

I think that personally, it''s best to attempt to resolve an issue with a vendor with them first before posting on here. Then, if you want opinions or to discuss problems that aren''t getting fixed...go for it. However, being *nice* can really go a long way and I think some people (no one in particular) get a little too emotionally vested in their pieces to take a step back and be polite about problems and small details.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Date: 2/13/2007 10:22:35 PM
Author: kcoursolle
I think that personally, it's best to attempt to resolve an issue with a vendor with them first before posting on here. Then, if you want opinions or to discuss problems that aren't getting fixed...go for it. However, being *nice* can really go a long way and I think some people (no one in particular) get a little too emotionally vested in their pieces to take a step back and be polite about problems and small details.

Good advice. Many years ago, I was a District Manager for a very large retail jewelry company. If a consumer had a problem, they were instructed to speak to the store manager first. If the store manager couldn't resolve the problem, then the issue was referred to the District Manager. Next was the Regional Vice President. Everyone in management was a little fearful of passing a problem up to the next level of management. Therefore, many issues were resolved at store level, not at the corporate level. Store managers should be empowered to make decisions with the support of upper management. In the world of internet business, every vendor should have a plan in place for handling consumer problems. A "no red tape" consumer advocate would be ideal. A person who is empowered to handle and correct any problem that may arise.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com