Online cushion cut search

[SmoothOpr8r]

After viewing many of the forums and advice regarding a stone I was looking at, the recurrent theme is that regardless of the numbers and certificate you must see the stone. Can any of the experts please help how to choose an online cushion without being able to see it. Thank you all for your attention and help.

recap of the stone I am currently considering:
shape: cushion modified brilliant
carat: 2.60
color: F
clarity: VVS2
Pol/Sym: very good/very good
Fl: med blue
table 61%
depth 65.9%
dimensions 8.75 x 7.62 x 5.02
girdle: faceted thick to very thick
culet: none
comments: internal and surface graining not shown
Sarin crown angle 37.2 degrees
Sarin pavillion angle 36.7 degrees

 

[boston_jeff]

Date: 4/23/2007 11:52:49 PM
Author:SmoothOpr8r
After viewing many of the forums and advice regarding a stone I was looking at, the recurrent theme is that regardless of the numbers and certificate you must see the stone. Can any of the experts please help how to choose an online cushion without being able to see it.

You can''t. Really.

But you can work with an online vendor that provides you with photos, videos, and have great reputations...

1) Mark Turnowski @ Engagement Rings Direct
2) Good Old Gold

Good luck!

 

[neatfreak]

You really really need to see it. Can you have it sent to you for approval and then send it back to be set before you buy? Or can you have it sent to an independent appraiser near you first? As long as they have a return policy, you could buy it, check it out, and if you don't love it send it back.

As for the stone you showed, I personally prefer tables in the mid 50's, but that's just a preference. Based only on the numbers there is nothing that really worries me. But without seeing it in person (or pictures! pictures are great if you can't see it IRL) there is no way to tell if it will be nice or will be a dog. I wish there was something better to tell you, but I've seen some cushions with great numbers that were dogs and some with not great numbers that were gorgeous.

If it were me buying such a nice stone, I would call one of the PS vendors personally (I highly recommend Mark @ Engagement Rings Direct, he is known as the cushion king around here) and have them choose a few stones for you to inspect. Much safer than trying blindly to buy a cushion online.

I hope that helps!!!

P.S. If you want to save some $ you could safely go down to VS2. VVS2 is generally considered overkill and those few clarity grades can save you some serious cash sometimes.

 

[Cehrabehra]

you have to see it... you have three of the most active cushion lovers here and we''re unanimous LOL A couple weeks ago I would have said oh this is a crushed ice stone so the bigger table should be fine but yanno.... all that got thrown out the window (thanks yellowsparkles) and I''m left with saying, the numbers are not out of the question but what does it look like?

 

[yellowsparkles]

Date: 4/24/2007 1:20:11 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
you have to see it... you have three of the most active cushion lovers here and we''re unanimous LOL A couple weeks ago I would have said oh this is a crushed ice stone so the bigger table should be fine but yanno.... all that got thrown out the window (thanks yellowsparkles) and I''m left with saying, the numbers are not out of the question but what does it look like?

I was trying to stay away from these cushion threads

Cehra, did you see widgets new ring in show me the ring forum? She had her sapphire reset by Leon. He took two radiant stones and shaved the corners to make cushions. It just made me laugh since the last discussion on cushions vs radiants. Maybe we should start calling the crushed ice / glass cushions "radiant cushions".

BTW, the ring is beautiful.

As for cushions - you have to see them with your own eyes (or good pics) - can''t go by numbers alone.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 4/24/2007 1:44:28 AM
Author: yellowsparkles

I was trying to stay away from these cushion threads

Cehra, did you see widgets new ring in show me the ring forum? She had her sapphire reset by Leon. He took two radiant stones and shaved the corners to make cushions. It just made me laugh since the last discussion on cushions vs radiants. Maybe we should start calling the crushed ice / glass cushions ''radiant cushions''.

BTW, the ring is beautiful.

As for cushions - you have to see them with your own eyes (or good pics) - can''t go by numbers alone.

LOL! I know, the ring is beautiful and I laughed about the "cushions" as well.... see? the poor cushion is a catchall for anything and I do mean ANYTHING with that type of corners LOL

 

[yellowsparkles]

Cehra, you are just going to have to accept that Cushion is a generic name for anything shaped like a cushion

.
I think I learned the most about cushions in the last week than I have since I became a PSer.

One day I will have my ulitmate chunky, high crown cushion!

 

[boston_jeff]

Date: 4/24/2007 3:03:00 PM
Author: yellowsparkles
Cehra, you are just going to have to accept that Cushion is a generic name for anything shaped like a cushion

.

I know you were joking, but I laughed out loud at the idea that Sara would "accept" anything of the sort.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 4/24/2007 3:53:59 PM
Author: boston_jeff

Date: 4/24/2007 3:03:00 PM
Author: yellowsparkles
Cehra, you are just going to have to accept that Cushion is a generic name for anything shaped like a cushion

.

I know you were joking, but I laughed out loud at the idea that Sara would ''accept'' anything of the sort.

just remember you guys, this is but one "facet" of who I am

 

[fletchccc]

I was looking at Cushions today and saw two very different diamonds.
a 2 ct and a 3ct.
The 2 ct was very sparkly/glittery throughout the entire diamond and the 3ct was the same on the top and bottom but had a "dead" bowtie''esque area throughout the middle from one side to the other.
Is this normal in bigger stones? Is it just a poorer cut diamond? The dealer tried to tell me it was all personal preference, but I don''t believe him.
Thoughts?

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 5/7/2007 5:04:45 PM
Author: fletchccc
I was looking at Cushions today and saw two very different diamonds.

a 2 ct and a 3ct.

The 2 ct was very sparkly/glittery throughout the entire diamond and the 3ct was the same on the top and bottom but had a 'dead' bowtie'esque area throughout the middle from one side to the other.

Is this normal in bigger stones? Is it just a poorer cut diamond? The dealer tried to tell me it was all personal preference, but I don't believe him.

Thoughts?

No, it is not normal in a bigger stone. Well, I guess if by "normal" he means that it happens often in cushions, then yes I guess it's "normal", but not something you need to accept! Plenty of excellently cut cushions without bowties abound. Keep looking. You can certainly find many cushions without bowties, and unless you like the look (nod to you Cehra!) then don't listen to him.

 

[boston_jeff]

Date: 5/7/2007 5:04:45 PM
Author: fletchccc
I was looking at Cushions today and saw two very different diamonds.

a 2 ct and a 3ct.

The 2 ct was very sparkly/glittery throughout the entire diamond and the 3ct was the same on the top and bottom but had a 'dead' bowtie'esque area throughout the middle from one side to the other.

Is this normal in bigger stones? Is it just a poorer cut diamond? The dealer tried to tell me it was all personal preference, but I don't believe him.

Thoughts?

Hi fletch... not enough information there to really tell you much. I would say it is very possible that the 2 ct was better cut than the 3 ct, but it also possible you were not comparing stones with the same facet arrangement and there might be some personal preference at play here.

And, before anyone *else* chimes in, bowtie does not necessarily = dead, although the stone you saw may have had a "dead bowtie" because of the angles.

 

[fletchccc]

AWESOME info.
Thanks so much.
FYI, this is an estate diamond that is priced at 29k for a 3 ct. F, VS1.
8.2x9.1x5.1
62% table,
62% depth
Small faceted culet
Very good Polish and very good symetry.
Stong Blue Fluorescence

Walk on it because of the bowtie? Is that a good deal for that diamond?

I thought that bowtie looked wierd in the middle when the top and bottom were so sparkly...

 

[neatfreak]

The bowtie is probably a negative attribute then, so yes, pass. Some bowties are not "dead" bowties, but this sounds like it is. Also has a bigish table, which could be good or bad depending on your preferences!

 

[fletchccc]

boston_jeff-
Thanks for the post.
You are right, it wasn''t "dead", but it didn''t have the (I don''t know how else to put it other than) glittery look that the top and bottom did...it looked way less "Brilliant" in the middle, left and right than on the top and bottom.

 

[boston_jeff]

Date: 5/7/2007 5:09:49 PM
Author: neatfreak



No, it is not normal in a bigger stone. Well, I guess if by ''normal'' he means that it happens often in cushions, then yes I guess it''s ''normal'', but not something you need to accept! Plenty of excellently cut cushions without bowties abound. Keep looking. You can certainly find many cushions without bowties, and unless you like the look (nod to you Cehra!) then don''t listen to him.

Not to threadjack here, but I remain convinced that what Sara''s stone has that she loves is not actually the "bowtie effect" that people normally refer to as a negative characteristic in elongated stones. That effect makes the stone look dark and dead in the center in a bowtie shape radiating from the culet. And I don''t think that the effected area throws off huge rainbows or flashes... it is just dull. If "bowtie effect" did what Sara''s stone does, it would not be considered a negative.

What Sara always says when she says she loves the bowtie in her stone is actually the bowtie-shaped FACETS on her stone, which are particularly big because her stone is large and elongated. These facets can appear dark, particularly with head obstruction, but also are the most unpredictable and lively facets are her stone when the stone is in motion. I really think this is different.

Maybe certain stones will exhibit a "bowtie" in certain lighting, but not all bowties are created equal, in that in some stones the bowtie can be "brought to life."

 

[boston_jeff]

Date: 5/7/2007 5:17:13 PM
Author: fletchccc
boston_jeff-

Thanks for the post.

You are right, it wasn''t ''dead'', but it didn''t have the (I don''t know how else to put it other than) glittery look that the top and bottom did...it looked way less ''Brilliant'' in the middle, left and right than on the top and bottom.

If you''ve seen it, and you don''t like it.... pass, don''t even think twice, because it''s too much money to be dissatisfied. That bowtie will mock you for years.

If I had to guess I would say that the stone is a little shallow and the table is a little big, which may mean the crown height is lower than you would like.

You don''t happen to have any pictures of either stone, do you?

 

[fletchccc]

Alright, sorry to hound on this, but after reading this link
http://www.diamondsourceva.com/Education/Cut/diamonds-bow-tie.asp
It isn''t a bowtie effect that I am seeing, rather it looks like the top and bottom are more radiant, or brilliant cut and throught the center, it looks more like an emerald cut, or less facets=less glittery.
It''s not dark, or dead.
Thoughts on that? or do the oppinions still stand?

 

[neatfreak]

Well my cushion has that (see my avatar) and I lovingly call them my "batman wings" but it doesn''t bother me. Bowties on the other hand bother me very very much. Totally different ballgame for me.

Quite honestly, what WE say doesn''t matter because it''s YOUR stone. If YOU initially didn''t care for it because of the dark spots, then you shouldn''t buy it. Wait for another stone that doesn''t have that faceting arrangement. This is too big of a purchase for us to speculate about whether you should buy a stone or not simply because of your description of the appearance.

Wait for a stone you love.