On the hunt for a well-cut Padparadscha around 2 cts

[toomuchB]

@toomuchB I think I would say that cut is more important to me than color because I can’t look past a big window. For color, I really just don’t want it to be too pink, but it doesn’t necessarily need to be a deeper color. I do like the pastels shades as well. I reached out to Dinuka of ceylon blue gems, and they have this option available. It has a window, but not the worst that I have seen. I do like the color and I might inquire if it’s possible to have a recut.

https://imgur.com/a/dxwAoZ4

Pretty!
Recuts can affect color fyi. It might not be worth it if any negative consequences of a recut fall on you.

Also, just a warning, while plenty of overseas vendors are solid, you should make sure you are comfortable with their return policy and the payment options they accept.

 

[Autumn in New England]

The color looks quite pretty in the video! In the photo, it looks like there is iron staining, which would be undesirable. However, the rest of the color still looks like an orangey-pink, so perhaps it wouldn't matter. About the cut... it is super deep, so I bet they could recut the pavilion without losing any face-up size.

 

[Avondale]

The cutter was very thorough not to waste any material, that's for sure...

 

[shewhowanders]

Here is another option from Ceylon Blue Sapphires. It’s only 1.04 ct, so smaller than what I was looking for and I like the color. It looks like there is some color zoning, but I don’t really mind it. At the end there are some comparison videos and photos that also show the 2.62ct oval and the photos show a 5ct that’s way above my budget haha. The 1.04 ct is $4250 and the 2.62ct is 15k. I don’t think I like the 2.62ct enough at that price especially with the cut and the zoning. Interested to hear your thoughts on the 1.04ct!

https://imgur.com/a/qStvNWt

 

[Autumn in New England]

I really like this stone! Although the shade is very similar to the 2.62ct, it has much more even distribution of color. The cut is likewise vastly superior. I honestly love it. Will you be satisfied with the size/weight? That seems like the only concern. Is there certification from a reputable lab or will you have the ability to have it properly tested before committing (that's important to me... not sure if it is to you)? Also, that 5ct stone has way too much yellow to be a true pad (IMO), so don't feel bad about it exceeding the budget!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Pretty color! Much smaller than you wanted though…

 

[shewhowanders]

@Autumn in New England it has a certificate from GGTL which I think is local from Sri Lanka. I would prefer GRS, GIA, or AGL but it’s not a deal breaker. I am hesitant because of the small size. I’m planning to set with a chunky diamond halo, so the ring would still have good presence.

 

[toomuchB]

I don't know.
It looks like a great stone.
If I were you I'd take a step back. Reassess. Are you sure you are ok with the size?
Its a big difference in what you were looking for originally.
It is not a bargain price that would perhaps justify the purchase. I mean this 1.3ct, which you said is too orange for you (its just an example for price), is just 250$ more, and this seller has 20-25% off sales frequently. So it would come out to 3500-ish. And you get the GIA report, easy returns, all that.

Killer No Heat 1.32 Carat GIA Padparadscha Sapphire, Cushion Cut, 5.68 x 5.65 x 4.52 mm

Seller of high quality loose gemstones, diamonds, jewelry, findings and mountings

www.africagems.com

I just wouldn't want you to regret a big purchase especially if it might be hard to return to Sri Lanka if an issue arises. I think its Pakistan that has issues or limitations with gem returns, but maybe it was Sri Lanka? I don't remember. Perhaps someone can clarify.

But then again, warning: I can be too cautious and have regretfully missed out on some great stones as a result. But have, on the reverse, avoided costly mistakes.

Sorry to be a downer!

edit- here is your original comment on the africagems stone.

@toomuchB The 1.32 has really nice intense color too, just a little smaller than I’m looking for and perhaps a bit too orange.

Well if the main gripe was the size, this one is a little bigger weight and face up wise - 5.68 x 5.65.
Whether it is too orange - it might be, I would ask for a realistic video or photo.
With a 20% off coupon which is frequent for this site you might spend quite a bit less than the stone you are considering.
Nothing against the stone you are considering, its beautiful, this is just what my thought process would be.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I agree with @toomuchB about the size difference. Give it some thought. Although a stone over 1ct could be considered large depending on the collector, it is half the weight for which you were initially searching. That being said, it looks to be a fabulous stone. I have zero complaints (hallelujah)! I love the color, shape, cut, clarity, etc.

About the Africa Gems stone... it's a great suggestion, so I don't want to seem like I'm being contrary. But for me personally, I'd try to avoid anything that could pull rusty, coppery, or burnt in person, because that shade has an inherent brown modifier (which is a big no-no in the pad world). Often, AGL won't even certify Madagascan or Tanzanian material as padparadscha because of its tendency to pull brown and be oversaturated. I think this may be one of those occasions. Just my take! If you love the color and the price is right, then it really doesn't matter.

 

[toomuchB]

I agree with @toomuchB about the size difference. Give it some thought. Although a stone over 1ct could be considered large depending on the collector, it is half the weight for which you were initially searching. That being said, it looks to be a fabulous stone. I have zero complaints (hallelujah)! I love the color, shape, cut, clarity, etc.

About the Africa Gems stone... it's a great suggestion, so I don't want to seem like I'm being contrary. But for me personally, I'd try to avoid anything that could pull rusty or coppery in person, because that shade has an inherent brown modifier (which is a big no-no in the pad world). Often, AGL won't even certify Madagascan or Tanzanian material as padparadscha because of its tendency to pull brown and be oversaturated. I think this may be one of those occasions. Just my take! If you love the color and the price is right, then it really doesn't matter.

No worries, you have more experience with picking them out than me for sure, so your input is appreciated of course. This is just a technical discussion from my pov.

I agree the origin thing is a factor, in price too, and it might be brownish or shift brownish. Your instinct is probably right.

I remember this stone from Pala Gems, 2017. When it was published I was blown away by this color for padparadscha.
Then a couple years ago I saw it at a Bonhams auction - instantly recognized it - and the AGL report had no padparadscha designation.

Padparadscha 2017 05 — Pala international

www.palagems.com

Then I realized i know nothing!

But looking at this stone now, a few years since I saw it since last time, I can say I'm not a huge fan of the color. So some growth there!

My point still stands that OP should take a bit more time to consider size at least.

 

[Avondale]

Is it the holy grail colour? And how much can you trust the seller's representation to be accurate?

If it is the holy grail colour, size steps back to being a secondary consideration.

If it isn't the holy grail colour, don't compromise on size and keep searching for the perfect one.

 

[toomuchB]

OP - if it helps, I use this tool to visualize and compare size sometimes.
Here I inputted the mm sizes of the 1.04 vs the 2.6

1ct Morganite (Cushion, Light Red, 5.63 x 5.04 mm) vs. 1ct Morganite (Oval, Light Red, 8.5 x 5.99 mm)

Compare 1ct Morganite (cushion shape, light red color, 5.63x5.04 mm) and 1ct Morganite (oval shape, light red color, 8.5x5.99 mm) on actual face-up size (25.54 mm² vs. 41.75 mm²)

www.gemsize.org

 

[Autumn in New England]

No worries, you have more experience with picking them out than me for sure, so your input is appreciated of course. This is just a technical discussion from my pov.

I agree the origin thing is a factor, in price too, and it might be brownish or shift brownish. Your instinct is probably right.

I remember this stone from Pala Gems, 2017. When it was published I was blown away by this color for padparadscha.
Then a couple years ago I saw it at a Bonhams auction - instantly recognized it - and the AGL report had no padparadscha designation.

Padparadscha 2017 05 — Pala international

www.palagems.com

Then I realized i know nothing!

But looking at this stone now, a few years since I saw it since last time, I can say I'm not a huge fan of the color. So some growth there!

My point still stands that OP should take a bit more time to consider size at least.

What?! You know plenty! And, after all, it's really all subjective. There are a couple of stones where I sort of veer from trade ideals. We always say "buy what you like" here, and it's true. As long as the price is right, that's the way to go in terms of collecting.

With regard to AGL, Monruedee Chaipaksa is a senior gemologist, and she applies an extremely narrow definition when it comes to padparadscha. Honestly, I think they are the most strict of any lab in that regard. If a stone has any mixture of pink and orange, regardless of tone, saturation, or modifiers, GIA seems to give it the designation. They're more seller friendly in that respect. Anyway, I spoke with Monrundee on the phone about how AGL certifies padparadscha (since they're not a member of the LMHC). She comes from an Asian background, where they're definitely more inclined towards the Sri Lankan material. She said if a stone is too pink, too orange, too saturated, or has even a suggestion of brown, it's precluded. They seem to be more forgiving if a stone is lighter than ideal. I dislike the paler material immensely, because it dies in daylight.

 

[toomuchB]

What?! You know plenty! And, after all, it's really all subjective. There are a couple of stones where I sort of veer from trade ideals. We always say "buy what you like" here, and it's true. As long as the price is right, that's the way to go in terms of collecting.

With regard to AGL, Monruedee Chaipaksa is a senior gemologist, and she applies an extremely narrow definition when it comes to padparadscha. Honestly, I think they are the most strict of any lab in that regard. If a stone has any mixture of pink and orange, regardless of tone, saturation, or modifiers, GIA seems to give it the designation. They're more seller friendly in that respect. Anyway, I spoke with Monrundee on the phone about how AGL certifies padparadscha (since they're not a member of the LMHC). She comes from an Asian background, where they're definitely more inclined towards the Sri Lankan material. She said if a stone is too pink, too orange, too saturated, or has even a suggestion of brown, it's precluded. They seem to be more forgiving if a stone is lighter than ideal. I dislike the paler material immensely, because it dies in daylight.

That is so interesting about AGL. Thanks for sharing. It would actually make me more inclined to go with them for this material, I appreciate the strictness.

 

[Autumn in New England]

That is so interesting about AGL. Thanks for sharing. It would actually make me more inclined to go with them for this material, I appreciate the strictness.

It both intimidates and impresses me. lol In fact, when I bought my padparadscha, the aim was to find a color I loved, of course, but also one that no lab could debate. It took a long time to get it just right (IMO). Not that anyone asked, lol, but here's what I think makes a perfect pad:

1. Hue: Pinkish-orange... a 50/50 split is probably ideal, but I like the orange to be slightly more dominant. Nothing I dislike more than a pad that just looks like a pale pink sapphire. There's a purity, crispness, or liveliness that must also accompany the hue. If the word "drab" ever comes to mind, you're looking at the wrong stone. No yellow, violet, or brown modifiers.

2. Tone: Medium-light (GIA 4)... to me, this is the sweet spot.

3. Saturation: Strong (GIA 5)... it's difficult finding intense saturation with a medium-light tone. But this will keep it from flattening under any lighting, especially daylight.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I should have also mentioned even distribution of color... subtle zoning is ok, but avoid staining. Lastly, color stability is important. Have I covered everything? lol

 

[shewhowanders]

I don't know.
It looks like a great stone.
If I were you I'd take a step back. Reassess. Are you sure you are ok with the size?
Its a big difference in what you were looking for originally.
It is not a bargain price that would perhaps justify the purchase. I mean this 1.3ct, which you said is too orange for you (its just an example for price), is just 250$ more, and this seller has 20-25% off sales frequently. So it would come out to 3500-ish. And you get the GIA report, easy returns, all that.

Killer No Heat 1.32 Carat GIA Padparadscha Sapphire, Cushion Cut, 5.68 x 5.65 x 4.52 mm

Seller of high quality loose gemstones, diamonds, jewelry, findings and mountings

www.africagems.com

I just wouldn't want you to regret a big purchase especially if it might be hard to return to Sri Lanka if an issue arises. I think its Pakistan that has issues or limitations with gem returns, but maybe it was Sri Lanka? I don't remember. Perhaps someone can clarify.

But then again, warning: I can be too cautious and have regretfully missed out on some great stones as a result. But have, on the reverse, avoided costly mistakes.

Sorry to be a downer!

edit- here is your original comment on the africagems stone.


Well if the main gripe was the size, this one is a little bigger weight and face up wise - 5.68 x 5.65.
Whether it is too orange - it might be, I would ask for a realistic video or photo.
With a 20% off coupon which is frequent for this site you might spend quite a bit less than the stone you are considering.
Nothing against the stone you are considering, its beautiful, this is just what my thought process would be.

I requested some videos of the Africa Gems stone, but they were traveling to JCK so it wasn’t available. I’ll probably follow up again.

 

[shewhowanders]

OP - if it helps, I use this tool to visualize and compare size sometimes.
Here I inputted the mm sizes of the 1.04 vs the 2.6

1ct Morganite (Cushion, Light Red, 5.63 x 5.04 mm) vs. 1ct Morganite (Oval, Light Red, 8.5 x 5.99 mm)

Compare 1ct Morganite (cushion shape, light red color, 5.63x5.04 mm) and 1ct Morganite (oval shape, light red color, 8.5x5.99 mm) on actual face-up size (25.54 mm² vs. 41.75 mm²)

www.gemsize.org

This is awesome, thanks for sharing!

 

[shewhowanders]

@Autumn in New England that’s an excellent synopsis!! I’ve asked Glenn for some additional videos. After I receive those I’ll either move forward with his stone or start a gem hunt with Inken. I think that’s probably my best bet at this point because I love what she has found in the past.

 

[Autumn in New England]

@Autumn in New England that’s an excellent synopsis!! I’ve asked Glenn for some additional videos. After I receive those I’ll either move forward with his stone or start a gem hunt with Inken. I think that’s probably my best bet at this point because I love what she has found in the past.

She has the best eye around, so no doubt she'll find you something exquisite. And I'll go out on a limb here in saying she seems to follow the same parameters I do in evaluating them.

 

[Begonia]

It both intimidates and impresses me. lol In fact, when I bought my padparadscha, the aim was to find a color I loved, of course, but also one that no lab could debate. It took a long time to get it just right (IMO). Not that anyone asked, lol, but here's what I think makes a perfect pad:

1. Hue: Pinkish-orange... a 50/50 split is probably ideal, but I like the orange to be slightly more dominant. Nothing I dislike more than a pad that just looks like a pale pink sapphire. There's a purity, crispness, or liveliness that must also accompany the hue. If the word "drab" ever comes to mind, you're looking at the wrong stone. No yellow, violet, or brown modifiers.

2. Tone: Medium-light (GIA 4)... to me, this is the sweet spot.

3. Saturation: Strong (GIA 5)... it's difficult finding intense saturation with a medium-light tone. But this will keep it from flattening under any lighting, especially daylight.

Can you show me a Pic of such a stone?

 

[Autumn in New England]

Can you show me a Pic of such a stone?

Certainly I'm biased, but I bought my pad because I feel like it falls within those specifications. To avoid any impropriety, I'll post a different example. lol

This is the perfect pad color, IMO, and falls within the narrow parameters above. It is unheated, Ceylon, 4.55ct, and surrounded by pink diamonds. The ring was created by none other than Miss Inken herself. Distinctly pinkish-orange, no other modifier, even color (with subtle zoning), medium-light tone, and strong saturation. Neither pale nor overly saturated. Look at that purity of color! I'd say this is the (rather specific) color for which the stone was originally named and prized. You'll see a lot of padparadschas around (and indeed, many of them qualify), but this particular shade is rare, rare, rare.

 

[Autumn in New England]

*I should specify that the ring above is NOT mine (unfortunately) and has sold (bummer).

 

[shewhowanders]

Glenn sent a few videos of the sapphire on the hand. The first video was taken indoors with window light only. I think it looks really nice in that video. The second video was taken indoors outdoor sunlight and Glenn said the tone is washed out in the video. It looks very light in that video, but it seems like it’s not an accurate depiction. What do you guys think?

https://imgur.com/a/6Pjg2yj

 

[Begonia]

Certainly I'm biased, but I bought my pad because I feel like it falls within those specifications. To avoid any impropriety, I'll post a different example. lol

This is the perfect pad color, IMO, and falls within the narrow parameters above. It is unheated, Ceylon, 4.55ct, and surrounded by pink diamonds. The ring was created by none other than Miss Inken herself. Distinctly pinkish-orange, no other modifier, even color (with subtle zoning), medium-light tone, and strong saturation. Neither pale nor overly saturated. Look at that purity of color! I'd say this is the (rather specific) color for which the stone was originally named and prized. You'll see a lot of padparadschas around (and indeed, many of them qualify), but this particular shade is rare, rare, rare.

Just for sh*ts and giggles, what would such a ring have gone for?

 

[toomuchB]

Glenn sent a few videos of the sapphire on the hand. The first video was taken indoors with window light only. I think it looks really nice in that video. The second video was taken indoors outdoor sunlight and Glenn said the tone is washed out in the video. It looks very light in that video, but it seems like it’s not an accurate depiction. What do you guys think?

https://imgur.com/a/6Pjg2yj

I appreciate the difficulty with taking accurate photos of videos of this stone but it is still a bit baffling to send additional footage that is implied to be inaccurate.
Still I'm sure some here will have the eye and experience to tell more about it based on the videos.
The cut is excellent and it will be almost impossible to find a similar stone in that regard.

 

[Rfisher]

budget of under 10k that really speaks to me. Ideally, I’m looking for a well-cut non-windowed oval with medium tone and more orange than pink.

Fun!

This is a tough one, but fun one, and just requires some patience

Yes!

. My "dream" pad was my 4th one; I bought and sold 3 before it... too pale... too pink... too dark... too brown. It's like whack-a-mole sometimes!

Question for you, Autumn, and it might help you too, OP.
Through the process of the 4 stones - how much was it you learning what color of pad you ultimately wanted to have after (I assume) thinking you had it figured out by pictures online?- and did your wants evolve?
And how different was the color you saw throughout your different environmental lightings compared to the vendors photos on those stones?

not a ding on the vendors at all - but I’m really convinced this color range is the most difficult to photo compared to what you see with eye. Without post photo processing. And taking 50 for one that looks representative and the time involved in that. Also not to go on a speal if a vendor is using a camera or phone.
Brown where it’s not there.
Purple where it’s not there
Negating orange /amping pink.

failing in love with a photo posted online and trying to replicate that to your own IRL experience - can be a sad thing or happy thing.
I can’t offer much to you as I settled for a super shifty peach sapphire in my own Pad journey. Just that my opinion is cost of shipping (or travelling to see) multiple stones back and forth is an investment or a tuition - not a wasted loss. Because minute change is a world of change in Pad color. Maybe you’ll find you will prefer less clear crystal as a compromise to compensate for less saturation of color? Or something like that, as an example.

Best wishes on your journey OP!
I’ll enjoy following along.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Glenn sent a few videos of the sapphire on the hand. The first video was taken indoors with window light only. I think it looks really nice in that video. The second video was taken indoors outdoor sunlight and Glenn said the tone is washed out in the video. It looks very light in that video, but it seems like it’s not an accurate depiction. What do you guys think?

https://imgur.com/a/6Pjg2yj

Looks fabulous in the first vid... looks monstrous in the second. IMO, gems live or die by daylight. If he says the second vid is not accurate (I wouldn't have even sent it if that was the case), I think you'll simply need to see it in person under different lightings to be sure. What is the return policy like?

 

[Autumn in New England]

I appreciate the difficulty with taking accurate photos of videos of this stone but it is still a bit baffling to send additional footage that is implied to be inaccurate.
Still I'm sure some here will have the eye and experience to tell more about it based on the videos.
The cut is excellent and it will be almost impossible to find a similar stone in that regard.

This ^!

 

[shewhowanders]

There is a two day inspection period with the buyer paying for shipping and insurance. I’m considering doing that, but I’m struggling to decide.