That's crazy! Find out where the source of the information was from??!!
I was also wondering what happened to traded in Tiffany diamonds, I asked at Tiffany as I was worried that some of their stones could be traded in diamonds, and they assured me they were all brand new stones in the store. So I asked what happened to the traded in diamonds, and they said they would get their specialist to answer me and they still haven't answered.
I was also wondering what happened to traded in Tiffany diamonds, I asked at Tiffany as I was worried that some of their stones could be traded in diamonds, and they assured me they were all brand new stones in the store. So I asked what happened to the traded in diamonds, and they said they would get their specialist to answer me and they still haven't answered.
That's awful.
I'm no WW2 expert, and definitely know there was a lot of stealing that went on... (again such an awful topic) but I would imagine by the time Holocaust victims were taken to concentration camps, items such as diamonds would have been been stripped off them long beforehand. The Holocaust happened towards the end of the war. So even though there may be a relationship between Holocaust victims and OECs it's not necessarily an absolute, as we don't know what happened to every person who was stripped of all their valuables (which would have happened earlier in the war).
Sorry, I don't know what more to add. Really sad topic. I can understand why that would make you uncomfortable.
I'm no WW2 expert, and definitely know there was a lot of stealing that went on... (again such an awful topic) but I would imagine by the time Holocaust victims were taken to concentration camps, items such as diamonds would have been been stripped off them long beforehand. The Holocaust happened towards the end of the war. So even though there may be a relationship between Holocaust victims and OECs it's not necessarily an absolute, as we don't know what happened to every person who was stripped of all their valuables (which would have happened earlier in the war).
Sorry, I don't know what more to add. Really sad topic. I can understand why that would make you uncomfortable.
ForteKitty
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Since quite a few older diamonds have been recut into MRBs (and probably other shapes, occasionally), I guess there's really no way of knowing that the diamond wasn't taken from a holocaust victim. Unless you buy Canadian. It's not as if the profit is going to the Nazis, so I don't think it really matters. It is not as if, by purchasing that diamond, you are in some way funding or endorsing the holocaust, unlike with so-called "blood diamonds."
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I imagine some old diamonds do have a checkered past - I have heard, for example, of families who used their jewels to buy safe out of a life-threatening situation. My grandmother lived in a country that was occupied by a brutal invading army - she was able to pass down some gemstones and jewelry because she found a way to hide them. She may have "given up" some jewelry to keep them from searching and finding the rest - I really don't know. I'm sure that many, many more pieces of jewelry stayed with their rightful owners in relative safety, even in war-torn countries, and that other old diamonds made their way to America and "the new world" before WWI broke out.
Who knows, perhaps the OEC that captures your eye helped a family flee the holocaust!
Who knows, perhaps the OEC that captures your eye helped a family flee the holocaust!
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Nobody throws away diamonds after divorce, death, or even this horrid event in history.
I doubt all the diamonds stolen by the Nazis were destroyed.
Maybe a tiny percent got returned to descendants, but so often there were no descendants.
The diamonds must have gone back into circulation, with sellers and buyers just not asking questions since so much money was at stake.
I'm pretty sure there is no way to be certain that your diamond was not stolen from a holocaust victim and later recut.
Also tons of dental gold and gold from rings of victims, and stolen from occupied countries was sold by Nazis to help pay for the war effort.
Gold is gold and after melting down and purifying the origin cannot be proven.
It gets melted down, sold, and travels the world.
It is very likely some of the gold in some of our rings was stolen from the victims of the Nazis.
Here's a link about Nazi gold: http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1999/spring/nazi-gold-merkers-mine-treasure.html
It's all so ugly and depressing, but what can be done?
I doubt all the diamonds stolen by the Nazis were destroyed.
Maybe a tiny percent got returned to descendants, but so often there were no descendants.
The diamonds must have gone back into circulation, with sellers and buyers just not asking questions since so much money was at stake.
I'm pretty sure there is no way to be certain that your diamond was not stolen from a holocaust victim and later recut.
Also tons of dental gold and gold from rings of victims, and stolen from occupied countries was sold by Nazis to help pay for the war effort.
Gold is gold and after melting down and purifying the origin cannot be proven.
It gets melted down, sold, and travels the world.
It is very likely some of the gold in some of our rings was stolen from the victims of the Nazis.
Here's a link about Nazi gold: http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1999/spring/nazi-gold-merkers-mine-treasure.html
It's all so ugly and depressing, but what can be done?
mauricecrane
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I wanted to say that the comment about the origins of the OED probably came from a random troll 
But after reading a few stories online, I agree with everyone that diamonds from this tragic event are probably back in the circulation as newly cut gems. You can't be certain about whether your OED was taken by Nazis but I don't see the need to worry - after all, the nazis are long gone. It's not like you're justifying the horrors that they did by (unknowingly) owning a holocaust diamond. I mean, it's not as terrible as buying blood diamonds 
But after reading a few stories online, I agree with everyone that diamonds from this tragic event are probably back in the circulation as newly cut gems. You can't be certain about whether your OED was taken by Nazis but I don't see the need to worry - after all, the nazis are long gone. It's not like you're justifying the horrors that they did by (unknowingly) owning a holocaust diamond. I mean, it's not as terrible as buying blood diamonds 
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You can't be certain of the history of any piece. An old lady in a nursing home could have her rings stolen off her finger, passed a long to a deal as the thief's own, recut, and sold in a store as "new" (whatever that means). We are probably all wearing or have owned something which has a sordid history, including brand new made in a developing country clothing. If you want to be absolutely certain you aren't wearing a diamond with a terrible history, don't wear one at all.
vinjewels
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I don't want this to sound wrong but here goes...
I agree, this is a sobering thought, but like Kenny said, how can you be sure the gold we wear is not clean of karma? Or even diamonds for that matter? I feel like you can do as much homework as possible to make sure it comes from a bonafide source, but you can drive yourself nuts worrying about things that are in the past and out of our ability to research (however, if the history was definitely known to be from this, I would pass). Who would make that connection? That is beyond me.
Also, its not like you are knowingly profiting or supplying the money that keeps this practice alive. Blood diamonds are one thing...the practice is still out there in some places and I do think buying from a shady source (or one that doesn't ensure they are not BD) does potentially fund the continuation of the practice.
Even though it was an absolute embarrassing example of the humans that lead/participated in it, the holocaust (of Jews) is over. The middle man is probably dead by now and it has probably changed hands several times. Your buying it doesn't in any way "support" it, make rich, or the absolute nastiness that surrounds it. If the history was not known, I would not make myself paranoid over something that may or may not be. If it is something that you can get around worrying about, I would skip old cuts altogether. And there is nothing wrong with that. You have to love what you wear.
I agree, this is a sobering thought, but like Kenny said, how can you be sure the gold we wear is not clean of karma? Or even diamonds for that matter? I feel like you can do as much homework as possible to make sure it comes from a bonafide source, but you can drive yourself nuts worrying about things that are in the past and out of our ability to research (however, if the history was definitely known to be from this, I would pass). Who would make that connection? That is beyond me.
Also, its not like you are knowingly profiting or supplying the money that keeps this practice alive. Blood diamonds are one thing...the practice is still out there in some places and I do think buying from a shady source (or one that doesn't ensure they are not BD) does potentially fund the continuation of the practice.
Even though it was an absolute embarrassing example of the humans that lead/participated in it, the holocaust (of Jews) is over. The middle man is probably dead by now and it has probably changed hands several times. Your buying it doesn't in any way "support" it, make rich, or the absolute nastiness that surrounds it. If the history was not known, I would not make myself paranoid over something that may or may not be. If it is something that you can get around worrying about, I would skip old cuts altogether. And there is nothing wrong with that. You have to love what you wear.
vinjewels|1342531977|3235392 said:
This exactly. Vinjewels said this so well so I won't repeat the message. A lot of diamonds, gold, gemstones, silver, etc have something not so pretty in their past. Most people just don't realize it. What you do today will not affect the past but it may affect the future.
Oh and if this really worries you and you don't want a newly cut diamond, then there are ways to be nearly certain that the diamond was not from a holocaust victim (although who knows what else is in it's past).
There must be other countries that have the type of system Sweden has had.
Over here all gold objects (before 1988 that meant at least 18ct gold) had to have stamps not only indicating gold purity, but a control stamp from the government, a name stamp and a key that can be translated to see what year the object was made. These stamps are all registered so you can go back and find who owned the name stamp the year your object was made. Depending on the object it is often possible to see if the stones are original to the piece and that in combination with the information from the stamps can give you a good assurance that the stone you are considering is was not part of a particular disaster.
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I think that is a major stretch of the imagination. There are billions of diamonds floating around and we don't know the origins of any of them. I hope I am buying diamonds that are not blood diamonds, but other than that, I don't give the history of the diamond a second thought. They aren't alive and don't have any inherent "bad luck" or "karma". I would so hate to have to live with that kind of worry about everything I buy.
L
Lula
Guest
diamondseeker2006|1342533970|3235419 said:
Some would argue that we have an ethical obligation to do just that, and to hold companies accountable for their practices. It's very easy to look up the human rights record of companies producing nearly everything we buy - from athletic wear to meat to fruit and vegetables, and, yes, diamonds and colored gems.
InnaR
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As a grandchild of a holocaust survivor, and someone who gave this subject a lot of thought here is what I think.
Even if the OEC you end up with belonged to a Jewish family that did not survive holocaust, the diamond was not the reason for the family to be killed. If anything there is always a chance that this diamond was used to buy a passport and escape.
Watch "Gloomy Sunday" movie, it shows how rich families gave away their family heirlooms for passports in order to leave Hungary.
I grew up thinking how lucky I am to be born thirty years after the Holocaust. But if I was born earlier I wish that my family had few of those OECs, just to have a chance for survival.
So in my mind and heart those OECs are tokens of protection and survival and that is one of the big reasons I love them so much.
I do collect them partially because in the back of my mind it makes me feel safer to know that I have something to trade for the passports for my family if the need will arise. I don’t want to think this way, but I guess it’s in my genes.
Even if the OEC you end up with belonged to a Jewish family that did not survive holocaust, the diamond was not the reason for the family to be killed. If anything there is always a chance that this diamond was used to buy a passport and escape.
Watch "Gloomy Sunday" movie, it shows how rich families gave away their family heirlooms for passports in order to leave Hungary.
I grew up thinking how lucky I am to be born thirty years after the Holocaust. But if I was born earlier I wish that my family had few of those OECs, just to have a chance for survival.
So in my mind and heart those OECs are tokens of protection and survival and that is one of the big reasons I love them so much.
I do collect them partially because in the back of my mind it makes me feel safer to know that I have something to trade for the passports for my family if the need will arise. I don’t want to think this way, but I guess it’s in my genes.
Lula|1342534821|3235426 said:
I think that is a different thing. We need to hold companies accountable for what they are doing right now and in the future ( and in some measure that they stand for what they did in the past) but that is quite different from worrying about what might have happened with an item a hundred years ago.
InnaR
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D
Deactivated member 42515
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I love old cuts and that is definitely what I want. It just never ever came to mind that the diamond could have a bad history. Knowing this could be a possibility, would it make me a bad person if I still really really wanted an Old European? Like you say, my buying it doesn't support it... I mean I obviously will not buy a blood diamond or a diamond that was KNOWN to be stolen from a victim of the war... But I think it's bothering my husband more than anything. He says the thought of it is creepy. He's not really into diamonds and he doesn't understand that jewelry is recycled. That MRB's, etc. could have been cut from old cuts and like Kenny said, gold is recycled... I guess I am at a moral dilemma...vinjewels said:
I know I want an OEC and there is nothing else I want...
InnaR
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YayTacori,
Thank you for understanding what I was trying to say.
I don't know who told you this thing about the OECs, but even though that person might be correct about the facts the message he/she is trying to convey is incorrect one.
Yes, some old diamonds belonged to Jews during the holocaust. However, those diamonds were not the reason holocaust happened. They were cut (probably by European Jewish cutters) to make Jewish men and women happy. Some of them helped some families to escape holocaust. End of the story.
Thank you for understanding what I was trying to say.
I don't know who told you this thing about the OECs, but even though that person might be correct about the facts the message he/she is trying to convey is incorrect one.
Yes, some old diamonds belonged to Jews during the holocaust. However, those diamonds were not the reason holocaust happened. They were cut (probably by European Jewish cutters) to make Jewish men and women happy. Some of them helped some families to escape holocaust. End of the story.
TravelingGal
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The holocaust was a wretched tragedy, and it's a stain that'll never wash out.
There are many other stains too, and there will be more. If the goal is to avoid interacting with anything that might have some association with tragedy diamonds are the least of your worries - you're probably going to have to overhaul your entire life. In this case, whatever a particular stone's history, that movement is long over and whether or not you buy it makes no difference.
The counter-argument is that by buying an old diamond you know you aren't contributing to any current illicit activity that might be involved in mining, shipping, cutting, and selling a "new" stone..
ETA: I believe Infinity tracks their stones from rough through the cutting? I know I've seen pics of rough on the HPD site. Something to look into if a guarantee of clean history is very important to you - they only do RBs though. We did have a poster have an RB re-cut into an OEC-esque w/ those larger pav mains w/ minimal weight loss [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rb-to-oec-recut-before-and-after-pics.177547/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rb-to-oec-recut-before-and-after-pics.177547/[/URL]
There are many other stains too, and there will be more. If the goal is to avoid interacting with anything that might have some association with tragedy diamonds are the least of your worries - you're probably going to have to overhaul your entire life. In this case, whatever a particular stone's history, that movement is long over and whether or not you buy it makes no difference.
The counter-argument is that by buying an old diamond you know you aren't contributing to any current illicit activity that might be involved in mining, shipping, cutting, and selling a "new" stone..
ETA: I believe Infinity tracks their stones from rough through the cutting? I know I've seen pics of rough on the HPD site. Something to look into if a guarantee of clean history is very important to you - they only do RBs though. We did have a poster have an RB re-cut into an OEC-esque w/ those larger pav mains w/ minimal weight loss [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rb-to-oec-recut-before-and-after-pics.177547/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rb-to-oec-recut-before-and-after-pics.177547/[/URL]
I have no doubt that some OECs probably have a troubling past. A few days ago, I was talking to a friend whose parents are Holocaust survivors and she was mentioning that her mother's family was somehow able to save a few of their jewelry pieces but the majority was lost to them. A number of my dad's family members - grandparents, uncles, aunts and cousins, perished in the Holocaust. Of course, any jewelry they owned was stripped from them. No family heirloom, no matter how small, remains.
There is no way any diamonds taken from Holocaust victims can be united with surviving descendants so I just hope that they end up on the fingers, necks or ears of ladies who will enjoy them for many years.
There is no way any diamonds taken from Holocaust victims can be united with surviving descendants so I just hope that they end up on the fingers, necks or ears of ladies who will enjoy them for many years.
Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings
Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings - 04/14
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