Old diamond - worth the $$ ?

[waterpal]

Considering a purchase of a diamond and plat. engagement ring with center 3.05 carat and two side baguettes, .25 each. Price is 25,000. The woman has an appraisal replacement cost for 94,000. given twenty years ago. I would really appreciate your knowledge and opinion about this - thanks


Shape: brilliant round cut
9.29x 9.31 x 5.68
Table 6.1
Girdle - med, faceted
Symmetry: excellent
Culet: none
Polish: excellent
Clarity VVS1
Color: DE
Pavillion Depth: 45.5%
Crown Angle: 38.5 degrees

 

[MWG]

Hi,

Definitely, you need to get an "independent appraiser" that both parties can trust, there is alot of money involved in this transaction. I would not do the deal without one.

Just my opinion
MWG

 

[Lorelei]

The price sounds cheap, it has a very steep crown angle, how does the centre diamond look to you? I wonder, if it would be possible for you to get an independant appraisal of the diamond in the ring to make sure it checks out before purchase? It might be a great deal or it might not be, depends on so many things. If it does check out it could be a bargain. Are you wanting to buy this ring to keep and wear?

 

[surfgirl]

Having just purchased an old cut, I would advise you to have your own independant appraisal done ASAP. See if she''ll sign the stone out to you for a few hours and make an appt. with a good local appraiser. My seller was willing to sign the stone out to me and I made a prior appt. with two appraisers so I had the ring back to the shop later that day. The old appraisal sounds very inflated and an appraisal that is not true to the actual ring is meaningless, IMO. Unless of course it''s a GIA certificate, in which case it would probably be fine, but I''d always get my own appraisal for peace of mind.

Haing said that, does the stone have alot of sparkle? Does it shoot out lots of firey colored chunks of light? Does it seem magical when you look at it in all lighting situations? Have you looked at it outside? Under direct lights? In indirect lighting? If not, you should. And see if you can take a photo and post it here so we can see it. Does the seller have a gem scope that you can view the stone under? It looks like a big microscope. I think some people try to take close up photos through the top lens but I''m not sure. Also, if you''re able to take it to an appraiser, you can also have the appraiser email you the photos they''ll take during the appraisal. If you dont have an appraiser, you can tell us where you live and folks here can help you find a reputable one. Good luck! I''m curious to see a photo of this old gem!

 

[Lorelei]

This is a private sale I take it, not with a jeweller?

 

[waterpal]

The ring is owned by my best friend of thirty years and was sold to her mother in Brooklyn by a family friend, a Hasidic diamond vendor - with the pockets in the coat. I am hoping to wear it - but probably not every day. It seems like a very good price ($$ to pay for law school for the daughter). I would only buy it if it IS a really good price. Good deal for me and for her, as she does really know how to market it. If you think she can sell it higher through here or somewhere I''d be happy to refer her!!

How do I pick an appraiser and approx. what is the cost. I live near Sacramento, CA. THANKS!

 

[Lorelei]

If you go to the top right of the page, you will see the word Resources. Hold the mouse over and you will see the Appraisers option. Click that then you will see a map and area choices, there are 13 in California, but I am unsure where Sacramento is near, there are some in LA and a couple in SD.

Alternatively you can check your phone book or Google for your area. The ring sounds like a great price even if the colour and clarity appraised lower. The appraisal that your friend got years ago probably isn't realistic, I would think if you get an independant appraisal would be the best for both of you to ensure a fair price which suits each party. Depending on how in depth you want the appraisal, it can cost around $100 - 150 roughly from what I understand.

Also selling isn't allowed here but I can give you a thread with helpful advice.

Here you go, Reselling Jewellery

 

[yellowsparkles]

Hi , I am originally from Sacramento and welcome. If you go to the link on this page, you will see an appraiser in the bay area - Nancy Stacey I believe. She is highly recommended. I used an appraiser in Granite Bay - I can find the name later if you are interested.

Sounds like a great ring. Good luck.

 

[waterpal]

Thanks to all who responded. The various pieces of advice were just what I needed! I will get an accurate appraisal from one of the appraisers in the Bay Area. I will enjoy browsing this site before ANY stone purchase from now on!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Paula, one thing to keep in mind is that an appraisal usually is for an inflated retail value. I wouldn''t consider paying more than maybe half the appraised amount. Manyl of us who have bought new diamonds have seen appraisals come in much higher than we paid, so don''t make the mistake of agreeing to pay the appraised price for the stone. That would be all to your friend''s benefit and be a terrible deal for you!

Of course, you can certainly discuss the valuation with the appraiser and try to determine what a fair price might be to pay.

 

[waterpal]

I will share this point with my friend because one could feel disappointed, or even cheated, if one feels that s/he settled for a price that was a lot lower than the "appraised" price, when, in fact, the appraised price was unrealistic to begin with!

 

[Lorelei]

Please do get an independant appraisal so that this ring can be fairly priced for both of you. A D VVS 3 carater is sold for far more than you mention of 25k , so this could be the fairest approach for both of you. Let the appraiser know the reason for this valuation so that he can price it accordingly.

 

[pyramid]

Another reason for the high appraisal may be that before the 80s diamonds reached their peak in prices before the bubble burst and the market fell rapidly. I would imagine a stone of that size, colour and clarity would have been very very expensive, more so than it would be today.

One of the experts here would know better, but I would think a stone of that type looking for a serious buyer would require a GIA report. It would probably be expensive to have it certified by them but would bring it more selling power MAYBE????

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/29/2007 9:11:42 AM
Author: Pyramid
Another reason for the high appraisal may be that before the 80s diamonds reached their peak in prices before the bubble burst and the market fell rapidly. I would imagine a stone of that size, colour and clarity would have been very very expensive, more so than it would be today.

One of the experts here would know better, but I would think a stone of that type looking for a serious buyer would require a GIA report. It would probably be expensive to have it certified by them but would bring it more selling power MAYBE????

I just did a search and I managed to find some 3 ct E VVS1's with GIA report, they are hitting 90k US ballpark from vendors. Of course this is professional new sale so to speak, but it gives us an idea of current prices. If I had a diamond to sell such as this, I would invest some money in a good appraisal geared towards a sale if that is what I wanted, plus a GIA Report as Pyramid suggests. The investment could be very well worth the return in marketing and valuing this diamond properly.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 4/28/2007 8:32:27 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Paula, one thing to keep in mind is that an appraisal usually is for an inflated retail value. I wouldn''t consider paying more than maybe half the appraised amount. Manyl of us who have bought new diamonds have seen appraisals come in much higher than we paid, so don''t make the mistake of agreeing to pay the appraised price for the stone. That would be all to your friend''s benefit and be a terrible deal for you!

Of course, you can certainly discuss the valuation with the appraiser and try to determine what a fair price might be to pay.

DS..

ALL APPRAISALS are not inflated. I will admit those made for "INSURANCE PURPOSES" are.

The key here is to have a thorough discussion with the appraiser of choice, letting her (if you use Nancy), the proper use of her valuation.

In the case of large pre-owned diamonds there is possibly a reason for the appraisal to state several values in various markets.

Loosely stated, this would be for values termed "resale values".

The reason I say multiple values in varying markets is because you need to define who the buyers and sellers are the TERMS of the sale.

A sample might be as follows:


Private Seller to Pawn Shop for immediate cash payment

Private Seller to retailer of estate jewelry for immediate cash payment

Private Seller to retaiiler of estate jewelry placed on consignment and paid if and when sold less a commissiion.

Private Seller to Private Seller

In addition, many times a stone can be made more valuable by recutting it. Again loosely stated, you may have a more valuable stone "inside" the current one. There are risks in recutting and loss of carat weight, and some older stones don''t qualify to be improved. In this approach to valuation, a value before the cutting and an estimation of the value after the cutting is needed. To do this correctly, the stone has to be unset and the analysis will be more accurate and informative if they have a Sarin with the recutting software options, where the appraiser can hypothetically tell you how much weight loss there might be in each various cut grade. The stone will need to be scanned unmounted to accomplish this.


Ring up Nancy and discuss the assignment with her, so that she understands what information you wish, as this is IMPERATIVE for the appraiser to know to do the assignment correctly, so that it provides the information you need for your particular basis for the purchasing decision.


This may cost more than the $ 100-$150 estimated fee, but if you decide based on the information provided, not to purchase the stone, it may be useful for your friend to market it to someone else. In this case, the two of you may decide to split the appraisers cost.

In the above post there is " DE" mentioned. I am assuming this is the color grading, which was previously possible done while the stone was mounted. In a 3.00 carat stone, the difference between the D and E color grades is significant in dollar values.
It is extremely difficult to color grade and separate the difference of D to E in a mounted ( set ) stone. Most competent gemologist will NOT base a color grade on a mounted stone of this size and value difference unless it is unset. Even then it can be difficult to do.

Hope this helps

Rockdoc

 

[Lorelei]

Great expert info, thanks RockDoc.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 4/29/2007 1:58:49 PM
Author: Lorelei
Great expert info, thanks RockDoc.

I am planning a webinar this week on the concerns when valuing OEC and OEM stones, and the concerns with insuring them with a replacement or stated value insurance policy. Also will dicuss and answer valuation questions, and the various markets that apply in different types of appraisals.

It may have to be a typing session as there is some sort of glitch with my camera. I''m trying to figure out why it isn''t working, as it did when I got in on the Pricescope presenter program. It works with my regular software for the cam, but seems the PS software isn''t seeing it.

Rockdoc

 

[Lorelei]

Thanks for that info, I would love to be able to see it and I will look out for times etc. I hope Ellen and Cehra see this post as they would love to see it also. That would be a great topic!