Old Cut Help...

[Mayk]

Thoughts...? I found this at a local Antique Jewelers in town..
2 ct. K SI1
8.06 x 8.34 x ??? (I should write this stuff down.. I don't remember what she said)

I'm not interested in the setting... just the stone... Any thoughts that come to mind...when you see it.. I know hard to tell much...but I know I'm clueless on some of this stuff...
The first picture is outside... of course.. the second in door lighting.. with fuzz on the front of the stone.. it was just cleaned..

 

[bright ice]

It does not appear to be an old cut from what I see, maybe an early RB. It looks more splintery.

 

[Enerchi]

It is beautiful! Does it have florescence? it seems to be glowing bluish in the sunlight - or is that your shirt

I really like the setting - it does seem to suit that stone! Are you planning on keep it? It sure looks gorgeous to my "untrained old cut" eyes!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Not an old cut, or if it is, an early modern brilliant at best. And, in my opinion, not very well cut/desirably cut either Sorry! What was the price?

 

[Mayk]

$8,500.

My shirt is orange...

Thanks Dreamer...

 

[elliemay]

There's a blue/grey/purple haze to it (to my eyes, anyway). Does it look like that in person? I do like the setting!

 

[junebug17]

I'm a little late, but I didn't think it looked like an old cut when I first saw it- maybe an early RB - I think the setting is really pretty!

 

[Dreamer_D]

The colors are not an issue, that is just reflection. My concern is how dark it goes in the second shot, and also how in the centeral area can you see an area with no facets? Just a blank? If I guessed that area would not light up nicely like you want in person. The price is too high for no papers and for not a true old cut IMO For not much more you can get a really well cut M color OEC from a retailer. Also, if you want an old cut, then you want it to look like one, and I don't think this does.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Can you return it? I hope you were not asking for advice after the fact missy!

Here is what I am talking about:

See how within the innermost circle there is just white/blank looking are with no faceting breaking it up? Then see how around that innermost area, in the area circled by the outer red line, there looks like a bit of a black circle? That is a hallmark of a poorly cut RB, the light just isn't doing what it could. Now, in person you saw it and liked it... so my opinion doesn't matter all that much from that perspective since you are seeing it and I am looking at photos. When you look at the stone in many different lighting environemtns, is it lively accross the whole surface? If you look at it at about a half an arms length does it go darn in the muiddle, and in particular, appear to have a dark circle around the inner area (like a bulls eye)? And what are you after with this purchase? And old cut or just a nice big stone?

For comparison, I attached a photo of another early RB that is better cut, can you see the differences? The symmetry ofthe faceting? The fat arrows, how there are areas of light and dark in the area directly overe the culet (in this case slightly open). I did not take this photo, it is an amateur, and the diamond just looks like that because it is nicely cut

 

[Mayk]

Thanks dreamer... This is much harder than it looks!

Heck NO I didn't buy it..without asking first... I need you guys to keep me from falling off a cliff! I want an old cut. In the range of 1.65-1.85. Going to put it in a temporary setting until I decide what I want. I was trying to get out band see some "warmer" colors IRL to see how I liked them and found this one.... And one more I haven't seen yet it was at another store...

 

[Enerchi]

Great example dreamer, to show the difference. Thanks for the demo to learn from

 

[Dreamer_D]

It is hard to buy diamond without lab reports and cut grades! You have to spend a good amount of time learning. A good way is to spend time reading through threads on PS and looking at lots of photos. And ask lots of questions. For me, personally, my knowledge if cut quality more generally is really useful, because I can often recognize in photos the "red flags" of diamond cut that will result in optics that I do not personally like or consider desirable. But it takes time for sure. May if you had told me you got that stone for $3000 I might have said "Let your eyes guide you!" Maybe But you paid good money and should not compromise that much in my estimate.

Do you own a loupe? It is one good way to judge if a stone is an old cut or not. You can use to to look for an open culet That will not always mean its an OEC, some early moden RBs have open culets like the one I showed you, but its a starting point. You can also see the faceting with a loupe and a little practice.

 

[Mayk]

Interesting... Because I did loupe it. With a 10x. I have a 30 but left it at home... I had to use theirs...

I wondered when I could see an arrow if it wasn't a RB.. I don't think I've ever seen an Arrow in an old cut at least pictured here... Because I've never looked at one in a loupe IRL....... Before I took it outside it looked more like an older cut. So glad I took my camera with me!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Transitionals show arrows a lot of the time. Arrows come from lower girdle facets bisecting the pavilion mains. Older old cuts don't really have any lower girdle facets, just the mains, but as you get more modern the lower girdles got longer and longer, creating arrows. Arrows also are a function of the symmetry of the cut, so nice arrows can be a good indication of a nicely symmetrical cut, which, all else being equal, means better cut.

Here are some old cuts with arrows:

 

[Mayk]

So Dreamer.... Would you say...just by the pics....

This is a

A: transitional cut
B: Raunchy RB cut.

Just wondering. I know you can't tell exactly... Just your best Wild A$$ guess... Can I use dollar signs for bad language...? I hope Ella doesnt ban me!

For what it's worth. I said I wouldn't buy it without a cert. it would have to be sent out... I'm still just trying to see what I like. Clearly I need my camera and PS to make a smart decision.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think it is just a garden variety poorly cut RB, maybe an early one but there is no way to tell for sure. It is almost irrelevant to me, based only on photos, because it does not look well cut enough for *my* taste. So the label doesn't matter

You do not need a lab report, most do not have them, and many sellers will not take a diamond out of a mount to get a lab report, so that is often not even something you can get from a seller. Instead, plan to get an appraisal from a trusted person, either locally or you can ship to Neil Beatty or Dave Atlas, both of whom know old cuts well..

 

[Mayk]

Dreamer... I saw this one today... I think it's better.. but it's bigger than I can afford.... same place.. I saw the first one yesterday.. Still gave me an idea about color in real life... this one is 2.5 ct. K-L SI1 no Cert....

PS.. I hate how my hands look blown up!!! egads.. that's very unattractive!

I am wearing a black shirt.. so that may be some of the reflection...

 

[rosetta]

Oh I like this one much better!

 

[Enerchi]

oooh, yes! that looks much better, but i don't know squat apparently on how to tell an OEC from a CZ! I thought the other was pretty as well --- so much to learn, so many mistakes to be made!

Its a beauty Mayk! I hope Dreamer gives this one the DD seal of approval

 

[slg47]

that one is beautiful. is that the original setting?

 

[Mayk]

No they reset it.... It's a stunner for sure... Made me want to run with it on my finger

 

[Dreamer_D]

That one is phenomenal

 

[Mayk]

oooh, yes! that looks much better, but i don't know squat apparently on how to tell an OEC from a CZ! I thought the other was pretty as well --- so much to learn, so many mistakes to be made!

Its a beauty Mayk! I hope Dreamer gives this one the DD seal of approval

Enerchi..you crack me up

 

[Enerchi]

tee hee!!! I aim to please and hope to amuse you all!!!

That really is a beauty! Are you considering that stone or are you still on the hunt?

 

[yssie]

giant table reflection+
not giant table+
lgfs clear under table
=pav depth guess (over)

 

[Dreamer_D]

giant table reflection+
not giant table+
lgfs clear under table
=pav depth guess (over)

whaaaa???

 

[yssie]

giant table reflection+
not giant table+
lgfs clear under table
=pav depth guess (over)

whaaaa???

Haha sorry, wasn't posting from my pc!
Can guess at pav depth by size of table reflection relative to actual table size.
My guess - about what everyone else thinks, it's a no-go for me.

 

[Mayk]

tee hee!!! I aim to please and hope to amuse you all!!!

That really is a beauty! Are you considering that stone or are you still on the hunt?

I'm still looking. That beautiful ring is OUTTA my budget.... Unless I am willing to get a good divorce lawyer... hehehe.

 

[TravelingGal]

Oh thank god you are not getting the first stone and you were talked out of it. Because based on the pictures, I thought it was ugly.

 

[Gypsy]

Oh thank god you are not getting the first stone and you were talked out of it. Because based on the pictures, I thought it was ugly.

Ditto.

I saw the first pic and my heart dropped. Fortunately Dreamer came in to the rescue!!! The setting was lovely but this stone is much better, and I really love this setting too! The rubies bring it to life! Are you sure it's out of budget? Will they negotiate?

DREAMER-- how about doing an old cut article? You with Erica maybe? Your pics and explanations in this thread were wonderful and I think an article based off it would be perfect. Seriously.