ok ive got the numbers, can i get a rough price estimate?

[gnojham]

hi again
damn im posting alot!
ok, i have the numbers of the diamond, i did a holloway rating, got a 1.6, did the aga thing and got a 1b, i entered slightly thin to medium for girdle because i didnt know what 1.0-1.4% is
heres the numbers
56% table
61.1 depth
34.4 deg crown angle
41 deg pavillion angle
15.1% crown depth
43.3% pavillion depth
1.0-1.4% girdle
g color
vs1 clarity
1.208 carats
lazar diamond
can anybody give me a rough estimate of a fair price?
i dont necessarily want to make a killing, i just want to know that i paid a fair price
also, is 1.6 hca good? i know it says excellent, but how good really is 1.6?
same question for the 1b aga
thanks
all
great site!!
this place makes me want to buy more diamonds!!

 

[aljdewey]

According the the pricestats, the average price per carat for a 1b cut stone between 1.00-1.49 cts is $5953, so your stone should run somewhere around $7190.

 

[NYDiamond]

I did the calc a little differently, doing a search on pricestats, the prices for a 1b cut 1.2 carat G/VS1 stone ran between $5,387 and $9,351 (I'm not clear what causes the large disparity in prices on a similarly cut stone) with an average of $7,369.

 

[aljdewey]

I don't understand how you are arriving at this.

When you click on pricestats, and select 1B for cut and search by that cut, it comes back $5953 per carat average. What are you doing differently?

Incidentally, I then scanned diamonds in this range....there is a 1.20 G, VS 1 for EXACTLY $7189. Seems to be right on the money with the $5953/ppct.

 

[aljdewey]

Wait a minute.....it looks like you used the search on the PS home page on the left, and entered in 1.20, G, VS1.

If so, that's why you're getting such a price disparity....in fact, they are not all the same cut quality. The parameters given for depth/table would return results for H&A superideals, 1A cuts, and 1B cuts.

H&As average about $6612 per carat, so a 1.20 H&A diamond would run $7987.

1A average about $6215 per carat; a 1.20 diamond would run $7458.

1B average about $5953 per carat; a 1.20 diamond would run $7190.

If you limit the search to only 1B diamonds, the average price per carat currently is $5953, or $7190 for a 1.208 diamond.

 

[aljdewey]

Also, Gno, keep in mind that the price per carat may fluctuate a bit with the lab. I understand that GIA and AGS certed diamonds run at a slightly elevated cost compared to EGL and others, whose gradings are considered somewhat less consistent.

 

[trichrome]

7500$ would be a reasonable price for such a stone..

Trichrome.

 

[gnojham]

ok, these prices are for internet purchases or for regular stores?
cause i paid a little more than that!

 

[trichrome]

7500$ is roughly 120% the price I would pay for RB 1.2 G VS1 of REGULAR
cut.

Now your stone is a very very good cut. So that's why you're paying more.

Now depending where you went, you paid more or less this price to get yours.

If you paid 10000$US, I would say that you overpaid..

now be calm and go on with your proposal

Trichome.

 

[fire&ice]

Are you saying that your diamond is a Lazare Kaplan stone? If so, they carry a premium. Some can debate whether the premium is worth it or not. They are well cut stones; but, some find they can find a stone w/o the brand (subsequently less money) that has the same if not better cut quality.

 

[gnojham]

7500$ is roughly 120% the price I would pay for RB 1.2 G VS1 of REGULAR
cut.

Now your stone is a very very good cut. So that's why you're paying more.

Now depending where you went, you paid more or less this price to get yours.

If you paid 10000$US, I would say that you overpaid..

now be calm and go on with your proposal

Trichome.
------------------------
the proposal part is already over, we had been looking at rings together
i am going to schedule an appraisal for this weekend. does the lazar cut add any value? because you hit the nail on the head with the $10000. where can i get this quality of diamond in the real world (non internet) for the prices people are quoting here? (6-8 or 9 K)?????
i live in jersey if that helps
also, what can i expect to hear from an independent appraiser? from what you all have said it sounds like theres no way hes going to tell me more than what i paid, right?
also, if anybody wants to pm me with detailed info, feel free
thanks all

 

[gnojham]

Are you saying that your diamond is a Lazare Kaplan stone? If so, they carry a premium. Some can debate whether the premium is worth it or not. They are well cut stones; but, some find they can find a stone w/o the brand (subsequently less money) that has the same if not better cut quality.
--------------------
yes lazare kaplan, i didnt know there was an e in the name
is the premium that heavy, and is it really worth it? apparently they have a lifetime repair gaurantee to recut the diamond to repair, if heaven forbid, any chips

 

[NYDiamond]

gno: Most of the quotes are from the internet. Did you negotiate the price with the vendor? There is a high mark-up at brick and mortar jewelry stores. Considering you live in NJ, you could have checked out 47th Street in NYC, but you have to be pretty knowledgable to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Just enjoy the ring, no sense in checking prices after you've already bought it. It kind of puts a damper on the purchase.

 

[fire&ice]

They are lovely stones. You can be assured of a level of quality. Some believe they may have more cache for resale value.

Perhaps I am thick; but, did you purchase this stone or are you thinking about it? Sorry if you have answered this question already.

Many moons ago, we looked at the Lazare stones. I had my heart set; as, all other diamonds paled in comparsion. That said, we ended up visiting a recommended jeweler who said he could match the cut quality of a Lazare stone. He did & we bought a significantly larger stone for the same price. The Lazare name meant nothing to me except for the fact that they were indeed well cut. This is my story.

If you can not return it, then know you have a very good brand name stone. You *indeeded* paid a premium. But, what's that worth is up to you.

 

[trichrome]

Yeap, LK stones carry a premium...

It's like buying a Bentley in the diamond world... at a Bentley price...
Now they are a lot of Mercedes out there looking as good and performing
as well out there...but you're paying less of course...

So be confident in your purchase..You own a trully excellent stone..(I mean
SHE...

Trichrome.

 

[gnojham]

gno: Most of the quotes are from the internet. Did you negotiate the price with the vendor? There is a high mark-up at brick and mortar jewelry stores. Considering you live in NJ, you could have checked out 47th Street in NYC, but you have to be pretty knowledgable to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Just enjoy the ring, no sense in checking prices after you've already bought it. It kind of puts a damper on the purchase.
------------------------
well, its gonna drive me nuts if i dont check it out
its not the money, its the principle. i know they gotta make money too, its like buying a car, i know they gotta make some money, but i dont want to be raped mercilessly. if the appraisal comes in anything over 9200 ill be ok i suppose, but if it comes in around 7.5, or 8, its going back
somebody recommended i go to 47th street, but i figured it would be the same story as the other 15 places i visited. a bunch of diamonds with slightly different angles and depth and such and the salesperson telling me how beautiful it is and me not being able to tell the difference. i ended up going to the philly diamond district.

 

[aljdewey]

Gno, seeing that you're in NJ, I'd recommend going to see Jonathan at Good Old Gold in Massapequa, NY.

You'll be able to get a stone of equal quality for significantly less money.
I checked the website....here are a few candidates:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_24ct_g_vs1.htm - $8655
http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_21ct_g_si1.htm - $7070
http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_21ct_e_vs1.htm - $9300 - (This one's a SCREAMER!)

Also, I know you said non-internet, but many of the reputable vendors here will ship to an appraiser near you prior to payment so you can see it before you commit. If you can get behind that idea, you can save a bundle. NiceIce has a beautiful stone.....superideal, GIA, F/VS-2 for $8,035 here: http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_24ct_g_vs1.htm

Totally depends on what your priority is. The price you paid isn't terrible for a B&M store designer name stone....so if "no muss, no fuss" is your goal, sounds like you did okay. But if you were willing to expand the horizons a bit, you could get an equally beautiful screamer of a stone for significantly less money.

Whatever you decide, good luck.

 

[gnojham]

Yeap, LK stones carry a premium...

It's like buying a Bentley in the diamond world... at a Bentley price...
Now they are a lot of Mercedes out there looking as good and performing
as well out there...but you're paying less of course...

So be confident in your purchase..You own a trully excellent stone..(I mean
SHE...

Trichrome.


--------------------
will the appraiser take into account the lazare name when giving an approximate retail value?

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 8/4/2003 12:42:33 PM gnojham wrote:

if the appraisal comes in anything over 9200 ill be ok i suppose, but if it comes in around 7.5, or 8, its going back.

----------------

Gno, the appraisal WILL come back significantly more than that, but I personally don't believe that means much. It's common for appraisals to reflect a value that is double (or nearly double) what you paid.

The price you got for a non-internet purchase was fair, but again, you could get equal quality at a MUCH better price by going to a few of the vendors here.....(most of whom have traditional store presences, like GOG, Whiteflash, NiceIce, etc.)

 

[fire&ice]

They should. If they don't know about LK, then I would run fast away from that appraiser. LK's have been around for a long long time. They are in the biz news often.

Good luck & settle down. You have paid a premium for a well know branded stone.

 

[aljdewey]

Maybe it might make you feel better about your purchase to view it this way:

My father cannot stand to shop.....hates it with a passion. So, when he has to go out and find something for my mother, he simply finds what he likes and buys it. He knows he could probably get a better price if he "shopped" around, but he'd rather consume live ants than go through that process. His viewpoint: I know I may pay more, but the extra dollars I'm paying are WELL worth not having to go through that. BUT.....he doesn't angst over the deal he got once he makes the purchase, because he knew going into it that he may not be getting the most competitive price. He's willing to pay the "premium" of avoiding the shopping thing.

If this is how you feel about the whole thing, too, then I'd say you paid a decent price to avoid more intense shopping in other venues.

Enjoy the purchase.

 

[gnojham]

Maybe it might make you feel better about your purchase to view it this way:

My father cannot stand to shop.....hates it with a passion. So, when he has to go out and find something for my mother, he simply finds what he likes and buys it. He knows he could probably get a better price if he "shopped" around, but he'd rather consume live ants than go through that process. His viewpoint: I know I may pay more, but the extra dollars I'm paying are WELL worth not having to go through that. BUT.....he doesn't angst over the deal he got once he makes the purchase, because he knew going into it that he may not be getting the most competitive price. He's willing to pay the "premium" of avoiding the shopping thing.

If this is how you feel about the whole thing, too, then I'd say you paid a decent price to avoid more intense shopping in other venues.

Enjoy the purchase.
-------------
thats a pretty good method, except i did spend alot of time searching!!! i tried to educate myself the best i could so i wouldnt get hosed too bad, but apparently it didnt help!!
if i had found this place earlier, i would have been thrilled
its still not too late, maybe i can call this gog place and cancel this deal here
who knows
btw, to all, please dont say nice things to make me feel better if you feel i got a bad deal considering the factors
btw2, ill try to post a pic tonight when i get home
thanks again all!!

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 8/4/2003 1:12:36 PM gnojham wrote:
thats a pretty good method, except i did spend alot of time searching!!! i tried to educate myself the best i could so i wouldnt get hosed too bad, but apparently it didnt help!!
if i had found this place earlier, i would have been thrilled
its still not too late, maybe i can call this gog place and cancel this deal here who knows
btw, to all, please dont say nice things to make me feel better if you feel i got a bad deal considering the factors
btw2, ill try to post a pic tonight when i get home
thanks again all!!

----------------

Gno, a few comments. 1) You didn't get a "bad deal" for what you bought....a branded diamond at a B&M store. You got a fair price. Both those factors will carry a premium and cause you to pay more than you would if you bought at a non B&M store or bought a non-branded stone.

It depends on what your priorities are, and only you know those are. Some people's top priority is the designer name "aka Tiffany's"; some people's priority is "non-internet" stone; yet another is "how can I get the best stone for the most reasonable amount of money". Yet another person says "I want the BIGGEST stone I can get for $xxx money." Only you know what's important to you.

You'll find that most people here share a few priorities: Most of us consider cut to be KING...the most important thing. Most of us also burn with desire to get the most reasonable deal we can for that quality...we want the thrill of knowing we saved $1000 or $2000 on a stone that can go toe-to-toe with top-quality stones.

Is there a reason you're adverse to internet? Most of the oft-recommended vendors here will ship stone to appraiser for you to evaluate as part of sale. Also, you can save a ton in sales tax.

Bottom line: If you don't give a hoot about a "lazare" diamond, and if it would be meaningful to you to save $2-3K while getting a stone of comparable quality (less the designer lazar name), then by all means cancel the deal and go for it. If you don't mind having paid a premium in exchange for the ease of hands-on shopping and buying the lazare name, then stick with what you got. The numbers on your diamond suggest that you bought a beautiful diamond, so it's not as though you made a poor choice. The only thing that matter now is: do you care that you could have gotten a comparable diamond for $2-3K less? Only you know that.

Good luck.

 

[Mara]

Coming into the thread a little late but I would definitely say you overpaid (Since you said to not only say nice things because you can change your decision!

)...the LK is a great brand name and well cut and all but so are GOG's diamonds and they carry significantly less of a premium. The stones you will see on GOG's site and in their store most likely at least rival the LK in terms of beauty, sparkle, cut, fire, etc. Plus they are less. You can even get a larger stone possibly for the same $$. Plus they have all the great reporting on their site that the LK jeweler will *definitely* not have, always fun to see random reporting on your stone. Since you ARE in the area that GOG is located, I would at least check them out while you have the opportunity to--before your return policy on this stone is up.

You seem like you want to cover all the bases, if you have an opp to get the best deal possible on the best cut stone, I would take it.. If you are the type of person that feels as though you NEED to know you got a great deal..I am the same way, if I don't know all the facts it really bothers me. This is a purchase you are making for life, so you don't want to second guess yourself at a later date when the decision is already completely final. So at least cover all the bases...check out the GOG stones, see what you think and if in the end you stick with the LK stone and the higher markup for whatever reason, at least you did your homework and made an educated decision.

Best of luck!!

 

[elmo]

----------------
On 8/4/2003 2:51

0 PM aljdewey wrote:
You didn't get a "bad deal" for what you bought....a branded diamond at a B&M store. You got a fair price. Both those factors will carry a premium and cause you to pay more than you would if you bought at a non B&M store or bought a non-branded stone.
----------------

Al is right on the money. Why are you second guessing yourself? If it's a done deal, enjoy the stone...LK makes a nice product. If the store has a money-back guarantee and you want to explore internet options, fine, that works too.

 

[fire&ice]

BTW, I *seriously* considered the smaller Lazare stone. My practical nature ruled in the end. I don't know about now - but back then (20 years ago) they knocked me out. And, they were considered the best of the best. They have a proven track record. If memory serves me, they were the original branded stone.

How do you feel about paying extra for the name recognition? LK stones are not like paying extra for the Tiffany name.

You need to ask yourself these questions. You seem to want to buy from a B&M. You seem to want a quality stone. The LK stone is a safe bet. BTW, what you paid seems in line w/ the premium LK stones carry. Did you pay the least amount for a stone of your specs? No. Did you get a decent "deal"? Sounds like it.

 

[gnojham]

hi again all
i posted a couple pics in the show me the ring forum

 

[aljdewey]

On 8/4/2003 4:31:13 PM elmo wrote:

---------------
[/quote]
Al is right on the money. Why are you second guessing yourself? If it's a done deal, enjoy the stone...LK makes a nice product. If the store has a money-back guarantee and you want to explore internet options, fine, that works too.
----------------
[/quote]

Thanks, Elmo, but lest I be misinterpreted.......I don't think this is a done deal. If it were up to me, I'd return this stone and shop with GOG or one of the other online vendors. However, GNO expressly stated that he wanted a non-internet stone, and I'm not sure how negotiable his position on this is.

Personally, I'm the type that cannot stand to pay $2-3K more just to get "the name". If this were me, I'd take back the Lazar and get an AMAZING stone for much less. However, I don't know if GNO cares as much as I do about the thrill of making a smart purchase. If he does, he should return the stone.

 

[elmo]

Done deal was my comment Al. You were nicely telling him he paid a fair b&m price for a nice stone but that equivalent stones are available 20-30% less over the internet. I disagree with your latest assessment though - I can't be sure but I'm guessing there's no money back guarantee and he's stuck with buyer's remorse after hanging around here a little while. If that's the case, so what? He has a really nice stone. The chorus of folks telling him to do something else is coming just a bit too late and isn't helping. He needs to get on with life and engagement with his perfectly beautiful LK diamond else it's honey I want your ring back cause I paid too much???? I guess I don't have too much sympathy.

 

[fire&ice]

What seems to be a missing important point is that Lazare stones *are* considered premium. This is not a case of a blue box. These stones are cut to specification & the house has a long history in the biz. They are not a retailer. They are not a johnny come lately to the branded market nor to the diamond industry in general. They *are* the branded market. The name is a force to reckon with.

Some threads back, Garry even stated that LK stones hold their value more than other stones.

The issue is *what* Gno thinks of owning this LK stone; and, is the premium worth it to *them*. Again, LK stones are not just a blue box. Personally, in my mind, it's a toss up - and I am *not* a name chaser.