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Offered old diamond, pass or take?

lxAsTrOxl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Messages
128
So, I've been lurking around here trying to answer all my questions by digging through old threads, but I feel now it's time I join, especially because this situation I need some direct advice.

Long story short, a very kind hearted elderly gentlemen and major jewelry connoisseur from my church, whom I've known since I was about 4, approaches me about a diamond. Now we had spoke off and on over the past few months, he knows what I'm wanting to spend and what I'm generally looking for.

He does jewelry buying and selling on the side, mainly for himself to have jewelry haha. He had some past folks hed bought from inherit a diamond and asked if he knew anyone interested. Normally he'd direct to a local jeweler he's friends with, but when this diamond came up he said he wanted to show me. No obligation to buy, just as a friend wondering if I'd want it before he passes it on to the jeweler.

So it's an old European cut, which he's estimating is about 100+ years since it was cut, as they inherited it from their great aunt who inherited it from someone else. It's 2.24ct, J color, I2 clarity (both inclusions on sides and pretty well hidden by setting prongs) and these ratings came from an appraisal from some jeweller in the 80's (he's going to give me the name tonight). They couple is asking only $10k but he assures he could get them down to $8500-$9000 for me, granted I would give him $500 for this kind gesture. He's giving me about a week (doesn't want the sellers to wait around too long, they just don't want to keep it). But he's being such a generous friend about it, no pressure, he understands it's an important thing. I don't want anyone here to think he's pushing it on me, he's like a very close uncle or grandfather to me and will take no offense or concern to me declining the diamond.

Generally I was looking for something like this

http://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.01-carat-j-color-vvs2-clarity-good-cut-sku-363583

But I am attracted to the uniqueness and class of an old European.

I'll post a couple pics I took of the diamond. I believe in the picture with it on my hand at the bottom prong you may be able to see some inclusion, but photos were taken with iPhone 6. By the way my finger is a size 8.5 or 9, this is one fat rock! Haha

imageuploadedbytapatalk1423154044.jpg

imageuploadedbytapatalk1423154054.jpg
 
Hmmm, If this is a OEC it should show an open culet, plus it does not look like OEC faceting... :confused:
 
Dancing Fire|1423155692|3827799 said:
Hmmm, If this is a OEC it should show an open culet, plus it does not look like OEC faceting... :confused:

Hello, this is the OP, I registered my account on the tapatalk app and it did something funky and I cannot log into that account so I had to make a new one on the computer. It may not be OEC, I'm not sure what it is. By culet do you mean the bottom? It doesnt come to a point, it is flat at the bottom.
 
Also, I got ahold of it's last appraisal known. It was at Bockman in Aurora, IL. Appraisal is from 1983, valued at $7800. J color, I2 clarity, 2.24ct.
 
That's not an OEC or a Transitional.

It's an early modern round brilliant and not a well cut one.
 
Gypsy said:
That's not an OEC or a Transitional.

It's an early modern round brilliant and not a well cut one.

I was afraid of that. So it's probably not worth what they are wanting?
 
Also, another total shot in the dark noob question. Since inclusion is on the side, and according to gypsy the cuts aren't the best, is it possible to have it cut down a bit to remove inclusions and make it look nicer while staying over 2cts?
 
I just joined, weird that it's showing up under my name as if i posted this topic.....pricescope you got some explaining to do.
 
aututto said:
I just joined, weird that it's showing up under my name as if i posted this topic.....pricescope you got some explaining to do.

Haha that is weird because I posted it under a username "Aututto" but it won't let me log into it nor register it!
 
Recuts are risky: stuff can happen and nobody can guarantee that you will be left with a diamond that is still above the 2 ct mark. Add the recutting fee and cutting risk, you are probably better off buying a stone that fits your specification right from the get-go. Depending on how close/far the inclusions are from the girdle and the size, if you plan to cut it out, you might end with a diamond 2/3 the mm size of the original.
 
chrono said:
Recuts are risky: stuff can happen and nobody can guarantee that you will be left with a diamond that is still above the 2 ct mark. Add the recutting fee and cutting risk, you are probably better off buying a stone that fits your specification right from the get-go. Depending on how close/far the inclusions are from the girdle and the size, if you plan to cut it out, you might end with a diamond 2/3 the mm size of the original.

Oh that doesn't sound very exciting! Haha.
 
IF you can get them to agree to a 15 day FULL REFUND, no contingencies, return policy, you can buy it and have it sent to Brian Gavin Diamonds and Brian can tell you if it is a good candidate for a recut. If it is, it may be worth it. If it's not, you return it.
 
Gypsy said:
IF you can get them to agree to a 15 day FULL REFUND, no contingencies, return policy, you can buy it and have it sent to Brian Gavin Diamonds and Brian can tell you if it is a good candidate for a recut. If it is, it may be worth it. If it's not, you return it.

It's a private seller so I can see. Thank you for the helpful advice! You seem to know everything, glad people like you are here :) If diamond were to be purchased from $8.5-$9k would it be worth it? I'm still trying to understand its value. Also what is a ballpark price for a recut?
 
calibre|1423162418|3827860 said:
Gypsy said:
IF you can get them to agree to a 15 day FULL REFUND, no contingencies, return policy, you can buy it and have it sent to Brian Gavin Diamonds and Brian can tell you if it is a good candidate for a recut. If it is, it may be worth it. If it's not, you return it.

It's a private seller so I can see. Thank you for the helpful advice! You seem to know everything, glad people like you are here :) If diamond were to be purchased from $8.5-$9k would it be worth it? I'm still trying to understand its value. Also what is a ballpark price for a recut?

One important thing to note about a recut - since the stone is I2 clarity, I would ask the appraiser to tell you more about the inclusions.

I2 stones often have durability issues.

It's possible that this would not be a candidate for recut based on clarity alone. It's also possible that the inclusions are in just the right place and a recut can vastly improve the clarity. Obviously we can't say this from a remote location, but just something to be aware of, when considering different options!
 
calibre|1423162418|3827860 said:
Gypsy said:
IF you can get them to agree to a 15 day FULL REFUND, no contingencies, return policy, you can buy it and have it sent to Brian Gavin Diamonds and Brian can tell you if it is a good candidate for a recut. If it is, it may be worth it. If it's not, you return it.

It's a private seller so I can see. Thank you for the helpful advice! You seem to know everything, glad people like you are here :) If diamond were to be purchased from $8.5-$9k would it be worth it? I'm still trying to understand its value. Also what is a ballpark price for a recut?
The last I heard was 350 per ct, so in your case $785 + $200 lab report + shipping = approx $1050
 
pass, too risky.
 
Sorry not the best picture, but if memore serves me right the inclusion is by the bottom prong.

imageuploadedbytapatalk1423163751.jpg
 
Thanks dancing fire and rocky raccoon! :)
 
Definitely not an old cut.
 
Gypsy said:
Definitely not an old cut.

So is it an early modern round brilliant as you say? Or something else?
 
Looks like a not well cut modern RB.
 
chrono said:
Looks like a not well cut modern RB.

Okay, excuse my lack of knowledge, but what are some indicators of good or bad cut? Also, would sending it to be recut, if possible, fix the issue of cut?
 
calibre|1423168102|3827909 said:
chrono said:
Looks like a not well cut modern RB.

Okay, excuse my lack of knowledge, but what are some indicators of good or bad cut? Also, would sending it to be recut, if possible, fix the issue of cut?

Looks like it has a larger table and lots of leakage under the table. Also looks like it has a flat crown. No visible arrows (which
you wouldnt see if it were an true OEC but from the pics it doesnt look like one.)

BTW, that stone you posted from JA is also poorly cut. Please dont buy a stone without learning more about cut or, without our help!!!

A recut to fix the cut - if it could be done (I'm thinking not likely because of the I2 but it would have to be evaluated) would probably
cause you to loose a lot of weight because it looks like it has a flat crown to me. However, no one can really say without an
evaluation by a cutter.

I would wait till a better (real) OEC came around.

Here are a few nice OECs...
http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1-55ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-j-vs1/
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-64ct-old-european-cut-diamond#.VNPYt53F-YE

You could also talk to Old World Diamonds
http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=502&SHAPE=EU
 
tyty333|1423169861|3827917 said:
calibre|1423168102|3827909 said:
chrono said:
Looks like a not well cut modern RB.

Okay, excuse my lack of knowledge, but what are some indicators of good or bad cut? Also, would sending it to be recut, if possible, fix the issue of cut?

Looks like it has a larger table and lots of leakage under the table. Also looks like it has a flat crown. No visible arrows (which
you wouldnt see if it were an true OEC but from the pics it doesnt look like one.)

BTW, that stone you posted from JA is also poorly cut. Please dont buy a stone without learning more about cut or, without our help!!!

A recut to fix the cut - if it could be done (I'm thinking not likely because of the I2 but it would have to be evaluated) would probably
cause you to loose a lot of weight because it looks like it has a flat crown to me. However, no one can really say without an
evaluation by a cutter.

I would wait till a better (real) OEC came around.

Here are a few nice OECs...
http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1-55ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-j-vs1/
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-64ct-old-european-cut-diamond#.VNPYt53F-YE

You could also talk to Old World Diamonds
http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=502&SHAPE=EU

Great post thank you so much! How did you find those OEC's? My budget for a diamond was more around the $13k range, how much could I go up in size on an OEC similar to the ones you shared?
 
Jewels by Grace and Love Affair Diamonds are old favored vendors. They are well like around here. I've never had the pleasure of
working with them but I hear they are lovely ladies.

Old World Diamonds is also popular.


Higher carat weights

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-48ct-antique-cushi0n-cut-ags-j-si2#.VNPdkZ3F-YE cushion
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-25ct-old-european-cut-diamond-uncerted-est-to-be-n-o-vs#.VNPeap3F-YE

You would need to call OWD because they dont post pictures of most of their stones.
 
Here is someone else you should talk to. He is on ebay but has a B&M store in Chicago. A few PSers went and took a look at all
his goodies. There is a thread about it. I'll see if I can find it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-71c-EGL-USA-CERTIFIED-VINTAGE-OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-DIAMOND-ANTIQUE-ROUND-3CT-LOOSE-/151571497166?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item234a5d80ce


BTW...most old stones are not graded by GIA because they don't rate as being well cut using round brilliant standards. You will
see mostly EGL which in this case is acceptable.
 
RE: this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-71c-EGL-USA-CERTIFIED-VINTAGE-OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-DIAMOND-ANTIQUE-ROUND-3CT-LOOSE-/151571497166?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item234a5d80ce&rmvSB=true ...Probably closer to an GIA M-N in color that one, but it's got nice faceting.

Cut is a combination of faceting and performance. That stone looks like it is a bad performer and the faceting isn't up to standards for either an old cut or a MRB. Also I know the appraisal said the stone you are considering from a local buyer is a J. But if the appraiser called that an old cut, then they don't know their elbow from their toes... so there is a high chance that it is not a J.
 
tyty333|1423171361|3827931 said:
Jewels by Grace and Love Affair Diamonds are old favored vendors. They are well like around here. I've never had the pleasure of
working with them but I hear they are lovely ladies.

Old World Diamonds is also popular.


Higher carat weights

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-48ct-antique-cushi0n-cut-ags-j-si2#.VNPdkZ3F-YE cushion
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-25ct-old-european-cut-diamond-uncerted-est-to-be-n-o-vs#.VNPeap3F-YE

You would need to call OWD because they dont post pictures of most of their stones.

Many thanks! So glad I came here first, you've found more in the past 30 minutes than I have in a few days! Now, dropping below J in color, how noticeable is yellow tint? From most of these pictures I'm seeing they seem to be more clear as opposed to brightness in higher colors, am I understanding that right?
 
Gypsy|1423171930|3827935 said:
RE: this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-71c-EGL-USA-CERTIFIED-VINTAGE-OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-DIAMOND-ANTIQUE-ROUND-3CT-LOOSE-/151571497166?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item234a5d80ce&rmvSB=true ...Probably closer to an GIA M-N in color that one, but it's got nice faceting.

Cut is a combination of faceting and performance. That stone looks like it is a bad performer and the faceting isn't up to standards for either an old cut or a MRB. Also I know the appraisal said the stone you are considering from a local buyer is a J. But if the appraiser called that an old cut, then they don't know their elbow from their toes... so there is a high chance that it is not a J.

Now looking at more stones in comparison, I'm starting to see what you mean about the cut. As to the appraisal, it said nothing about the style of cut, just size, clarity, and color, so they may be accurate on color but I am no expert.
 
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