OECs with EGL appraisal or certs

[clearfading]

Would you buy OECs that are EGL cert or comes with an EGL appraisal whatever that means. I understand that these vintage pieces are sometimes not GIA certed since they don't want to remove the diamonds from the settings. With this being the case, how do I know what the true value of a stone is compared to the purchase price? I have a bunch of tools, ASET, loop etc and can try to scrutinize the diamonds before purchasing but just want to ask if anyone knows how to advise on what the price for an uncerted or EGL certed stone would be as compared to a more trustworthy lab GIA, AGS.

 

[kgizo]

Good question! I hope someone with some knowledge chimes in.

 

[LightBright]

I'm not a prosumer. But what I've observed is that EGL lab reports are often two grades or more lower than GIA in color. Clarity seems to be more accurate.

Do not believe any vendor who tells you that they chose EGL because it does not require you to take the stone out of the setting. Jewelers can easily take a stone out of a setting and pop it back in (in fact I see many antique settings where the original stone has been replaced by an inferior stone, but that's another issue).

The real reason that vendors use EGL is to trick the consumer into thinking that they are getting a bargain on a stone that if graded by GIA, would be priced less. Sometimes a lot less.

By the way, none of this matters if you love the stone you see with your own eyes, and want to pay the price. Just be aware of the reality, for re-selling purposes. I advocate seeing any stone with your own eyes and confirming it suits your tastes and budget before purchasing.

 

[LightBright]

Clearfading, for old cut stones, traditional diamond tools often don't help you as much as the opinion of experienced PSers and vendors.

With old cut stones, cut is a big deal, and even with a gorgeous cut, an old stone can have a funky ASET for example. It could also have a lower color or more inclusions than what you might want in an MRB. GETTING THE RIGHT CUT is important in selecting an old cut stone. So I'd suggest posting good images in Rocky Talky (along with your desires for color, diameter/ carat weight and clarity) so that prosumers can help you evaluate your options, even if they are EGL certed.

 

[clearfading]

Thanks for the helpful feedback! Yes, it was about some stones I had seen in downtown LA with my own eyes. When I go back I will get photos/video etc or even ask if any local PSers want to help me eval in person

 

[foxinsox]

I believe that GIA used to grade OECs as if they were MRBs with the accompanying poor grades in cut that come with applying one cut's specifications to another so a number of vendors used to use EGL as they would get a realistic grading that way of an OEC on its OEC merits, rather than as if it was a crappy MRB. I'm not sure if that's still the case however since you see a lot of GIA and AGS graded OECs at JBG and LAD etc. (sorry for all the acronyms!!)
EGL is usually assumed to be ~2 grades lower on colour, sometimes out on clarity. If you're wondering if the price on a stone is worth it - check out what comparable GIA or AGS graded stones of the specs are going for or make the sale contingent on a GIA or AGS regrade.
As LightBright says tho, the best way to evaluate old cuts is with your eyes - post pictures in RockyTalky if you want opinions and suggestions too. We LOVE looking at diamonds - the more pictures, the better!

 

[Katesimone]

Do not believe any vendor who tells you that they chose EGL because it does not require you to take the stone out of the setting. Jewelers can easily take a stone out of a setting and pop it back in

This is not really true - there are certain settings that will be ruined/damaged if the stone is removed. In my opinion, the integrity of the piece is more important than a GIA certification.

 

[LightBright]

This is not really true - there are certain settings that will be ruined/damaged if the stone is removed. In my opinion, the integrity of the piece is more important than a GIA certification.

I agree. Taking an old stone out of a setting and popping it back is inherently risky. But it's done all the time by the dealers. We even see it here on PS that after someone takes an old stone out of a setting to certify it, the prongs or the integrity of the piece are damaged in a way that no modern jeweler has the ability to repair.

We rarely see old cut stones set in their original settings anymore. If a dealer has an antique stone come in, that stone has almost ALWAYS been carefully evaluated for recutting purposes. As an amateur old cut lover, I see stones on EBay or in antique shops all the time that are obviously not the original stone of the setting. The original stone has been lost to a recut somewhere and has been replaced with an inferior stone.

The reality of diamond dealing is that most old cut stones (I'm talking about those over a carat) remain that way because of their COLOR being undesirable for a recut. In other words, the stone is more valuable as an intact old cut than it is as a recut MRB.

The dealers almost always have to remove that antique stone in order to even informally assess color. So unless the dealer is a non specialist, or an absolute purist the dealer has already removed the stone from the setting (sometimes keeping it apart, sometimes resetting It back in) before listing the price. GIA is the preferred certification right now for antique stones because it provides standardization on color, mostly. EGL is extremely inconsistent IMO. IMO Any dealer who uses EGL consistently instead of GIA is trying to somehow present their stones as being more valuable than they are, because EGL really does tell you nothing about color. This is not good for the customer because there is literally no way to accurately gauge re-sale value.

So in the case of a rare piece that comes in to an antique jewelry dealer and is too fabulous to take apart to cert, MAYBE that dealer wouldn't do a GIA lab report but would tell you their honest estimate about the stone's color, clarity etc. Erica of Love Affaire Diamonds, Adam of Old World Diamonds, Grace of Jewels by Grace, Jocelyn of Gilded Lane, Anya of GemFever, all have very solid skills in estimating true GIA color of a stone that doesn't have a lab report and is out of a setting. But they would all tell you you have to remove a stone from the setting in order to really accurately assess Color and clarity.