OEC

[that_someone_special]

Where can I find some good information on OEC?? What is a realistic price to pay for a 1.10 I color Si1 clarity OEC??

Are there any threads for just OEC''''s?? I tried to find one but couldn''''t!! Thank you..

 

[purrfectpear]

There was a sweet OEC Round Brilliant ring on eBay 1.57 L VS. I was in negotiations with the seller last week. I think they''re asking $4900 prior to negotiations, which is actually a pretty good price (includes platinum setting). I liked it and was going to pull the trigger but found a cushion I liked better. Normally I wouldn''t recommend eBay but this seller seemed quite honest and I really like the stone & you could see the condition in the pics pretty well.

There are a few vendors who can source them but they''ll be more in the $3400 to $5000 range for a one carat. Old World Diamonds is one such vendor.

 

[ericad]

Search PS under OEC, Old European, and antique diamonds.

Price for a nicely cut 1-ish carat OEC will vary greatly depending on accuracy of grading. Uncerted stones will be priced more aggressively, but there''s more risk to the buyer unless the vendor is reputable (and even then, we find that there is a lot of "loose" grading). For stones that are certed, you have to weigh EGL certification versus GIA. Lots of factors will contribute to the price.

 

[kimikocat]

Date: 6/19/2008 12:13:27 AM
Author: ericad
Search PS under OEC, Old European, and antique diamonds.


Price for a nicely cut 1-ish carat OEC will vary greatly depending on accuracy of grading. Uncerted stones will be priced more aggressively, but there''s more risk to the buyer unless the vendor is reputable (and even then, we find that there is a lot of ''loose'' grading). For stones that are certed, you have to weigh EGL certification versus GIA. Lots of factors will contribute to the price.

Hi Erica,

I''ve always been curious about how the GIA grades old cuts, and I''ve seen a lot more old cuts with EGL than GIA papers. Can you please tell us a little bit about how the labs grade? I''d be interested to know more about key distinctions in method, what graders consider, etc...

Thank you!

 

[surfgirl]

I''ve never seen an antique stone with an EGL lab cert. I''ve only ever seen GIA certs for antique stones. They dont really seem to grade them differently, as far as I know, though I wish they did!

 

[ericad]

Most certs on old stones that I've seen are EGL. Take, for example, Old World Diamonds. The majority of their stones are EGL certed, rather than GIA.

We have just sent 2 of our stones out to GIA for certification. We chose GIA because of their reputation for stricter grading, though I confess this will be our first experience with any grading lab. But if you research EGL vs GIA here, you will find lots of information on the matter, and the consensus is that EGL grades more loosely than GIA.

So when I said pricing may be affected based on the cert, what I meant was - what EGL calls an I, for example, might in fact be a GIA J or K. So make sure you're comparing apples to apples, as EGL certed stones may give the illusion of better pricing. We chose GIA for a reason - we want our stones graded as strictly as possible. If I saw an EGL certed stone, I'd evaluate price based on the assumption that the color will be 1-2 grades lower. If the price is still fair, then no problem with the purchase.

But again, this is based on the extensive research I've done, but not direct experience with either lab. Though it would be an interesting experiment to send the same stone to both labs and see what happens!

 

[kimikocat]

Date: 6/19/2008 11:57:40 PM
Author: ericad
Most certs on old stones that I''ve seen are EGL. Take, for example, Old World Diamonds. The majority of their stones are EGL certed, rather than GIA.


We have just sent 2 of our stones out to GIA for certification. We chose GIA because of their reputation for stricter grading, though I confess this will be our first experience with any grading lab. But if you research EGL vs GIA here, you will find lots of information on the matter, and the consensus is that EGL grades more loosely than GIA.


So when I said pricing may be affected based on the cert, what I meant was - what EGL calls an I, for example, might in fact be a GIA J or K. So make sure you''re comparing apples to apples, as EGL certed stones may give the illusion of better pricing. We chose GIA for a reason - we want our stones graded as strictly as possible. If I saw an EGL certed stone, I''d evaluate price based on the assumption that the color will be 1-2 grades lower. If the price is still fair, then no problem with the purchase.


But again, this is based on the extensive research I''ve done, but not direct experience with either lab. Though it would be an interesting experiment to send the same stone to both labs and see what happens!

I''ve noticed that Old World Diamonds mostly uses EGL. They distinguish between EGL and EGL USA. (Wonder why--Do the different arms use slightly different methods & standards?) I think Single Stone also uses EGL for some of their stones. Over here in SF, Lang uses both GIA and EGL. I think it would be really interesting to try both labs with the same stone. I''d be curious to see how the training/methodology differs. If someone else reading this post has any knowledge, please share!

Grades don''t bother me. I love a warm colored stone, and I keep hoping that my searches will turn up a stone that''s so yellow it''s basically a fancy light yellow. But I understand that they are very important to others.

 

[LGK]

Kimiko, that was what I did when shopping for an OEC in January- just looked for the lowest color with the prettiest cut & eye clean. As a result I was able to get a 1.22 ct OEC from OldWorldDiamonds for $2500; it is an N colored SI1 with an EGL USA cert. I have never had it independantly evaluated but I have been able to compare it to a number of other diamonds, and I am reasonably experienced with lower colors, and I believe it is right on the border of N and O color, could go either way sent to GIA I would think. The SI1 is exactly right I think- it is eyeclean perfectly from all angles but has a tiny feather with a crystal right near the girdle that is quickly apparent under a loupe. The cut is beautiful and very firey- I had Adam evaluate a number of stones for me and pick the one he felt looked like the sparkliest. Their return policy was excellent too.

I don''t regret getting a low color at all; I find the off white in OEC and other antique cuts to be beautiful. I like crisp white in RBs but I do actually prefer a hint of color in OECs. I have an M color OEC, which would be a GIA M, and it is also a color I adore. The M looks whiter in more lights, and has less yellow noticeable. It is more of a steely color face up most of the time (though it isn''t a top brown or greyish, it is definitely off white to yellow from the side).

This is a stone I always liked on OWD''s site for those looking for a light yellow OEC in a larger size for a sorta reasonable price: Light Yellow OEC It''s 2.31 carats, a champagne-ish light yellow, and according to Adam (yeah, I called & asked) eyeclean at SI2 with a really sparkly cut, no nailhead even though it hovers on the shallowish side. The price is not bad, I think... after finding my 3.55 ct OEC it looks high to me now, but I think it is actually pretty decent. I sure stared at it enough!

 

[kimikocat]

Date: 6/20/2008 1:30:15 AM
Author: LittleGreyKitten
Kimiko, that was what I did when shopping for an OEC in January- just looked for the lowest color with the prettiest cut & eye clean. As a result I was able to get a 1.22 ct OEC from OldWorldDiamonds for $2500; it is an N colored SI1 with an EGL USA cert. I have never had it independantly evaluated but I have been able to compare it to a number of other diamonds, and I am reasonably experienced with lower colors, and I believe it is right on the border of N and O color, could go either way sent to GIA I would think. The SI1 is exactly right I think- it is eyeclean perfectly from all angles but has a tiny feather with a crystal right near the girdle that is quickly apparent under a loupe. The cut is beautiful and very firey- I had Adam evaluate a number of stones for me and pick the one he felt looked like the sparkliest. Their return policy was excellent too.


I don''t regret getting a low color at all; I find the off white in OEC and other antique cuts to be beautiful. I like crisp white in RBs but I do actually prefer a hint of color in OECs. I have an M color OEC, which would be a GIA M, and it is also a color I adore. The M looks whiter in more lights, and has less yellow noticeable. It is more of a steely color face up most of the time (though it isn''t a top brown or greyish, it is definitely off white to yellow from the side).


This is a stone I always liked on OWD''s site for those looking for a light yellow OEC in a larger size for a sorta reasonable price: Light Yellow OEC It''s 2.31 carats, a champagne-ish light yellow, and according to Adam (yeah, I called & asked) eyeclean at SI2 with a really sparkly cut, no nailhead even though it hovers on the shallowish side. The price is not bad, I think... after finding my 3.55 ct OEC it looks high to me now, but I think it is actually pretty decent. I sure stared at it enough!

Little Grey Kitten--

I was looking at Old World Diamonds, too, and am glad that you had a good experience with them. That makes me feel more comfortable about purchasing stones from them. I love that LY OEC that you found. If only it were in my budget. I have my eye on a U-colored OMC--but I hesitate to post a link b/c I don''t want someone to buy it from under me--because it seems to have a nice balance of body color and cut. It is on the smaller side (1.25 carats but very deep, I think the depth is around 80 or so, so faces up only 6 mm). A 3.55 carat OEC would be something to die for.

Both of your OEC stones sound just gorgeous. What did you do with them? I can''t remember if I''ve seen it in the SMTR thread? Are they both rings or did you do other things with them?

 

[ericad]

I'm also a low color lover (my own e-ring is an M/N), so I definitely understand the charm and value they offer to buyers (and IMHO, the colored light play can't be beat!) Just make sure that if the price is based on a grade of M, for example, and it's a fair price, you are in fact getting an M or better. If what you're actually getting is a P, while you may still love the low color, you probably overpaid. In antique diamonds, color plays a VERY large part in pricing.

 

[kimikocat]

Date: 6/20/2008 11:23:32 AM
Author: ericad
I''m also a low color lover (my own e-ring is an M/N), so I definitely understand the charm and value they offer to buyers (and IMHO, the colored light play can''t be beat!) Just make sure that if the price is based on a grade of M, for example, and it''s a fair price, you are in fact getting an M or better. If what you''re actually getting is a P, while you may still love the low color, you probably overpaid. In antique diamonds, color plays a VERY large part in pricing.

Hello Erica,

Thank you for that insight. Will definitely keep that in mind as I look for stones. I am always surprised to see how many old stones are graded J/K or better, and I wonder what happened to all the O/P stones.

What part does clarity play? And do the labs grade cut for OMCs/OECs/Antique cushions?

 

[purrfectpear]

I think that it''s hard to beat Old World''s pricing on Old Mine and Old Cushion cuts, but Erica''s pricing on OEC''s is more than competitive. For some reason Old World is high on the OEC pricing IMO. Singlestone is just high, period. Ditto Faye Cullen. It''s nice to have several places to drool over beautiful stones.

 

[surfgirl]

Date: 6/20/2008 6:53:39 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I think that it''s hard to beat Old World''s pricing on Old Mine and Old Cushion cuts, but Erica''s pricing on OEC''s is more than competitive. For some reason Old World is high on the OEC pricing IMO. Singlestone is just high, period. Ditto Faye Cullen. It''s nice to have several places to drool over beautiful stones.

Pear, Single Stone''s prices aren''t really that expensive at all. You get a different level of quality there and well, you get what you pay for, I''m afraid. Ari has usually has an amazing selection of high quality antique stones and yes, they''ll be more than the others you mentioned but he seems to have a higher quality of stone (better color, clarity, cut, etc.) hence you are always going to pay more for that. However, compared to other places I''ve seen that have very high quality antique stones, SS''s prices are pretty competitive. It''s all relative.

 

[LGK]

Kimiko, the two OECs I have are rings; one is in an antique platinum filigree setting, the other larger one is in a triple halo contemporary setting that I never would have chosen myself but it''s what it came with... I did have a couple of threads on them, back there somewhere. The larger one I got a steal on and I talked the husband into it on the basis of selling it. But of course once you see something like that the inner Gollum comes out and it''s pretty tough to part with! I''ve been trying to sweet talk the boy into keeping it. (Evil, yes I know!) The larger one is a right hand ring I wear on my left, and the other is my e-ring, that I wear on my right hand. (I tried it opposite, but I banged the larger one around too much on my right hand.)

Singlestone I definitely got a good feeling about when I was shopping- Ari was very knowledgeable and helpful, and was the ONLY person willing to answer an email out of all the places I contacted. As far as OWD''s pricing goes, I think it can vary quite drastically. Some stones seem really high, the occasional one is low or very reasonable. Just a matter of searching I think. Erica & Grace definitely have some gorgeous merchandise too. I''ve drooled over many, many of their stones!

Good luck with your search; I adore your 2 carat one, it is just gorgeous. I don''t think any girl can go wrong with a couple of OECs to play with. I hope you don''t let the larger one you have gather dust in your jewelry box

 

[kimikocat]

Date: 6/21/2008 2:20:22 AM
Author: LittleGreyKitten
Kimiko, the two OECs I have are rings; one is in an antique platinum filigree setting, the other larger one is in a triple halo contemporary setting that I never would have chosen myself but it''s what it came with... I did have a couple of threads on them, back there somewhere. The larger one I got a steal on and I talked the husband into it on the basis of selling it. But of course once you see something like that the inner Gollum comes out and it''s pretty tough to part with! I''ve been trying to sweet talk the boy into keeping it. (Evil, yes I know!) The larger one is a right hand ring I wear on my left, and the other is my e-ring, that I wear on my right hand. (I tried it opposite, but I banged the larger one around too much on my right hand.)


Singlestone I definitely got a good feeling about when I was shopping- Ari was very knowledgeable and helpful, and was the ONLY person willing to answer an email out of all the places I contacted. As far as OWD''s pricing goes, I think it can vary quite drastically. Some stones seem really high, the occasional one is low or very reasonable. Just a matter of searching I think. Erica & Grace definitely have some gorgeous merchandise too. I''ve drooled over many, many of their stones!


Good luck with your search; I adore your 2 carat one, it is just gorgeous. I don''t think any girl can go wrong with a couple of OECs to play with. I hope you don''t let the larger one you have gather dust in your jewelry box

LGK--I searched the threads to see your 2 OECs. Oh, there''s nothing evil about sweettalking your boy into letting you keep the larger ring. Tell him if nothing else, you''ll sell it to a Chinese multimillionaire. I think there''s always going to be a market for luxury goods. The economy''s gone global now. You might have to move around to find your clients, but you''ll find someone somewhere, sooner or later.

I''ve corresponded with Ari before--he is very knowledgeable and kind. Old cut pricing seems less consistent than prices for modern cuts, but that''s also to be expected.

I didn''t realize you work in the antique trade. How fun! That explains why you''re drawn to old pieces. For my part, I studied art & have always been drawn to the old things. And I collect, too, though different things than you. We have lots of 19/20 century pieces, American, because my guy loves American vernacular design. When I got engaged I got all the family pieces and that was a real treat! Neat old silver... Not nearly as pedigreed as your pieces, but neat in the sense that when you set them out, you can really "feel" the history. I like that.

I read your story about your search for a Van Craeynest setting, and the sticker shock that came with it. I''m convinced that many jewelers mark up Van Craeynest stuff until it''s so ridiculously expensive that no sane person would buy one The base price is high, due to the work involved, and now metal prices are absurd, but the quotes that I''ve received from jewelers suggest that they''re taking that base price and multiplying it... Which is a shame! I''ve visited Larry in SF and he''s a sweetheart, a real artist at heart. I really love your antique setting! So your story ended well, after all. It''d be funny if your original deco wedding set popped up one day. That''s happened to me before. I squirrel important things away and then find them again, much later. When you find them, don''t forget to stage a photo shoot.