OEC--is this the dreaded fish eye?

[Laila619]

For educational purposes, what causes this effect in the center of this OEC? Is it fish eye or leakage? Pardon the dirty stone. Thanks!

 

[Circe]

Looks like a nailhead/leakage to me ... A fisheye has more of a bullseye appearance.

 

[Laila619]

Looks like a nailhead/leakage to me ... A fisheye has more of a bullseye appearance.

Ahh, yes, that makes sense. It says nailheads are caused when a stone is too deep? Thanks, Circe.

 

[TitanCi]

Could it just be tilt/camera angle/how the diamond is sitting on your finger? I know this is an OEC, but Karl had me take a picture of the stone I had before against a bright red background (you saw that thread). I punched a little hole in a few sheets of red paper and had the culet sit in it. Then I snapped a picture straight on... that could help you determine how bad the leakage is (if it's there)

Do OECs leak light in general (vs. modern cuts?)

 

[Mara]

I've seen that in a lot of traditional OEC's... I think of it as head obstruction, but it's not always present. Do the facets light up in other lighting sources or further away from your head or are they always dark.

 

[yssie]

Yeah - no fish eye.
Looks like windowing, actually? Are you seeing skin at that tilt angle through the pav or is it just my screen doing funky things to the colour?

 

[Laila619]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

Yssie, I honestly can't tell if that's skin showing through the window or not, because when I put brightly colored fabric behind the stone, I didn't see any of the colors showing through. But then when it's on my hand, you can clearly see the flesh color in the middle. It's odd.

 

[Laila619]

I've seen that in a lot of traditional OEC's... I think of it as head obstruction, but it's not always present. Do the facets light up in other lighting sources or further away from your head or are they always dark.

The darkish middle is there most of the time, but sometimes it seems to light up.

 

[Laila619]

Could it just be tilt/camera angle/how the diamond is sitting on your finger? I know this is an OEC, but Karl had me take a picture of the stone I had before against a bright red background (you saw that thread). I punched a little hole in a few sheets of red paper and had the culet sit in it. Then I snapped a picture straight on... that could help you determine how bad the leakage is (if it's there)

Do OECs leak light in general (vs. modern cuts?)

I think well-cut ones shouldn't. I would think obstruction would be more common? The nice ones we see on PS look amazing though!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Not fish eye. Looks like leakage and maybe some obstruction.

Yssie isn't windowing basically just uber leakage?

Laila all the OECs I have owned -- save one -- showed leakage to some degree. I can post some photos that show it later if you like. Even really well cut OECs will have it to an extent I think. It all depends how hard you look for it. The cut is not about perfection, as you know. My 7mm keystone has leakage under the table. It is not too bad, but because I know what it is I can see it. But it is balanced by really amazing faceting to view up close in dim lighting (a very personal way of viewing a diamond), hardly any obstuction issues, and really nice bold contrast patterning accross the face of the stone. The patterning is what I love about OECs rather than overall light return. I also love a super high crown giving the stone a full and 3 dimensional look. So for me, the plusses outweigh the minuses.

When looking at old cuts, if you are an analytic person, I think there is a little of that type of cost-benefit analysis that accompanies owning this type of stone. For me, when I see an OEC I trust my first gut response because my eyes are well trained, and then do a more throgh analysis later which is less about deciding if it well cut or not but more about learning about its unique personality and deciding if we are compatible

 

[yssie]

Not fish eye. Looks like leakage and maybe some obstruction.

Yssie isn't windowing basically just uber leakage?

Laila all the OECs I have owned -- save one -- showed leakage to some degree. I can post some photos that show it later if you like. Even really well cut OECs will have it to an extent I think. It all depends how hard you look for it. The cut is not about perfection, as you know. My 7mm keystone has leakage under the table. It is not too bad, but because I know what it is I can see it. But it is balanced by really amazing faceting to view up close in dim lighting (a very personal way of viewing a diamond), hardly any obstuction issues, and really nice bold contrast patterning accross the face of the stone. The patterning is what I love about OECs rather than overall light return. I also love a super high crown giving the stone a full and 3 dimensional look. So for me, the plusses outweigh the minuses.

When looking at old cuts, if you are an analytic person, I think there is a little of that type of cost-benefit analysis that accompanies owning this type of stone. For me, when I see an OEC I trust my first gut response because my eyes are well trained, and then do a more throgh analysis later which is less about deciding if it well cut or not but more about learning about its unique personality and deciding if we are compatible

Yup.
And yup.
My OECs and my smaller antique cushions have not lost their capacity to drive me nuts. They refuse to be pigeonholed, and I like pigeonholes.

 

[Laila619]

Not fish eye. Looks like leakage and maybe some obstruction.

Yssie isn't windowing basically just uber leakage?

Laila all the OECs I have owned -- save one -- showed leakage to some degree. I can post some photos that show it later if you like. Even really well cut OECs will have it to an extent I think. It all depends how hard you look for it. The cut is not about perfection, as you know. My 7mm keystone has leakage under the table. It is not too bad, but because I know what it is I can see it. But it is balanced by really amazing faceting to view up close in dim lighting (a very personal way of viewing a diamond), hardly any obstuction issues, and really nice bold contrast patterning accross the face of the stone. The patterning is what I love about OECs rather than overall light return. I also love a super high crown giving the stone a full and 3 dimensional look. So for me, the plusses outweigh the minuses.

When looking at old cuts, if you are an analytic person, I think there is a little of that type of cost-benefit analysis that accompanies owning this type of stone. For me, when I see an OEC I trust my first gut response because my eyes are well trained, and then do a more throgh analysis later which is less about deciding if it well cut or not but more about learning about its unique personality and deciding if we are compatible

Thanks, Dreamer.

Strangely, I love and adore OECs on other people, but I don't think the buttery warmth suits my skin tone at all. I just don't think I have seen a killer OEC in person yet, because my modern RB 3 stone ring was way out-sparkling this stone. Sending stones back over time will add up though! Ah well. Maybe I should move on to cushions.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Well, first, as you know, the buttery tone has nothing to do with the cut! That is body color and it a separate issue.

Second, old cuts just are not the blazing white light, fast scintillation machines that modern RBs are. They are subtler, more glisteny, slower... more like step cuts in some regards in how the wearer can appreciate them. You simply may not like OEC optics! They are not a replacement for RBs, but a different cut all together.

All that said, my three stone with OECs is as eye catching as my Aurora and has optics that rival it. So perhaps you are not seeing particularly well cut examples. Would you like help in your search?

 

[Laila619]

Well, first, as you know, the buttery tone has nothing to do with the cut! That is body color and it a separate issue.

Second, old cuts just are not the blazing white light, fast scintillation machines that modern RBs are. They are subtler, more glisteny, slower... more like step cuts in some regards in how the wearer can appreciate them. You simply may not like OEC optics! They are not a replacement for RBs, but a different cut all together.

All that said, my three stone with OECs is as eye catching as my Aurora and has optics that rival it. So perhaps you are not seeing particularly well cut examples. Would you like help in your search?

With my budget, I'll probably only be able to get K, L, M, N, etc. I'm very fair and pink, and I think the warm cream color clashes with my skin.

Definitely agree I have not seen well-cut examples IRL! This stone was an estate stone from a local jeweler. It didn't have all those pastels and chunky flashes like I see on PS.

 

[Mara]

Some of those pastels could just be lighting in the pictures too. My stone performs very differently in diff lighting situations. I was thinking today that my stone actually performs it's best in the sunlight, diffused sunlight or natural lighting. Diffused and natural much like MRB's but this stone is amazing in sunlight whereas my MRB never really impressed me much in direct sun.

Someone asked on another thread if I'd seen an ASET of my new stone. I mentioned that I don't think that most of the ways we'd critique a modern stone would be beneficial to these old stones. Even the BEST looking OEC"s I've seen have some leakage...either along the edges or in the table or both. But as DD mentioned, it's that PATTERN that will draw you in. You either love it or you don't. For me the pattern is like the end all to be all. I can get over lots of other things in the stone because chances are that particular pattern in that stone cannot be found in any other stone anywhere, period. Some patterns don't speak to me as much as others. It's such a personal decision--part of the fun of the old cut!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Some of those pastels could just be lighting in the pictures too. My stone performs very differently in diff lighting situations. I was thinking today that my stone actually performs it's best in the sunlight, diffused sunlight or natural lighting. Diffused and natural much like MRB's but this stone is amazing in sunlight whereas my MRB never really impressed me much in direct sun.

Someone asked on another thread if I'd seen an ASET of my new stone. I mentioned that I don't think that most of the ways we'd critique a modern stone would be beneficial to these old stones. Even the BEST looking OEC"s I've seen have some leakage...either along the edges or in the table or both. But as DD mentioned, it's that PATTERN that will draw you in. You either love it or you don't. For me the pattern is like the end all to be all. I can get over lots of other things in the stone because chances are that particular pattern in that stone cannot be found in any other stone anywhere, period. Some patterns don't speak to me as much as others. It's such a personal decision--part of the fun of the old cut!!

Yes yes yes. Agree with it all.

Perceiving pastels in diamonds are 100% the result of a) the environment and b) the size of the facets. It is not something magical about certain diamonds. Any well cut stone will show pastels when there are pastels in the environement! And a chunkier cut that has larger facets appears to show more because you have larger flat surfaces relfecting the color. I have pink/cream skin so when I look at my stones and my skin reflect -- PASTELS! No mystery there. They look lame in other lighting too.

My favourite lighting is sitting in a room with a window and natural light and no other light source. The diamons glisten and you can really see the faceting. Interestingly, that was also where I liked my RB best.

I also find my OECs look good in bright sunlight. They light up blue from the sky! Really cool.

What is your budget Laila?