NYT live election forecast

[Gypsy]

Then why vote for Hillary? She condoned her husband's "behavior".

Forgiving someone is not the same as condoning their behavior. That is just... a fallacy.

Forgiving a loved one is an act of compassion. It does not make you complicit in their behavior. You can love someone, you can condemn their behavior and STILL forgive them.

I can't type more without getting banned forever on here.

It's ok Gypsy. No amount of explaining will work. Maybe time and experience will allow for more wisdom.

((HUGS)) my friend. You are right.

 

[Gypsy]

Have you ever sat at a loved one's bedside when they are in the ICU, just watching the heartbeat monitor and WILLING each next beat into being with everything in you? That's exactly how I feel.


This is just... devastating. And so, so very sad.

 

[iLander]

We've been hacked.

That's my contention. IT's just too much of a mis-match. Too much. The polls can't be this far off. Especially Utah, Florida, Pennsylvania. States that Obama carried? WTF? The Obama voters became Trump voters? No.

What will Trump do? I think we will "join Russia to fight ISIS". Then we will not back NATO. Then we will become Allies with Russia.

Why do I think that?

Because that's the only thing Trump has been consistent on throughout: Russia/Putin not bad, why can't we fight ISIS with Russia, not sure Russians are actually hacking, NATO needs to pay their way.

It's a Russian coup. No question.

Remember when I posted that we were at war with Russia? FACTS: We sanctioned them, froze their international assets, cut off access to their international banks, sanctioned them and plunged the price of oil because they make a ton of $$$ on oil. Even the price of diamonds has dropped. So they put a guy dumb enough to do their bidding in the White House.

Canada here I come. At least DH can get healthcare.

Seriously. Mark my words.

 

[yssie]

I guess the coming together won't start here on PS.

I don't think it will, red

There are ideologies I honestly just don't understand, so fundamentally that I wouldn't know where to start. The amount of racism, sexism, genuine hatred that have been central to everything surrounding Trump and his campaign from the beginning is just too much for me to want to stomach or condone. And whilst it would probably behoove me to vote conservatively from a fiscal perspective... I have never been able to look past a social ticket.

This really is Brexit Part II.

 

[upgradingmama]

I guess the coming together won't start here on PS. Stay nasty if that is what you are.

I don't think it will, red

There are ideologies I honestly just don't understand, so fundamentally that I wouldn't know where to start. The amount of racism, sexism, genuine hatred that have been central to everything surrounding Trump and his campaign from the beginning is just too much for me to want to stomach or condone. And whilst it would probably behoove me to vote conservatively from a fiscal perspective... I have never been able to look past a social ticket.

Agree completely. I imagine most of us on a diamond forum could be financially better off with Trump... but as a registered republican I could not fathom having a narcissistic unqualified bigoted jerk running this country. Hold on for a scary ride... what on earth do I tell my kids in the morning?

 

[Gypsy]

I guess the coming together won't start here on PS.

Redwood. I am too... everything to speak anything but bluntly.

What I am seeing tonight? What we are experiencing as a country?

I do not think a coming together is POSSIBLE.

If things are so far gone that a demagogue like Trump is elected as our leader... we are irrevocably lost and broken.

And what we need to heal?

We do not have it.

So this divide? It's just going to get bigger.

 

[AdaBeta27]

... And when our economy is completely destroyed, when the global economy has been dragged down with it, when women are second-class citizens and minorities come in a far third and gay families have been torn apart, when we've ballooned the deficit beyond all prayer of repair to "keep 'em outsiders out!!" with immigration policies borne of xenophobia...

Yes, they'll have been heard.

Where I live, the economy was completely destroyed in 1977 - 1984, pulled itself up remarkably from maybe 2004-2007, and got smacked down flat by the 2008-008 election and severe economic downturn. Old heavy industry suffered under the Obama administration. Economic stimulus money and all that did not help. More educated people left, because they don't want to work $10/hr home health aid jobs or be sitters in group homes for the mentally retarded, or work as prison guards, or be a part-time no-benefits retail sales associate. When well-paid heavy industry jobs in metals an automobiles and Westinghouse transformers and GE locomotives were lost, those sh!t jobs that I mentioned were the ONLY thing that replaced them.

Women have always been second-class citizens where I live. It's, frankly, a peasant Catholic culture around here. No education, no real drive or ambition, too many kids, stuck in the '50s people. And since the men lost the heavy manufacturing jobs and are now directly competing with women for whatever jobs are still here, it's been bad for women. It's so bad that sometimes a male will get hired over a better qualified woman, because it's presumed that the MAN is the primary wage-earner of a FAMILY, but the WOMAN provides just a supplemental income for her FAMILY, and that women can just drop out of the workforce and and free up a job for a man who "needs it more." Try being a single, child-free women in that crappy environment, and you'll find you get passed over a lot. So, don't presume that women didn't vote for Trump over Hillary just because Trump at least acknowledges that life has turned to sh!t for a lot of people since the 2008-2009 recession, if things were not already in the toilet before then. My parents got a heck of a deal on their house back in the late '60s because the couple who owned it were relocating. The wife wanted to attend law school, and at the time could not get accepted in the region's law schools due to age and gender discrimination, but she did get accepted in California. SSDY. They are just as biased and anti-woman now as then. This Rust Belt region has always been staunchly Democrat. Obviously, the citizens of today have opted to try a different tack. Women never actually got their equal rights in some places, and this region is one. Women in farm country seem to think they have been treated as subordinates and breeders for too long, too. Women want some good jobs to come to their regions so that they can earn enough to be at least earn an adequate living that a single person can live independently on. $10/hr jobs just don't provide enough money for even 1 person, even in a rural area.

I don't see how gay families will be torn apart. There have always been gay couples and gay families. I think gay marriage is a can of worms that not even fundamentalist Christians can successfully re-can, and gays have really nothing to worry about because Trump will have bigger fish to fry. I don't agree that we should keep all outsiders out, but I do think we have already taken too much "wretched refuse" and Trojan horses, and need to be far more strict on the illegal immigrants and less amenable to low-skill / no-skill immigrants in general, because we do seem to have a huge surplus of poorly educated low-skill / no-skill native-born citizens and not enough low-skill manufacturing and manual labor jobs to place them in. (Less than 9% of adults over age 25 have a 3 year college degree in Youngstown, OH. Less than 18% or so in neighboring counties.)

Having 8 years of Obama as POTUS did absolutely nothing to improve my earnings or job security. I honestly don't know how that guy ever got re-elected, because he was one of the least effective Presidents, ever, imo. Obamacare was not a boon to me. I have no preexisting conditions, and the plans offered to me were more expensive and offered less benefits than what I cold purchase through a former employer's "retire medical." That retire med plan was very portable and affordable, when I started in 2008. It cost me around $375 then. After Obamacare, I got this year's notice that the new premium is $729/month, for one healthy adult! That's a house payment! For healthcare insurance that I never made a claim on! To Hades with that.

 

[redwood66]

I guess the coming together won't start here on PS.

I have to be honest, I don't think it will, red.

There are ideologies I honestly just don't understand, so fundamentally that I wouldn't know where to start. The amount of racism, sexism, genuine hatred that have been central to everything surrounding Trump and his campaign from the beginning is just... I don't understand it and I can't see past it. And whilst it would probably behoove me to vote conservatively from a fiscal perspective... I have never been able to look past a social ticket.

Of course, both sides are voting primarily on social issues, and are in complete opposition on them! This really is Brexit Part II.

I have really tried to understand people in opposition to my views here. GYPSY and I are the only ones that I saw who actually laid out in plain English what our views actually are and what is most important to us. I wish more people had done that so I could see and listen. Too much name calling and arrogance which gets us nowhere as a nation. Liberals must understand that social issues are not at the top of the list of issues for most conservatives and that fact does not make us racist or xenophobic or intolerant.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Two words that cause HC the election...Corruption and lying.

 

[Dancing Fire]

It is like watching a funeral on MSNBC.

 

[redwood66]

I guess the coming together won't start here on PS.

Redwood. I am too... everything to speak anything but bluntly.

What I am seeing tonight? What we are experiencing as a country?

I do not think a coming together is POSSIBLE.

If things are so far gone that a demagogue like Trump is elected as our leader... we are irrevocably lost and broken.

And what we need to heal?

We do not have it.

So this divide? It's just going to get bigger.

I hope not my friend. I truly hope not. If he wins, his acceptance speech will set a tone and I hope it is gracious and nothing else but uplifting.

 

[Gypsy]

I wish more people had done that so I could see and listen. Too much name calling and arrogance which gets us nowhere as a nation. Liberals must understand that social issues are not at the top of the list of issues for most conservatives and that fact does not make us racist or xenophobic or intolerant.

I agree about the bolded part. But when you add the red part to that last sentence. It breaks my brain. I understand what you are trying to say: that indifference to social issues is just indifference to you. That it is... not a crime.

We have a leader endorsed by the KKK. That is a crime.

This is exactly how Hitler and Stalin happened.

I know most conservatives think us liberals are being dramatic by saying that. But you and I, as you said, have a had good dialog. I am not being dramatic. I am genuinely, as a PATRIOT, terrified by the similarities.

And even more terrifying is the fact that he will have a Republican Congress.

Also, part of me wonders, genuinely, if his own party is going to assassinate him so we can have President Pence.

 

[redwood66]

I wish more people had done that so I could see and listen. Too much name calling and arrogance which gets us nowhere as a nation. Liberals must understand that social issues are not at the top of the list of issues for most conservatives and that fact does not make us racist or xenophobic or intolerant.

I agree about the bolded part.

But Red... this is exactly how Hitler and Stalin happened.

I know most conservatives think us liberals are being dramatic by saying that. But you and I, as you said, have a had good dialog. I am not being dramatic. I am genuinely, as a PATRIOT, terrified by the similarities.

And even more terrifying is the fact that he will have a Republican Congress.

Also, part of me wonders, genuinely, if his own party is going to assassinate him so we can have President Pence.

Now now, I was chided harshly for posting this months ago.

 

[Gypsy]

Now now, I was chided harshly for posting this months ago.

You were chided by me for joking that it would be a GOOD good outcome. A solution.

I do not believe ANY assassination of ANY of our leaders is a good thing. And I don't believe in joking about it. Which is what I said then.


If they do not go for assassination, they may chose just to impeach him. But I think they are going to try to get rid of him.


I edited my previous post above.

 

[Gypsy]

My husband says that tomorrow the stock market is going to go so far down that the safety measures are going to have to be used and the market will be frozen.

He is taking this worse than I am.

 

[Dancing Fire]

My husband says that tomorrow the stock market is going to go so far down that the safety measures are going to have to be used and the market will be frozen.

He is taking this worse than I am.

It is already happening in the future trading. The Dow will likely to open at -700 points in the morning.

 

[the_mother_thing]

It is already happening in the future trading. The Dow will likely to open at -700 points in the morning.

Good time to buy.

I'm an optimist.

 

[Laila619]

Two words that cause HC the election...Corruption and lying.

Yep. Sanders would have been better. He had the likeability factor, and he appeared to at least be honest.

 

[AnnaH]

We pulled money out of the market on Friday following our banker's advice. So people in the know are not surprised. The market will settle. Not trying to sound like I have money or know much about money because neither is the case. Just repeating what others have said.

As to a President Trump, he wasn't my first or 15th choice either, but we will survive him if that's what happens. I have many thoughts, but will hold them for now. People are too upset.

 

[Dancing Fire]

We pulled money out of the market on Friday following our banker's advice. So people in the know are not surprised. The market will settle. Not trying to sound like I have money or know much about money because neither is the case. Just repeating what others have said.

As to a President Trump, he wasn't my first or 15th choice either, but we will survive him if that's what happens. I have many thoughts, but will hold them for now. People are too upset.

We survived 4 yrs of J. Carter.... We will survive 4 yrs of Trump.

 

[VRBeauty]

Now now, I was chided harshly for posting this months ago.

You were chided by me for joking that it would be a GOOD good outcome. A solution.

I do not believe ANY assassination of ANY of our leaders is a good thing. And I don't believe in joking about it. Which is what I said then.


If they do not go for assassination, they may chose just to impeach him. But I think they are going to try to get rid of him.


I edited my previous post above.

I've speculated on trump being impeached before, but I wasn't counting on GOP majorities in both the house and senate. I don't see it happening with both houses controlled by the GOP... at least not in the near term.

There were also many prominent members of the GOP who spoke out against trump, with some going so far as to endorse Clinton. I wonder whether that sentiment will coalesce into a movement, or will they decide to "take the win" and try to make the best of the trump presidency?

 

[Arcadian]

I guess America wanted their reality tv, so.......

 

[Gypsy]

Redwood, this sums it up for me:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/opinion/election-night-2016/the-unknown-country




We still don’t know who will win the electoral college, although as I write this it looks — incredibly, horribly — as if the odds now favor Donald J. Trump. What we do know is that people like me, and probably like most readers of The New York Times, truly didn’t understand the country we live in. We thought that our fellow citizens would not, in the end, vote for a candidate so manifestly unqualified for high office, so temperamentally unsound, so scary yet ludicrous.

We thought that the nation, while far from having transcended racial prejudice and misogyny, had become vastly more open and tolerant over time.

We thought that the great majority of Americans valued democratic norms and the rule of law.

It turns out that we were wrong. There turn out to be a huge number of people — white people, living mainly in rural areas — who don’t share at all our idea of what America is about. For them, it is about blood and soil, about traditional patriarchy and racial hierarchy. And there were many other people who might not share those anti-democratic values, but who nonetheless were willing to vote for anyone bearing the Republican label.

I don’t know how we go forward from here. Is America a failed state and society? It looks truly possible. I guess we have to pick ourselves up and try to find a way forward, but this has been a night of terrible revelations, and I don’t think it’s self-indulgent to feel quite a lot of despair.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Millions and millions of americans are tired of being unemployed.

 

[arkieb1]

Wow, well I hope all the conservatives and rednecks out there are happy, it's still day time in Australia and globally our stock market is in freefall, 35 million dollars wiped from the Australian stock market in one day and it is happening all around the world - they are saying Trump as president will be worse than Brexit, which I predicted, but many are too stubborn to listen.

My husband said the last time someone with similar policies and a similar personality was in power it was when J.Edgar Hoover was elected and it is claimed he used the FBI as his own secret police force and economists claim some of his policies were in part responsible for the Great Depression. So strap yourselves in for a wild ride folks if you thought it was hell in a handbasket under Obama, as they say in the US, "you aint seen nothing yet".....

 

[arkieb1]

Millions and millions of americans are tired of being unemployed.

So a corrupt lying misogynistic cheat who underpays Mexican and other workers that has gone bankrupt on numerous projects, and shafted people and lied about it, and has no experience in politics but is an obviously great reality TV star is going to save you all? Is going to somehow create employment by giving tax concessions to big businesses and to the rich? Was probably the guy that paid off the FBI to release the whole Hillary email thing even though they had to admit they have nothing they can release to the general public on her......

The rest of the world doesn't know if we should be laughing at you or crying with you.

 

[Gypsy]

Millions and millions of americans are tired of being unemployed.

So a corrupt lying misogynistic cheat who underpays Mexican and other workers that has gone bankrupt on numerous projects, and shafted people and lied about it, and has no experience in politics but is an obviously great reality TV star is going to save you all? Is going to somehow create employment by giving tax concessions to big businesses and to the rich? Was probably the guy that paid off the FBI to release the whole Hillary email thing even though they had to admit they have nothing they can release to the general public on her......

The rest of the world doesn't know if we should be laughing at you or crying with you.

I've been unemployed for 17 months, DF. No excuse for this.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Millions and millions of americans are tired of being unemployed.

So a corrupt lying misogynistic cheat who underpays Mexican and other workers that has gone bankrupt on numerous projects, and shafted people and lied about it, and has no experience in politics but is an obviously great reality TV star is going to save you all? Is going to somehow create employment by giving tax concessions to big businesses and to the rich? Was probably the guy that paid off the FBI to release the whole Hillary email thing even though they had to admit they have nothing they can release to the general public on her......

The rest of the world doesn't know if we should be laughing at you or crying with you.

I didn't vote but my wife did.

 

[mochiko42]

Observing all this from overseas made me want to reread Edward Gibbon's "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire".

 

[arkieb1]

Millions and millions of americans are tired of being unemployed.

So a corrupt lying misogynistic cheat who underpays Mexican and other workers that has gone bankrupt on numerous projects, and shafted people and lied about it, and has no experience in politics but is an obviously great reality TV star is going to save you all? Is going to somehow create employment by giving tax concessions to big businesses and to the rich? Was probably the guy that paid off the FBI to release the whole Hillary email thing even though they had to admit they have nothing they can release to the general public on her......

The rest of the world doesn't know if we should be laughing at you or crying with you.

I didn't vote but my wife did.

DF, I am not attacking you personally but, this is the same type of response as Brexit, I didn't vote so it wasn't me. When your stockmarket crashes at the opening of trade tomorrow, when Trump has no idea how to defuse the growing almost cold war like stalemate that has been going on with China for many months now in the Pacific, it's a bit late to say oh but it wasn't me.....