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Numbers with Fancies

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Egon

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
18
After much lurking, reading, discussion at my local brick and click and an acutal
purchase of (in my opinion) a nice princess cut diamond I would like to pose
for discussion a question about how we look at fancy cut stones. After doing my homework I went in to look at and eventually purchase a stone that I would not have
considered if I only had the numbers to go by. While I don''t have a Sarin to go by, according to the GIA cert the stone would be a max of a 3A according to the charts
linked to from this site. Yet in person you can see the stone from across the room
and it lights up like a torch in sunlight.

All that being said, is there a better way to try and evaluate fancy cut stones when
you can''t see them in person? While the BScope, IdealScope, FireScope and such are
used by a few vendors online, that seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Certainly the people who run online stores can make suggestions to a potential buyer,
but I have heard and read stories of buyers who absolutely had to have a stone of certain dimensions and then didn''t like the appearance and the sale was lost.

Any thoughts/ideas/things in the works on using ray trace information like GemCalc, analysis of minor as well as major facet dimensions, more extensive modeling of internal interactions etc that might make it easier for the consumer to make an informed decision without being able to see a stone live?



$.02
 

dimonbob

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Dec 12, 2000
Messages
670
Most of the experts here highly recommend the eye-ball-test
When we sell a diamond, on paper, we make certain recommendations before we bring it in, we have the diamond sent to us and we check it ourselves. We check to make sure the cert and the stone are the same, we check the SI1s and others to make sure they are eye clean and we check for beauty. If the diamond is a weak performer, why send it to a customer? One of the big problems is the customer might be expecting something as bright as the tip of a welding rod. They open the package just outside of the FedEx office in the sunlight and disappointment. First impressions are hard to overcome. Bright sunlight is not kind to diamonds.
After you do the eye-ball-test in all kinds of lighting including some jewelry store make your decision. If the diamond is not for you, that is what an inspection period is for. Send it back. Remember, you are saving major buck by buying an e-diamond.
I think all the vendors here on pricescope.com are trying to give the customer the best that he can. We may all compete but we cannot survive if we do not make our customers happy.
 

Egon

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
18
I certainly agree with you on the eyeball test. I guess the point I was trying
to make was that perhaps there is a slight over-emphasis on the numbers when it
comes to fancy cut stones. I submit to you the following scenario:

I, as a potential customer, e-mail you or any of the number of vendors who are
represented here and say I'm looking for a well cut 1 ct D-F VVS-VS princess
cut diamond in a certain price range. The vendor of choice responds saying "I have
this great looking stone that falls within your budget and desired qualities. Here
is the information on the stone" I look at the cert/Sarin and whatever information
is provided and notice that the stone in question has a slightly large table, ~75
for the sake of argument. Since I participate in the forum, I post a "What do you
think of this stone?" post and a couple of posters respond with "Table is way too big,
go for something smaller." At this point, one of two things can happen

1) I (or whom-ever) decide to trust the vendor who has the stone in front of them. These folks are not going to want to waste their time shipping stones back and forth and as several folks have pointed out in the past, you live and die by your reputation with online businesses and a forum such as this one disseminates info very quickly.
The stone is ordered received, end customer is happy and life is good. Story ends.

or

2) Potential customer says "Hey. Several people are telling me the table on this stone
is to large. I don't want it. What else do you have?" The power of public opinion is very great. This not only prolongs the purchase process, it also MAY cause the customer to pass on a stone that they would be perfectly happy with. This can also cause vendors to lose sales because as I said before, someone absolutely HAD to have a stone with dimension X.

Scenario 2 doesn't really do anyone any good, but it would not suprise me if it happens.

Additions/Deletions/Questions/Comments?
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,275
Hi Egon,

Your question is an excellent one and one that really needs to be addressed however the time it would take to devise a "formula" even similar to the HCA for princess cuts is far from being done. This is why each and every fancy shape (especially princess cut) must be analyzed.

I do however have a way of being able to communicate (not just from a subjective eye ball test) how brilliant or how terrible a princess cut may be or any shape for that matter and it involves the technologies you bring up. And I can do this without saying "trust me" becuase a diamond that stands up to one person's eye ball test may be thought differently than anothers. As you know I'm one who places heavy emphasis on optical analysis as a great optical analysis will always result in a very beautiful diamond. And there is a new way to present this analysis even before the diamond is called in and any expenses laid out. Unfortunately the hardware/software is not cheap and there are very limited suppliers who even have it (I am already working with some).

I am already developing a page on the subject but certain people here get upset even if I post links to my site that are educational so if you'd like to review the webpage that is in developement (ironically I use princess cuts as my example in this excercise, and one with a table that is larger than it's total depth) so if you drop me an email I'll be happy to share this new educational content. It's pretty exciting.

Peace,
Rhino
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,275
And I would add that you are 100% correct that an overemphasis is placed on certain numbers. I have princess cuts that fall into the 3x range on the AGA chart that if people were strictly looking at numbers would turn it away. Some of them happen to be some of the most beautiful princess cuts they'd ever see in this lifetime. The numbers DO NOT tell the whole story and it was wise of you to bring that out.

Peace,
Rhino
 

Colored Gemstone Nut

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
2,325
but certain people here get upset even if I post links

Hey Jonathan-I don't want to really get into any kind of argument and don't want to start anything, but your main purpose in posting links is to educate the consumer. The numbers and your sales speak for themself along with your reputation. Please don't be dissuaded in doing this in the future to help all of us.

Peace-
Josh Rioux
Sitka, Alaska
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,275
I appreciate that Josh. I think everyone here knows I'm not here pitching but the last time I posted a link for educational purposes I was warned, my link taken down and my page was copied and pasted here by Leonid. I don't want to break any rules here so I don't do it. I think it's primarily one person here who is the whiner. It sucks becuase it discourages me from sharing some excellent educational content that would be too much work to put it both here and on our site. Matter of fact I just did some finishing touches to the page. Drop me an email Josh and I'll send you the link, I believe you're going to love it.


Peace,
Rhino
 
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