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Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire BAD

Discussion in 'Hangout' started by whitewave, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. Arkteia
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    by Arkteia » Apr 15, 2019
    Devastated. I remember seeing the reliquaries in 2015. Made some photos, some of these items have been destroyed by fire.
    It has been standing since 12th century and survived the French Revolution, but did not survive the blowtorch of the 21st century.

    French TV has asked for donations. Here is the link. They are tax deductible

    www.notredamedeparis.fr/friends/donate/
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
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  2. kipari
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    by kipari » Apr 16, 2019
    One firefighter was severely injured.

    Praying for his or her full and swift recovery. The firefighters of Paris are an elite unit (there are nationwide contests to get a spot in their training program, then you commit to living in their barracks with your family as long as you're in active duty). They really know what they were doing in order to minimize damage to the structure and interior of the building, manage the crowds and ensure the fire won't spread into the rest of the Ile de la cité. I am always deeply moved by their courage and willingness to put others before their own life.


    I am sure the cathedral will be restored to it's full splendour. France might be the only place in the world with Italy where you still have the artisans to rebuild this. I am not talking scientists/custodians/restaurators. They have the carpenters for the woodwork, the masons, etc. They keep records of everything. Every mould, every pattern you name it. I can have an original 1750 wallpaper pattern and matching fabric from a place in my town. They will be able to do this!!

    The experts are not yet allowed into the building, but as far as I know the reliquiaries have been saved.
    No news regarding the stained glass windows.
    They said just putting up the scaffolding took about a year ... So it's going to be a long costly process... The current works on the spire were estimated 150 m € (and experts knew they 'd probably be going way over that budget). So every donation counts!
     
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  3. missy
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    by missy » Apr 16, 2019
    https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/notre-dame-fire/index.html


    The fire was an accident.

    Why the fire was difficult to extinguish.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/15/europe/firefighters-notre-dame-intl/index.html


    Yes they will. It is a great loss but they will restore it to its former glory.
     
  4. kipari
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    by kipari » Apr 16, 2019
    There are still different reports (ranging from three to one) regarding injured police officers and firefighters in the news , but it seems like there were no life-threatening injuries. Thank goodness!

    The estimations for the restauration are going into the billions... Atm the main question seems to be where to get the wood from . 3000 top quality oak trees ... The understructure of the roof was called "the forest" because of the massive amount of wood used.
     
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  5. AGBF
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    by AGBF » Apr 16, 2019
    Thank you for your helpful updates, kipari.

    They have been offered help by the Vatican. Italy, also, has many ancient churches. I am not knowledgeable about restoration, but, most unfortunately, this fire is slowly teaching me. We may all be about to get a crash course in monuments and restoration.

    "VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican is willing to offer technical restoration know-how to help rebuild and restore the devastated cathedral of Notre-Dame, the Holy’s See’s culture minister said on Tuesday.

    'I think one of the greatest contributions the Holy See can make ... will be above a technical one because we have, for example, the Vatican Museums,' Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi told reporters.

    'We have the type of know-how that the whole world recognizes as being of a high quality. That is why I think an eventual future offer by the Holy See will be significant. We could take part in some specific areas (of restoration).'”

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-notredame-vatican-idUSKCN1RS10B
     
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  6. AGBF
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    by AGBF » Apr 16, 2019
    I was curious about what help might be offered by The Vatican Museums, so I did a small (tiny) amount of research. Here is a link to their website for anyone else who is interested. As I said above, I know nothing about restoration, so I was completely bowled over at the amount of knowledge and expertise on restoration of art and antiquities that seemed available at The Vatican!!!

    http://www.museivaticani.va/content/museivaticani/en.html
     
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  7. AdaBeta27
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    by AdaBeta27 » Apr 16, 2019
    Even if it wasn't an accident, I applaud France for declaring it one, as an up-yours to whomever is vandalizing and desecrating churches. If it was a crime and not an accident, what better way to screw over the perps than to give them ZERO public recognition for destroying such a prestigious landmark! Go, France! Round up the usual suspects, lol. And conduct the real investigation in private.
    https://www.getreligion.org/getreligion/2019/4/10/is-it-a-story-if-french-churches-are-vandalized
     
  8. kipari
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    by kipari » Apr 16, 2019
    Thanks AGBF. Very informative!With this massive project all help is so badly needed.

    The French take pride in their heritage and there a very successful TV show that "secrets d'histoire" with Stéphane Bern. They don't only focus on historical events and personalities, but also often the buildings too. Very interesting to watch. The restauration experts have access to most original plans. We saw a segment with an upholstery expert who recreated all fabrics from the great palaces on historical looms. Everything is handmade according to the historical techniques. This is why I'm so confident that they will restore everything up to the highest academical standard. Including the actual masonry /carpentry/stained glass/any historical fabrics.

    There's even an archeological building site in France, where they build a medieval castle solely with the knowledge /tools of the time.
    https://www.guedelon.fr/fr/saison-2019_287.html

    It's experimental archeology and leads to a deeper understanding of the technology at the time and ultimately better restoration.
    We went with our children last year. They LOVED it.
     
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  9. missy
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    by missy » Apr 16, 2019
    Yes but it makes me and many others feel better knowing it was an accident. I agree let's not give the terrorists any more of the publicity they hunger for and I know many of us hope it was indeed an accident. Let's hope that is what the final investigation will prove.
     
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  10. kipari
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    by kipari » Apr 16, 2019
    Given that they were working on the roof and the fire started there, I find it most likely that it's indeed an accident. Think short circuit on tools or even a burning cigarette or a piece of glass that acted as a loupe....
     
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  11. AdaBeta27
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  12. kipari
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    by kipari » Apr 17, 2019
    The interior of Notre Dame actually looks good given the circumstances. They also saved the windows. Now they need to stabilize the flying buttresses. Trying to share a video later...
     
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  13. missy
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    by missy » Apr 17, 2019

    Inside:



    Screen shot:

    Screen Shot 2019-04-17 at 6.05.32 AM.png


    Drone view

     
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  14. kipari
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  15. missy
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    by missy » Apr 17, 2019
    I'm so glad they are going to be able to rebuild and are getting the money necessary to do so.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...e-minister-money-not-a-problem-for-notre-dame

     
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  16. AGBF
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    by AGBF » Apr 17, 2019
    Thank you for posting this, AdaBeta. I looked at the site. I try to stay aware. Places of worship are always targets. Look at the mosques in New Zealand and the black churches just burned down in New Orleans. Like missy, I am praying that the fire in Notre Dame is what it appears to be, however, an accident. At the moment it is uniting what was a very fractured France.

    AGBF
     
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  17. Arkteia
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    by Arkteia » Apr 19, 2019 at 1:37 AM
    Actually, there have been many positive articles praising the work of the firefighters. The roof is old wood, it was destroyed,but the rest of the building has been not as damaged by fire as initially expected. And the firemen did everything by the book.
     
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  18. Arkteia
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    by Arkteia » Apr 19, 2019 at 1:45 AM
    My question is, should wood be even used given that it burned so easily? I was very much afraid that the fire would spread to nearby buildings, as the center of Paris is rather compact.
     
  19. kipari
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    by kipari » Apr 19, 2019 at 11:44 AM
    They said that they'll look into all alternatives, but the whole structure was built by the master masons of the time to support a wooden structure, so changes might not be possible due to the understructure. Most importantly master craftspeople /masons and engineers need to determine whether the stones are still structurally intact. High heat can apparently alter (crumble) the inner structure of natural stones, without it being visible from the outside. There has been gathered a lot of expertise around this during the rebuilding of the Frauenkirche in Dresden. The Master craftspeople and engineers of this project have given their opinion on German TV and I'm sure they will support their French colleagues.
     
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  20. Arkteia
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    by Arkteia » Apr 19, 2019 at 11:51 AM
    Interesting that you mentioned Frauenkirche. Dresden was literally melted to the ground. I visited it in 2002, when they were just restoring it, and in 2017. I would say, the restoration is amazing, and I would advise people to visit it, especially since it is inexpensive. However, the masters did use a lot of newer materials, it is obviously seen in the theater.
     
  21. kipari
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    by kipari » Apr 19, 2019 at 1:27 PM
    Yes, the temperatures were higher in Dresden, but the expert said that the effect could have taken place on Paris as well. Since they changed so much of the understructure, they had more freedom of choice for the rest of the materials in Dresden. Notre Dame will be an interesting challenge for most artisans /engineers /restaurators . I hope it's going to be an international project and truly a flagship for European / international partnership in science.
     
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